#1
i've been focusing more on classical lately, but since its near impossible to find any books or websites that actually teach it, i'm gonna spend my time continuing my jazz studies instead.
i know the swing rhythm, 2-5-1 progression, 3-6-2-5-1 progression, and a cheeseload of chords (maj7, dom7, min7, all the 9s and so on and so forth and if i need to i can always look up chords online).
and for lead stuff, i know chromaticism, arpeggios (idk if thats rlly considered lead tho), triad superimposition, octaves (feels like common sense, i'm just listing everything in the book i learned jazz from), chord tones (and whe to use them), and modes, but after reading the mode sticky thread on this forum, im not even sure if i'm using them correctly. i know a lot of exotic scales too, but the only one that i've applied to jazz situations is the jazz minor scale (ascending portion of melodic minor). can somebody suggest what i should look into next, because i'm kind of in a rut now.
oh and don't say key changes unless its something jazzspecific, i didnt list them because i dont know whether or not its used commonly in jazz, but either way, i use key changes all the time so telling me whether or not its usually used in jazz wont make a difference in how often i use them.
thanks for any help, and sory abt the huge wall of text, if u read the whole thing ur awesome !
#2
it sounds like you should spend a lot of time listening and transcribing. the modes sticky also discusses modes differently then most jazz teachers/players would. It discusses them as having implied resolutions and for use in modal music, rather then a collection of pitches to be deployed at the corresponding chord.
also practice your major, harmonic and melodic minor whole tone and diminished in diationic triads, seventh chords and by mode (alternating ascending, descending, ascending descending and descending-ascending).
#3
Quote by tehREALcaptain
it sounds like you should spend a lot of time listening and transcribing. the modes sticky also discusses modes differently then most jazz teachers/players would. It discusses them as having implied resolutions and for use in modal music, rather then a collection of pitches to be deployed at the corresponding chord.
also practice your major, harmonic and melodic minor whole tone and diminished in diationic triads, seventh chords and by mode (alternating ascending, descending, ascending descending and descending-ascending).

im kinda stuck with the listening part, my ears aren't that great. i can kinda hear/understand different intervals, but not too well. and transcribing means putting a song into a different key right? like moving it a certain amount of frets higher or lower to change the key?
#4
Quote by TMVATDI
im kinda stuck with the listening part, my ears aren't that great. i can kinda hear/understand different intervals, but not too well. and transcribing means putting a song into a different key right? like moving it a certain amount of frets higher or lower to change the key?

That's transposition. Transcribing is writing down what you hear going on.

This is really your next step, honestly. Just start training your ear.
#5
Quote by DiminishedFifth
That's transposition. Transcribing is writing down what you hear going on.

This is really your next step, honestly. Just start training your ear.

so i just write what i think they're playing? kinda like a test?
and then i guess i could use tabs to check my answers, like a calculator haha
#6
Quote by TMVATDI
so i just write what i think they're playing? kinda like a test?
and then i guess i could use tabs to check my answers, like a calculator haha

Well... learn some songs by ear. That's transcribing.

To check you could look up some lead sheets or tabs or something like that.
#7
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Well... learn some songs by ear. That's transcribing.

To check you could look up some lead sheets or tabs or something like that.

ok i guess ill do that
#8
start learning the heads to standards off good recordings and eventually, start with easy solos its hard and took me a while but is a neccesary skill and is very useful. also what i meant by listening wasn't anything special; just find recordings of jazz you like and listen to them.
#9
Learn ALL the possibly ways to play the maj7, min7, dom7, and half-diminished7. Do NOT rely on looking up these chords on the internet, for jazz is an improvised art.. you don't have the commodity of looking up these chords whenever you feel, you must know them and form them on the spot. I recently made a little packet of those four chords and their inversions, and I've got 16 ways to play each - 4 drop 2's starting at the fourth string, four drop 2's starting at the 5th string, 4 drop 3's starting at the 5th string, and 4 drop 3's starting at the 6th string. If you would like me to scan them, I will for ya. Realize however, that you will not really be simply memorizing every single chord.. if you know the maj7 chord in a certain position, you also the min, dom, and halfdim. For dom, lower the 7th of your maj shape, then lower the 3rd from there and you have min, then lower the 5th and you have half diminished. The utility of learning so many of these chords is to have them EVERYWHERE on the fretboard, so they are all readily available to comp whenever you are improvising or playing a melody, and you have so many combinations of intervals for your bass-line note, and what string you'd like to play it on, if you'd like to play it all.

