#1
Hi ,


I have put new strings on my Guitar ( Squier ) , and dicided to adjust Truss rod a bit , wasnt my surprise that the Bolt it self fell off ?! the actual truss rod seems to be OK , but how do i put the nut back in ?
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#2
If it unscrewed it should screw back on.
Gear
Jackson RR24M - EMG ALX w/ ABQ installed
Ibanez Xiphos - stock
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Ibanex RG - Tone Zone(bridge), PAF Pro(neck)
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Fulltone OCD
MXR 10 Band EQ
#3
yea..but how do i do it ? and besides , i wanna bow it forward , if i put it back on wont it just "unscrew" everytime i try to adjust it ?
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#4
honestly not really sure with a Squire.

With my Jackson there is no nut that will fall off.

Does the rod itself have a spot to put your allen wrench in?
Gear
Jackson RR24M - EMG ALX w/ ABQ installed
Ibanez Xiphos - stock
LTD Alexi 600 - stock
Ibanex RG - Tone Zone(bridge), PAF Pro(neck)
Blackstar HT-20H
Fulltone OCD
MXR 10 Band EQ
#6
Ah, so yours adjusts from near the PU's then.

I will be of no help...sorry...never messed with a guitar that adjusts from that end.

Someone on here should be able to help soon though.
Gear
Jackson RR24M - EMG ALX w/ ABQ installed
Ibanez Xiphos - stock
LTD Alexi 600 - stock
Ibanex RG - Tone Zone(bridge), PAF Pro(neck)
Blackstar HT-20H
Fulltone OCD
MXR 10 Band EQ
#7
Quote by srob7001
Ah, so yours adjusts from near the PU's then.

I will be of no help...sorry...never messed with a guitar that adjusts from that end.

Someone on here should be able to help soon though.



No , it ajusts on the top of the neck , i just put that image for u to see what fell off..
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#8
Please im desperate...i think i will try to send it back to warranty if possible.
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#10
Try taking it into a shop and see what they say.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#11
So you loosened the truss rod to the point where the end fell off. Screw it back on until it just touches the wood, which is just before any adjustment should start having an effect.
Now, obviously loosening it again will just have it fall off again. What you need to do at this point is assess your neck relief to see what kind of adjustment is required. It's doubfull that you have zero relief or up bow with no truss rod tension applied.
Fret at the Low E 1st Fret and Low E 17th Fret at the same time and look at the distance between the bottom of the string and the crown of the 7 or 8th fret. Do this with the guitar in playing position if possible (and tuned to pitch of course).
Post back what you see.
Moving on.....
#12
I cant seem to screw it back in , tough im trying , but the strings buzz a bit ( new strings as i said ) and i need more relief , so if i screw it back on , it will fall again , how do i get more relief ?
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#14
DOn't just asume you need more relief. Also it sounds like you took all your strings off at once to change them. There's nothing wrong with that but the neck relief quickly dissappears when you do that as there's no counteracting force against the truss rod. Then when you install the new strings it actually takes quite a bit longer to return to normal (sometimes a couple of days in extreme cases).
This often makes people conclude incorrectly, that new strings buzz.
Moving on.....
#15
Quote by KenG
DOn't just asume you need more relief. Also it sounds like you took all your strings off at once to change them. There's nothing wrong with that but the neck relief quickly dissappears when you do that as there's no counteracting force against the truss rod. Then when you install the new strings it actually takes quite a bit longer to return to normal (sometimes a couple of days in extreme cases).
This often makes people conclude incorrectly, that new strings buzz.



I say this because i put the capo on the 1st fret , and finger on the last , and check the midle fret , and it has about half a credit card of measure, and my top E and A strings have the action setup really high for it not to buzz.
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#17
what gauge strings?

what type bridge?

can you really, no longer hand tighten the cap back onto the rod?

you need to get it on there. so if you went too heavy on the string gauge and found your limitation on the rod. perhaps different set of strings is the answer on that particular guitar.

i do suggest you try to hand tighten the cap back onto the rod either way.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#18
Me and a friend managed to get the bolt back in and its working ( tightning at least ) but now if i want more relief, how do i do it ? knowing that if i rotate counter clockwise it will come off again.

