#1
Hey guys I have a little question I would like to ask you. I was watching Danny Gills Essential Guitar Pure Theory Basics DVD and learned that in the scale of C major.

CDEFGAB

I can make a minor Chord by flattening the third note in the scale in this case E.
So that would make it a D# which means that C D# and G make a Cm chord right?

But the problem is when constructing chords a Bm chord in the key of G Major.

G Major has the notes:

GABCDEF#

Now B is the first, D is the third and F# is the fifth. So how can this be a Bm? I mean in C Major the third has to be flattened. So it would mean that the D should be D# in a Bm chord. So it is B D# F# instead of B D F#. I dont understand. The fifth is flattened in the Bm chord of the G Major Key instead of the third but still makes up a Bm. Why does this happen?

I hope your brains havent exploded by now. I hope you understand my question it's a really weird one. Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you all in advance.

-AxeThrowingCow
#3
This is quite a confusing post, i'll try to explain the chord construction since i didnt understand this at all, to make a major chord you need the tonic, the third and the fifth and for a minor chord the tonic the minor or flattened third and thte fifth.

What i didnt understand it was that thing of "constructing a Bm in the key of G" a B minor is a Bm in any key, and it is made of, B, F#, D

hope this somehow helps you
#4
Quote by Tim the Rocker
In order to make a Bm you have to start from the scale of B

B C# D# E F# G# A# B

Bm= B D F#


Ooooh, now it feels like gods hand slapped me in the back of my head. Of course it must be like that. Thanks man.
#5
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
Hey guys I have a little question I would like to ask you. I was watching Danny Gills Essential Guitar Pure Theory Basics DVD and learned that in the scale of C major.

CDEFGAB

I can make a minor Chord by flattening the third note in the scale in this case E.
So that would make it a D# which means that C D# and G make a Cm chord right?

But the problem is when constructing chords a Bm chord in the key of G Major.

G Major has the notes:

GABCDEF#

Now B is the first, D is the third and F# is the fifth. So how can this be a Bm? I mean in C Major the third has to be flattened. So it would mean that the D should be D# in a Bm chord. So it is B D# F# instead of B D F#. I dont understand. The fifth is flattened in the Bm chord of the G Major Key instead of the third but still makes up a Bm. Why does this happen?

I hope your brains havent exploded by now. I hope you understand my question it's a really weird one. Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you all in advance.

-AxeThrowingCow

i think you messed up what u were typing at 1 point, read over it and fix anything that looks weird to you because i dont understand what ur asking.

why are you making a Bm chord from the Gmaj scale? make it from the Bmaj scale (1, b3, 5) or Bmin scale (1, 3, 5), there's no reason to use a completely different scale.
#6
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
Ooooh, now it feels like gods hand slapped me in the back of my head. Of course it must be like that. Thanks man.


No problem, I had a hard time with this too when learning chord construction on the piano keys. And it's the same for guitar.
#7
Quote by TMVATDI
i think you messed up what u were typing at 1 point, read over it and fix anything that looks weird to you because i dont understand what ur asking.

why are you making a Bm chord from the Gmaj scale? make it from the Bmaj scale (1, b3, 5) or Bmin scale (1, 3, 5), there's no reason to use a completely different scale.


Because Danny said that the Bm fits in the G Major scale.
Only the notes from the G Major scale are the only ones that fit and only the chords with those notes too? Right?
Last edited by AxeThrowingCow at Aug 1, 2010,
#8
It sounds like you are learning a formula, ie: 1 b3 5 for a minor chord.

Ok, now all formulas are based off of a major formula. So G major has 1 3 5 and in this case it would be G B D ... from that point on you apply the formulas.

When you are in a key, say the key of G... all the notes in that scale are used for the chords and their construction... no need to alter anything unless you are adding custom extensions like b9 to a V chord for example. So all the chord formula's have already been applied within the scale so you won't have to change anything.

I said that twice, I know...
#9
Quote by evolucian
It sounds like you are learning a formula, ie: 1 b3 5 for a minor chord.

Ok, now all formulas are based off of a major formula. So G major has 1 3 5 and in this case it would be G B D ... from that point on you apply the formulas.

When you are in a key, say the key of G... all the notes in that scale are used for the chords and their construction... no need to alter anything unless you are adding custom extensions like b9 to a V chord for example. So all the chord formula's have already been applied within the scale so you won't have to change anything.

I said that twice, I know...


Thanks alot mate. But are these the only chords that fit in within the scale? The Chords that I can "extract" from the G Major scale are the only ones that fit right?
#10
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
Thanks alot mate. But are these the only chords that fit in within the scale? The Chords that I can "extract" from the G Major scale are the only ones that fit right?

Make a chord from every note of the scale. Those are the chords in G Major. Now, those aren't the only chords you can use, but your most likely to want to use those for where you're at in theory/playing/writing.
#11
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
I can make a minor Chord by flattening the third note in the scale in this case E.
So that would make it a D# which means that C D# and G make a Cm chord right?


Just a quick little mention; C minor is C Eb G.

