#1
I'm having a difficult time understanding some of the vocabulary and sentence structure in a book I own pertaining to the scale/chord relationship. I attached the image and highlighted in yellow what I am struggling with. I am understanding this in the key of C to make it simple.






          #2
          I think you may be overthinking it a bit, though I agree the wording is kinda confusing. I think the first point is just saying that you should use extended chords to keep from thinking just in terms of a pentatonic scale when you're soloing.

          The extension in the second part is just an extra note from the scale, but I believe what they mean by tension is that this extra note will sound bad sometimes.

          I think that entire Chord Scale section is just trying to explain modes, but, to be honest, its making my brain hurt a little. So I'm just going to ignore what the book says and tell you that a mode is basically a scale in the key (C major in this case) thats starts on a different note. Like starting and ending on the 2nd or 3rd note of the scale (D or E) instead of the 1st note (C).

          Yes, thats exactly right, you would play a C Major scale but start on D. (Though you shouldn't just play scales for your solo's, that would be boring. The point of a scale is so you know which notes will sound good.)
          #3
          I think it's simply too much information explained too concisely.

          Follow these basic rules;

          1. When in the key of C major, you are playing the C major scale, irrespective of what chord is played underneath. This applies to all keys, including the minors.

          2. Modes are different from scales, and this has to do with where the song resolves to. If you are in the key of C major, and play the C major scale starting on D, you are simply playing the C major scale starting on D. If you wish to play a D dorian scale, you should have a D dorian backing (For example D minor - G major (repeat) ). If you play the D dorian scale over that backing, you'll hear how it is different from the C major scale.

          There are other rules associated with modes, but drill it in that if you are in the key of C major, you will be playing the C major scale, irrespective of what many confused people are saying.

          I'd recommend that you should get used to the application of major and minor scales before venturing into modes, I'm not sure why the book has mentioned them here rather than in a separate later area.
          And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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          #4
          Quote by AlanHB
          I think it's simply too much information explained too concisely.

          Follow these basic rules;

          1. When in the key of C major, you are playing the C major scale, irrespective of what chord is played underneath. This applies to all keys, including the minors.

          2. Modes are different from scales, and this has to do with where the song resolves to. If you are in the key of C major, and play the C major scale starting on D, you are simply playing the C major scale starting on D. If you wish to play a D dorian scale, you should have a D dorian backing (For example D minor - G major (repeat) ). If you play the D dorian scale over that backing, you'll hear how it is different from the C major scale.

          There are other rules associated with modes, but drill it in that if you are in the key of C major, you will be playing the C major scale, irrespective of what many confused people are saying.

          I'd recommend that you should get used to the application of major and minor scales before venturing into modes, I'm not sure why the book has mentioned them here rather than in a separate later area.


          So this is a really novice question but I have very little understanding of music theory, and I've been trying to develop my knowledge of songwriting/solo writing as of recently.

          My question is, going off of what you said about, the key of C major, and the C major scale, if you were in C minor, would you play the C minor scale?

          Extending off of that, say that, you are playing a power chord progression as would be in most rock or blues music, could you play either the C major, or C minor scales?

          It's all just confusing to me...
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          #5
          Quote by mynameisdrakex
          So this is a really novice question but I have very little understanding of music theory, and I've been trying to develop my knowledge of songwriting/solo writing as of recently.

          My question is, going off of what you said about, the key of C major, and the C major scale, if you were in C minor, would you play the C minor scale?

          Extending off of that, say that, you are playing a power chord progression as would be in most rock or blues music, could you play either the C major, or C minor scales?

          It's all just confusing to me...


          Edit: This post was previously wrong. I used F instead of D due to lack of food. Thanks for pointing it out.

          Don't worry about asking basic questions - a lot of people get the basics screwed up and it leads to many of the threads in this forum.

          So if you're in the key of C minor, you would also play the C minor scale, that's correct.

          Now with the power chord songs present in blues and rock, 99% of the time those power chords are just a smaller part of a larger chord, which is either major or minor. As each key has certain chords associated with them, the combination of the power chords and the melody created by the vocals will usually indicate which key the song is in. So for example you may have a power chord progression which goes E5, G5, D5, E5 (pretty common). Now E, G and D are all notes which are within the E minor scale. Therefore it is most likely that this song is in E minor, and you would use the E minor scale over it.

          When we come to blues it can be harder, as the power chords could be ambiguous as to what key they're in. That is if you have an E blues progression, featuring the chords E5, A5 and B5, E, A and B are notes which are common to both major and minor scales, and alone could be interpreted either as major or minor.

          So in cases like these it is best to refer to the scale that the melody line is using, which is usually vocals. If the singer is singing with the E major scale, the song is in E major. If it's in E minor, the song is in E minor. Another useful place to refer to is the bassline and which notes it uses.