In order to truly grasp certain progressions, learning jazz standards is paramount. Not only will you familiarize yourself with the chords and the progressions, you should be practicing your arpeggios throughout, various rhythms, how to apply licks to certain chords, and how to freely improvise over them. If you didn't want to woodshed every technique and concept you want to learn, working with standards is pretty much all you need, for it sums up everything for a jazz musicians. Start with a simple, popular standard such as Autumn Leaves. I suggest checking out Jim Hall's version on his album Alone Together. Transcribe the melody and what he plays up to about his first solo, and you've got the basics of Autumn Leaves, the ii-V7-I, various chords (You should practice the standard in many different positions to utilize and learn different ways to play the same chord).

When you are transcribing, don't simply write out the notes. Be sure you've got the basics of the rhythm being used, but take a lot of notes and the stylistic choices of the artist (doesn't have to be a guitarist at all, there's endless techniques to learn from all instruments). For instance, if I was transcribing Jim Hall's version of Autumn Leaves (which I have, and can scan for you if you'd like me to), I would write out what he's literally playing, then write out in words how he is playing. His overall tone and feel, I'm writing out what makes Jim Hall so cool, he's not simply playing the melody to the song, he's applying his own unique voice.

As for tabs, don't use them. Tabs are useless to the jazz artist, you should start learning to sight read.. it's helpful for any other genre as well. If you showed up to a jam session, all you should be given is a lead sheet with the chords written out on top, and the basics of the melody. You have to be able to recognize the rhythm of the melody, play it, as well as comp the chords on the spot.. tabs will not allow you to do that.

If you are serious about learning jazz, I suggest picking up Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book, which it seems like you already have? Just an observation from the material you are picking up, a lot of that is in the first few chapters. Also look into Berklee Press' A Modern Method. It is all sight reading, and slow at first, but it is very important material.. from sight reading, to technique, to chord shapes and rhythms.


Oh, and how's that for a wall of text :P
#10
lead sheets at a jam session?
i was raised to think of that as heresy.

seriously though, i really like the idea of writing down the feel of the transcription along with the notes, i think im going to do that with the next thing I learn.
#11
@kick2theovaries: ill transcribe that song and ill see if i need u to scan any of that. the book i have is hal leonard's "at a glance" series "jazz guitar." thanks, i actually read all that and i think itll come in handy haha
edit: okay my ears are working very hard to figure this out. can u tell me if it starts in the key of E? thats what i think but im probably wrong, my ears suck
edit: i think later i heard a D-something chord (isnt it sad that i couldnt even tell if it was major minor dominant or half-diminished?) so i think it went thru a key change if i was right abt E. I think it would be the key of D, G, or C
edit again: oh i think i got the introduction part! kinda...its a G, then some chromatic movement, and ending on D. the lick part in the beginning. so that would be the key of...i think...D...maybe...
edit (this is the last 1 ill wait for a reply this time i promise lol): i think i was a half-step off, so is it the key of D#?
Last edited by TMVATDI at Jul 21, 2010,
#12
I'm not near my sheet right now, but I know the chords in the melody are:

Cm7| F7 (dom7)| Bbmaj7| Ebmaj7| Ao (half-dim)| D7| Gm7 |G7

The bass player is pretty much arpeggiating those in the first minute of the song or so.

Give me a few hours and I'll come back with a scan for reference, don't study it too much! Just look at it to check your work.. BUT, mine is probably not perfect in terms of rhythmic notation
#13
ok, rhythm is what im best at cuz im really more of a drummer than a guitarist, i just learn a lot of instruments because i write all the songs for my band on all the instruments (dont let them have any freedom lol)