I use .09 , i used it before.
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#19
Quote by ricardo_sousa11
Me and a friend managed to get the bolt back in and its working ( tightning at least ) but now if i want more relief, how do i do it ? knowing that if i rotate counter clockwise it will come off again.

I use .09 , i used it before.



k. sorry, after seeing your last post, i thought you wanted LESS relief.

a half a credit card is already enough relief.

did you raise the bridge yet?
i see you're saying the action is high.

where's the buzz? is it possible that the nut was cut too low? or that you have a high fret?

and yeah, you won't be able to turn that rod counter clockwise.
so if it's new...


edit: if it's not new and you're stuck with the guitar, and you want more relief,
then you'd have to go the other way and put on 10s.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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Last edited by jj1565 at Jul 27, 2010,
#20
Quote by jj1565
k. sorry, after seeing your last post, i thought you wanted LESS relief.

a half a credit card is already enough relief.

did you raise the bridge yet?
i see you're saying the action is high.

where's the buzz? is it possible that the nut was cut too low? or that you have a high fret?

and yeah, you won't be able to turn that rod counter clockwise.
so if it's new...


edit: if it's not new and you're stuck with the guitar, and you want more relief,
then you'd have to go the other way and put on 10s.



It has about 2 years , but warranty covers up to 3 so i guess i'd better send it to the store :S since i cant touch the truss rod it can give me more problems in the future.
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#22
I don't think anything is wrong with your truss/neck. If you can get a half CC thickness (which is more than enough) relief with the truss fully loose (nut screwed on just to point of resistance) when strung with 9's then the truss/neck is fine. This isn't all that uncommon, actually. I personally set most of my guitars around .2 to .25MM of relief which is a good deal less than half a CC ~.37mm (a CC is .75mm thick).

It's possible you might have a twist in the neck. Check relief on both the low AND high E sides and make sure it's the same (or really close) on both sides. If not then the neck has a twist to it.

That squier probably also has some low/high frets as well. Pretty much any guitar under $400-500 will have some low/high spots from the factory. Yours might be all over the place. Google fret rocker to see how to check for uneven frets and then see if you can chalk up your buzzing issue to bad fret work.
#23
Quote by webwarmiller
I don't think anything is wrong with your truss/neck. If you can get a half CC thickness (which is more than enough) relief with the truss fully loose (nut screwed on just to point of resistance) when strung with 9's then the truss/neck is fine. This isn't all that uncommon, actually. I personally set most of my guitars around .2 to .25MM of relief which is a good deal less than half a CC ~.37mm (a CC is .75mm thick).

It's possible you might have a twist in the neck. Check relief on both the low AND high E sides and make sure it's the same (or really close) on both sides. If not then the neck has a twist to it.

That squier probably also has some low/high frets as well. Pretty much any guitar under $400-500 will have some low/high spots from the factory. Yours might be all over the place. Google fret rocker to see how to check for uneven frets and then see if you can chalk up your buzzing issue to bad fret work.



The point is , the "Screw" of the truss rod is not stuck to it , idk if i should glue it. speaking of action , i have my action on the Low E ( Bass ) at 5mm from the last fret and it still makes some buzz on the next fret that I am playing. On the High E (trebble) i have around 1.5mm from the last fret.

I think 5mm is way to much . I will google it btw
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#24
you can't glue it. i thought that would be obvious enough.

if you glue the cap on, then you can't adjust the cap.

if you wanted more relief for whatever reason, and the rod can't be turned that way, then you'd have to change string gauge.

i don't know what the "next fret i am playing" means. or if the buzz transmits through the amp, but,

if you're getting buzz in the first few frets, even though you have enough middle gap, then you need to check for a low cut nut, or high fret, like said.

you can always fret the buzzing string between the 2nd and 3rd fret, see if it rests on the 1st fret. (indicating a low cut nut.)

or check with a short straight edge for a high fret.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#25
Quote by jj1565
you can't glue it. i thought that would be obvious enough.

if you glue the cap on, then you can't adjust the cap.

if you wanted more relief for whatever reason, and the rod can't be turned that way, then you'd have to change string gauge.

i don't know what the "next fret i am playing" means. or if the buzz transmits through the amp, but,

if you're getting buzz in the first few frets, even though you have enough middle gap, then you need to check for a low cut nut, or high fret, like said.

you can always fret the buzzing string between the 2nd and 3rd fret, see if it rests on the 1st fret. (indicating a low cut nut.)

or check with a short straight edge for a high fret.