D# is an augmented second above C while what you want is a minor third.
Last edited by Dodeka at Aug 1, 2010,
#12
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
Because Danny said that the Bm fits in the G Major scale.
Only the notes from the G Major scale are the only ones that fit and only the chords with those notes too? Right?

i get that its possible, i just dont see why he'd rather use Gmajor than Bmajor or Bminor
#13
Quote by TMVATDI
i get that its possible, i just dont see why he'd rather use Gmajor than Bmajor or Bminor


Because he was playing in G Major and wanted to show what Chords fit within that scale.
#14
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
Because he was playing in G Major and wanted to show what Chords fit within that scale.

that 1st post is really confusing...
I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viio, lower case mans minor, capitol means major, the "o" means diminished, those are the 7 degrees of the major scale, it doesnt change at all for what key you're in. in Gmajor, the chords are Gmajor, Aminor, Bminor, Cmajor, Dmajor, Eminor, F#diminished.
edit: and if your playing Gmajor starting on B instead of D, you're actually playing a minor scale (not THE minor scale, but 1) because the 3rd is ALREADY flattened for you, so you dont bother. if you were constructin Bminor from the Bmajor scale, the 3rd wouldnt already be flattened, so you'd need to do that but if you were doing the Bminor scale, the 3rd is already flattened so you just play the notes 1, 3, and 5. its probably a lot easier to just construct chords from intervals instead of scales, learn that.
Last edited by TMVATDI at Aug 1, 2010,
#15
Quote by TMVATDI
that 1st post is really confusing...
I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viio, lower case mans minor, capitol means major, the "o" means diminished, those are the 7 degrees of the major scale, it doesnt change at all for what key you're in. in Gmajor, the chords are Gmajor, Aminor, Bminor, Cmajor, Dmajor, Eminor, F#diminished.
edit: and if your playing Gmajor starting on B instead of D, you're actually playing a minor scale (not THE minor scale, but 1) because the 3rd is ALREADY flattened for you, so you dont bother. if you were constructin Bminor from the Bmajor scale, the 3rd wouldnt already be flattened, so you'd need to do that but if you were doing the Bminor scale, the 3rd is already flattened so you just play the notes 1, 3, and 5. its probably a lot easier to just construct chords from intervals instead of scales, learn that.


Thanks man.
Trust me im working hard with this theory stuff, but it's quite confusing and hard for the moment.
#16
Quote by AxeThrowingCow
Thanks man.
Trust me im working hard with this theory stuff, but it's quite confusing and hard for the moment.

It's pretty straightforward once you work with it for a while.

If you take any scale, ie C major.

C D E F G A B

...you can do the stacking thirds thing to derive all the chords in that key, so start on a note, skip a note, skip another note. It's called "stacking thirds" because each note is 3 scale degrees along from the previous one - remember the note you start from is counted too

C D E F G A B

starting on the root, the first chord is C E G which is a C major triad.

C D E F G A B

From the 2nd note you ged D F A which is a D minor chord.

That's deriving the chords that make up a particular key, they'll be chords you get from the notes within the scale.

However you can work out an individual chord simply by using the rules of chord construction. A major chord is a root, major 3rd and 5th, so from any note on your fretboard if you apply the major scale formula and add the 3rd and 5th notes of the scale (or octaves of them if it's easier to fit them in) you'll get the major chord of your root.

Likewise a minor chord is a root, minor 3rd and 5th, so to work out any minor chord you can either use the major scale as your base but flatten the 3rd, you can simply use the natural minor scale formula and add in the 3rd an 5th notes of the scale (that'll work because the natural minor scale contains a minor 3rd), or you can just use the major chord as your base, identify the 3rd and flatten it. They're all slightly different ways of doing the same thing, eventually it becomes second nature and you don't have to consciously count along scale steps or anything like that. When you stack the thirds along a scale all you're doing is pulling out notes that fit the rules of chord construction to give you the chords you want.
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#17
Quote by steven seagull
It's pretty straightforward once you work with it for a while.

If you take any scale, ie C major.

C D E F G A B

...you can do the stacking thirds thing to derive all the chords in that key, so start on a note, skip a note, skip another note. It's called "stacking thirds" because each note is 3 scale degrees along from the previous one - remember the note you start from is counted too

C D E F G A B

starting on the root, the first chord is C E G which is a C major triad.

C D E F G A B

From the 2nd note you ged D F A which is a D minor chord.

That's deriving the chords that make up a particular key, they'll be chords you get from the notes within the scale.

However you can work out an individual chord simply by using the rules of chord construction. A major chord is a root, major 3rd and 5th, so from any note on your fretboard if you apply the major scale formula and add the 3rd and 5th notes of the scale (or octaves of them if it's easier to fit them in) you'll get the major chord of your root.

Likewise a minor chord is a root, minor 3rd and 5th, so to work out any minor chord you can either use the major scale as your base but flatten the 3rd, you can simply use the natural minor scale formula and add in the 3rd an 5th notes of the scale (that'll work because the natural minor scale contains a minor 3rd), or you can just use the major chord as your base, identify the 3rd and flatten it. They're all slightly different ways of doing the same thing, eventually it becomes second nature and you don't have to consciously count along scale steps or anything like that. When you stack the thirds along a scale all you're doing is pulling out notes that fit the rules of chord construction to give you the chords you want.


Damn thats nice, thank you very much man. Thank you all by the way each and everyone of you. Very helpful community, maybe one day I will be one of the guys that help the newbies.