#1
This is not a question, it's a discussion basicly.

I don't want us to discuss the diatonic and pentatonic hybrid scale. cause it's very simple.

I've recently read about hypermodes and scales. It's combining two scales with the same tonic togther.
for example imagine playing a mix between Aeolian and Phrygian. and not over their main chords like Pitch Axis theory, but playing them togther and doing thransitions by using the commen notes between them.
for example

E phrygian is E F G A B C D E
E Aeolian is E F#G A B C D E

so the hybrid scale is E F F# G A B C D E

I'm a guitarist and I'm arab and well infromed in oriental music theory, and we do that ALOT, since oriental music is mostly based on melody we make alot of "modal" changes!

for me it sounds very good, tell me what do you think?
what other hybrid modes, scales do you know and find intresting ?

Another discussion:
If you tried the Pitch Axis Theory.
what transitions betwee diffrent modes do you find beautiful.
I've heard from many people that Major nature modes ie Ionian, Lydian and Mixollydian are "smoother" to switch between that switching between the Major and minor modes. and Minor nature modes from the other hand are also smoother to move between.

But I'm talking about switching between major and minor modes.
for example I think that Inonian to Phrygian is awfully ugly !!!
lydian to phrygian is filled with emotion ..

what abotu you ?
Last edited by obay at Jul 18, 2010,
#3
Dorian and Aeolian over a minor blues. Phrygian in place of Dorian can work depending on the lick or melody you play, and how it fits with the underlying chord progression. For something cool, try the flat 5th of the Locrian bent up or hammered to the 5th and then the minor third, to resolve a phrase.
#4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borrowed_chord

"Mode mixture" is employed in most rock music, although usually it's those between ionian and aeolian, rarely going outside (either way) to lydian or phrygian.
IOW, rock regards a "key" as a fair game mix of material from the parallel major and minor scales.

The most common sound is probably a mix of the central two modes (in the bright-dark spectrum), mixolydian and dorian. This gives the standard b7, and both 3rds, to encompass the variable "blue 3rd". You can also see this scale as combination of the major and minor pentatonics.
Seriously, there is nothing whatsoever exotic in this! It's standard practice in rock music and has been for at least 50 years.

What would be unusual (and more exotic) would be to venture more into either lydian or phrygian, or simply to use chords a lot less and melodic material a lot more.
Once you abandon chords (normal ones anyhow) then you open yourself up to more "ethnic" kinds of scale, such as ragas and maqams. There are probably 100s of those, in contrast to the European collection of 7 (maybe 9 if you include harmonic and melodic minor, which we don't use as scales in their own right, but for that reason you'd need to exclude locrian).

In fact you could see the usual minor key scales (natural, harmonic and melodic minor) as a "mode mixture" practice enshrined in classical music for some centuries. One scale with variable 6th and 7th.
Rock (inspired by blues) just extends that to having a variable 3rd too.
Last edited by jongtr at Nov 14, 2015,
#6
Modes are a way to think about grouping chord-centric notes together. You're right in the sense that it is 'dressing it up' to talk about these Greek names. However, when you can think in terms of a group of notes that produce a certain sound (and you can learn that pattern of notes in different positions in the guitar neck), you can then start to apply those to certain chords. Its really then that you get this amazing change in the harmonic/melodic center of the music.

So in short, modes are a template. The template groups certain notes into a scale. That scale works over certain chords related to melody and soloing.
#7
this is the root of much confusion to new players that hear the word "mode/modal" and cant relate it to diatonic based harmony.."..D minor sounds like C major ??" and rightfully so..to immerse yourself in a modal framework..you basically have to throw diatonic harmony away and embrace melodic structures in its place..not to say chords are not used but not in the tonal way as in diatonic harmony..they are "non-directional" as it were..just a sound to play over not a direction towards a goal..your THERE..the melodic sense of freedom this brings is the heart of improvisation..your not constrained by a harmonic structure directing you to play notes withing that structure and move to the next chord and do the same..

of course the "catch 22" is you "should" know diatonic harmony inside and out to be able to leave it behind..its the reason I don't get tired of hearing Kind of Blue..they are all playing melodies and not arpeggios and scales against chords..Blue in Green and Flamenco Sketches are studies in this kind of thinking
play well

wolf
#8
For anyone new to modes, I just found a really great two part lesson on YouTube by one of my favorite dudes, Rob Chapmann, or Chappers as he is known (also Monkey Lord).

Search the following titles:
Learn the modes In Just 15 minutes - Part One (Very easy lesson)
Learn The Modes In Just 15 minutes - Part Two
#9
yeah, modality is fundamentally a harmonic paradigm, not a melodic one. It makes no sense to look at modes strictly as scales.

It's adding way too much complication to throw in Pitch Axis mumbo jumbo. All you're doing is changing the mode over a droning root.
#10
Necrobump...
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#11
I found those videos extremely helpful. Also good if youre just new to modes to both understand their sound characteristics and be able to find them easily on the neck.
#12
A necrobump on a thread with one reply. Well, I'll be.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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