Ill try to explain better, Imagining a Strat , what is "loose" is the nut where you would normally adjust you're truss rod.

Is it normal to be loose ? If so , what am i doing wrong ? what do i need to do to get a bit more relief ?

I am using .009 , yes i have been told to use .010 and i will try that. The Buzz is , for example if im playing on the 1st fret i have some buzz on the 2nd , if im playing on the 10th , i have some buzz on the 11th.
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#26
i understand and am very sorry, and completely understand that the cap popped off at it's max turn, leaving yo unable to add additional relief.

swap one string at a time for the 10s. post back if it's more playable.

i asked you a few other things up there, if you want to add more info...

like what type of bridge, are these strings fresh, does the buzz transmit through the amp.

if the action is too high, and you're barring chords (for example), and not doing a clean job because of the action, then you'll get fret buzz along the board.

hopefully, the thicker strings will allow you to lower the action at the (hopefully) balanced bridge.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#27
Quote by jj1565
i understand and am very sorry, and completely understand that the cap popped off at it's max turn, leaving yo unable to add additional relief.

swap one string at a time for the 10s. post back if it's more playable.

i asked you a few other things up there, if you want to add more info...

like what type of bridge, are these strings fresh, does the buzz transmit through the amp.

if the action is too high, and you're barring chords (for example), and not doing a clean job because of the action, then you'll get fret buzz along the board.

hopefully, the thicker strings will allow you to lower the action at the (hopefully) balanced bridge.


I managed to put the nut back in , and its screwing properly , but still if i screw or unscrew will just mess with the nut itself and not the bar.

These strings are new , have about 1 day , the Buzz does not transmit through the amp ( dunno why ) , the Bridge is a regular Squier Strat type .
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#28
Havent anyone here changed the Truss rod Nut ? After so , what do you do to start working again ?
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#29
Quote by ricardo_sousa11
I managed to put the nut back in , and its screwing properly , but still if i screw or unscrew will just mess with the nut itself and not the bar.

These strings are new , have about 1 day , the Buzz does not transmit through the amp ( dunno why ) , the Bridge is a regular Squier Strat type .



break the strings in a little, they've only been on about a day.

buzz that DOES NOT transmit thru the amp is NOT considered a problem.


edit: also, i notice you're saying it's a squire strat. i guess you mean trem (moving bridge?)
i'm asking because if the bridge is lifted up at its ass end, it might be adding to your high action issues.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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Last edited by jj1565 at Jul 28, 2010,
#30
First you should understand how the one-way truss rod in a Squier is installed and how it works. It is installed into the neck with a slight curve as pictured below:


When the nut on the rod is tightened it will attempt to straighten the rod, hence bending the neck backward.

Ideally, if there is no tension on the nut/rod, the neck should be dead straight when unstrung. Once strung, the strings pull the peghead of the guitar up towards the heel causing a bow. The truss is then tightened to counter the pull of the strings to straighten the neck back out to the proper amount of relief. It's a one-way rod, because it can only counter the effect of the strings. It cannot create additional bow beyond what the string tension can produce on its own.

Now, there is an inherit flaw with this type of one-way rod. As mentioned earlier, the rod is installed with a slight bow. Since this is a metal rod it is already applying some force against the neck as the rod wants to be straight. With such construction, the neck might have some amount of backbow when unstrung. Hopefully, when strung, the string's tension is more than enough to counter the above and pull the neck forward enough to create enough relief. This is normally the case and the truss needs to be tightened at least a little. This is true of your guitar. With no tension on the truss nut you have more than enough relief when strung with 9's. You simply need to tighten the truss nut enough that it isn't loose (stop when it quits turning completely freely and then give it an 1/8 turn or so).

FWIW, I've seen more than a couple of guitars that cannot get proper relief with the truss completely loose. One, the owner simply upped his string guage on that particular guitar and was OK. Another I leveled/dressed the frets with the neck in a slight back bow....this created 'built-in' relief as their would be releif in regards to the fret tops even thought the neck itself was dead straight. In extreme cases, the frets need to be pulled and the fretboard itself re-leveled and radiused.

Now, that that is out of the way..... 5mm of action is SUPER high. I set up most of my guitars with 1.6 on the low E and 1.2 on the high E (measured at the 15th fret). Neck relief set between .2-.3 mm depending on the particular guitar. Granted I level/dress my frets, but even with fresh out of the box $100 cheapie I can usually get them to play cleanly with action of around 2.0 mm low E, 1.6 mm high E. They might have fret buzz on a couple of frets due to unusually high/low frets; but, for the most part, they will play cleanly up and down the neck Just to be super clear, action/relief is meaused from the fret TOP to the BOTTOM of the string.....I've seen people incorrectly measure from the fretboard and/or top of the string.
Last edited by webwarmiller at Jul 28, 2010,
#31
Note the TS measurements were at the last fret not the 12th, 15th or 17th this would give a higher measurement than expected (see post #23)
Moving on.....
#32
Quote by webwarmiller
First you should understand how the one-way truss rod in a Squier is installed and how it works. It is installed into the neck with a slight curve as pictured below:


When the nut on the rod is tightened it will attempt to straighten the rod, hence bending the neck backward.

Ideally, if there is no tension on the nut/rod, the neck should be dead straight when unstrung. Once strung, the strings pull the peghead of the guitar up towards the heel causing a bow. The truss is then tightened to counter the pull of the strings to straighten the neck back out to the proper amount of relief. It's a one-way rod, because it can only counter the effect of the strings. It cannot create additional bow beyond what the string tension can produce on its own.

Now, there is an inherit flaw with this type of one-way rod. As mentioned earlier, the rod is installed with a slight bow. Since this is a metal rod it is already applying some force against the neck as the rod wants to be straight. With such construction, the neck might have some amount of backbow when unstrung. Hopefully, when strung, the string's tension is more than enough to counter the above and pull the neck forward enough to create enough relief. This is normally the case and the truss needs to be tightened at least a little. This is true of your guitar. With no tension on the truss nut you have more than enough relief when strung with 9's. You simply need to tighten the truss nut enough that it isn't loose (stop when it quits turning completely freely and then give it an 1/8 turn or so).

FWIW, I've seen more than a couple of guitars that cannot get proper relief with the truss completely loose. One, the owner simply upped his string guage on that particular guitar and was OK. Another I leveled/dressed the frets with the neck in a slight back bow....this created 'built-in' relief as their would be releif in regards to the fret tops even thought the neck itself was dead straight. In extreme cases, the frets need to be pulled and the fretboard itself re-leveled and radiused.

Now, that that is out of the way..... 5mm of action is SUPER high. I set up most of my guitars with 1.6 on the low E and 1.2 on the high E (measured at the 15th fret). Neck relief set between .2-.3 mm depending on the particular guitar. Granted I level/dress my frets, but even with fresh out of the box $100 cheapie I can usually get them to play cleanly with action of around 2.0 mm low E, 1.6 mm high E. They might have fret buzz on a couple of frets due to unusually high/low frets; but, for the most part, they will play cleanly up and down the neck Just to be super clear, action/relief is meaused from the fret TOP to the BOTTOM of the string.....I've seen people incorrectly measure from the fretboard and/or top of the string.


A very insightful explanation , thank you very much.

So , my strings aren't pulling enough tension for the Truss rod to actually work , I will put some .010 strings in it and hopefully will fix. Should i take all the strings , tighten the truss rod screw a bit before putting new strings since it will have no pressure applied ? The action only got this high on this strings .009 , so it should be fixed with new strings.

Also , do you think .010 is enough ? or should it be .011 ?
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
Last edited by ricardo_sousa11 at Jul 28, 2010,
#33
Quote by ricardo_sousa11
A very insightful explanation , thank you very much.

So , my strings aren't pulling enough tension for the Truss rod to actually work , I will put some .010 strings in it and hopefully will fix. Should i take all the strings , tighten the truss rod screw a bit before putting new strings since it will have no pressure applied ? The action only got this high on this strings .009 , so it should be fixed with new strings.

Also , do you think .010 is enough ? or should it be .011 ?

No, your 9's ARE pulling enough as you are getting more than enough relief at half a credit cards thickness. If it less than a PLAYING cards thickness, then you might have an issue. Just tighten the truss nut enough that it has tension on it.

Adjust your action at the saddles to be 2mm low E and 1.6mm high E and then post back with any issues.
#34
Quote by webwarmiller
No, your 9's ARE pulling enough as you are getting more than enough relief at half a credit cards thickness. If it less than a PLAYING cards thickness, then you might have an issue. Just tighten the truss nut enough that it has tension on it.

Adjust your action at the saddles to be 2mm low E and 1.6mm high E and then post back with any issues.



With 2mm i have a lot of Buzz..?! I have it on 5mm to avoid buzz
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#35
Quote by ricardo_sousa11
With 2mm i have a lot of Buzz..?! I have it on 5mm to avoid buzz


I can only assume you have some REALLY bad fret work.....5mm of action is sky high. If I had the guitar in hand, it wouldn't take me long to tell you exactly what the problem is.

1. Check nut height. Lightly fret btw the second and third fret with finger closest to the second. This makes the string form a straight line btw the front edge of the nut and the top of the second fret. As such there should be a tiny gap btw the first fret and the bottom of the string. If the string is touching the first fret then you will likely have buzzing when that string is played open. This ONLY causes buzz when strings are played open.

2. Check relief. I initially set to .25mm (playing cards thickness) when setting up a guitar. I say initially because the particular guitar might play best with a little more or less relief as determined during play testing the guitar. I also 'sight' down the length of the neck on both sides and from both the headstock and bridge of the guitar. I'm looking for any twist or oddities in the neck.

3. Set action and intonation. I initially set up to 2.0mm and 1.6mm during a setup. I also check the fretboard radius and set the saddles on a strat's bridge to match that radius. You can easilly make little radius guages out of thin plastic (like a milk jugs).

4. Now the guitar is in a state where I can assess it's playability. I'll play chords and scales all over the neck. I'll play each and every note checking for issues. At this point it's very easy to tell if there are problems with the guitar. Most guitars (even dirt cheap ones) will play just fine with these std setup numbers. Occasionally a guitar will have a couple of really high frets or maybe some low ones. I'll notice them pretty quickly when play testing. I'll then verify using a fret rocker and tap down any high ones with plastic faced hammer.

5. At this point the guitar is completely playable but I'll try and tweak it a bit. If the guitar has more of a tendency to buzz on the lower frets than in the middle I'll add a a bit of relief.....the opposite and I'll take a bit out. I'm not concerned with the actual amount it ends up with....just how it plays. Same with the action....I'll try and set it to what feels best for that particular guitar.
Last edited by webwarmiller at Jul 29, 2010,
#36
a lot of times guys ask here because their guitar isn't playable wt "standard" settings.

i know what the books say, but some of these guitar aren't worth the tech's bill, you know?

that's why when you see me suggest the TS maybe switch to 10s, there's a reason...
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#37
I have bought .010 today, i will be putting them and trying everything out again..I will also reset the sadles for proper intonation and try to intonate with 2mm and 1.6mm
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
#38
UPDATES And happy

Got the .010 , and i could get to 1,2mm on the trebble side , and around 2mm on the bass side , really nice now , tough i think i can lower even more the bass side , i will be testing on to see which makes me more comfortable.

I am Intonating right now

Also i removed all the strings and tighten the Truss Rod so it is all fixed now finally got the hang of it

Thank you very much to everyone for you're help , specially jj1565 for the restringing advice with new Gauge

Thanks everyone you helped me with the setting up and i think i am happy now


EDIT: All strings intonated perfectly i be happy
Gear :Squier + Vypyr 15W / UCG102 + Picks = Awesomeness !
Last edited by ricardo_sousa11 at Jul 29, 2010,