          For the record, most blues progressions are major. So you can opt to use the major scale. But interestingly enough, a minor penatonic/blues scale is played over the top of most major blues, giving it it's defining "bluesy" sound. You can use the minor penatonic over alot of major progressions (eg. most of rock music), but if you play the natural minor, the added flat 3rd clashes the majority of the time.
          And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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          #6
          I see what you mean to an extent. I explored this a little on my own last night, and to my surprise I found a video where the player explained relative keys, and how if we use the E5, G5, F5, E5, and you played the E minor scale over that, you could also play the G major scale and it would sound right?

          I don't mean to be bothersome, but I'm just trying to figure this out. I'm not a bad player seeing as I've been playing for 5 years, and I can play solos that I learn but I can't write them or improv or anything like that for the life of me.
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          #7
          Quote by mynameisdrakex
          I see what you mean to an extent. I explored this a little on my own last night, and to my surprise I found a video where the player explained relative keys, and how if we use the E5, G5, F5, E5, and you played the E minor scale over that, you could also play the G major scale and it would sound right?


          Playing either would sound bad if you played the F# from the G major or E minor scales. It would clash with the F in the progression.

          This chord progression is not in E minor, as was previously stated. If it were E5, F#5, G5, then it would be in E minor. For simplicity, let's use the E5 --> G5 --> F#5 --> E5 progression.

          E minor and G major contain the same notes as they are relative major/minor, but they are not the same key. The key is determined by a tonal center. To me, that progression resolves to E minor so you would be playing in E minor.

          However, within the context of a song this may resolve to a different key depending on the chords and progression used. For example, one could follow the above progression with more chords, and use them to resolve to G major. Then you would be playing in G major.
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          Last edited by Jimmy_Page_Zep at Aug 3, 2010,
          #8
          Quote by Jimmy_Page_Zep
          Playing either would sound bad if you played the F# from the G major or E minor scales. It would clash with the F in the progression.

          This chord progression is not in E minor, as was previously stated. If it were E5, F#5, G5, then it would be in E minor. For simplicity, let's use the E5 --> G5 --> F#5 --> E5 progression.

          E minor and G major contain the same notes as they are relative major/minor, but they are not the same key. The key is determined by a tonal center. To me, that progression resolves to E minor so you would be playing in E minor.

          However, within the context of a song this may resolve to a different key depending on the chords and progression used. For example, one could follow the above progression with more chords, and use them to resolve to G major. Then you would be playing in G major.


          Hmm....i still can't wrap my mind around it...
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          #9
          Quote by Jimmy_Page_Zep
          This chord progression is not in E minor, as was previously stated. If it were E5, F#5, G5, then it would be in E minor. For simplicity, let's use the E5 --> G5 --> F#5 --> E5 progression.


          Indeed. My lack of food made me put F5 instead of D5. Ugh. Now I've confused people

          And whatever you encounter along the way, don't forget rule No1 - if in the key, you are playing it's scale. Key is Em = playing E minor scale. Not G major. Yes they share the same notes. But not the same.

          Edit: I fixed my post above now.
          And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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          #11
          Quote by mynameisdrakex
          So this is a really novice question but I have very little understanding of music theory
          TBH, that book, whilst it does cover a few of the basic areas of music theory, it does it in quite a rushed manner. It's more for someone that already has a decent grasp of the basics. It might do you well to find something more simple - or just use the internet - and then come back to it later.

          Quote by Serpentarius
          What book is this? Is it any good?
          It's called The Complete Guitarist by Richard Chapman. It is a great book but, as I mentioned above, it's not for [complete] beginners.
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          #12
          Quote by UkuBuku

          First, in the beginning, it says "...otherwise there is a tendency to perceive pentatonic scales against basic major, minor, and dominant chords" which is explaining why chords must be extended.


          That *is* worded a bit confusing. Also, I dont particularly agree with that. The pentatonic scales only have like two actual triads you can make from the scale intervals.
          Take the C Major pentatonic.. C D E G A.
          You can make the basic triads of C Major (C-E-G) and A minor (A-C-E) out of that. The other three degrees can only have fifths, no thirds.
          So as long as you use two chords as long as one isnt the sixth scale degree, or you use three and any three chords based on a major scale, you arent implying pentatonic at all.

          Now, I would agree with the statement if it meant that if you only play one chord, or two with one based on the relative minor, extended chords will imply major scale better. But that is so damn situational, I'm not sure why that is even made in such a general statement.

          what does it mean to "perceive pentatonic scales against major, minor,...? How does this translate practically? Does it mean if I play only major, minor,... chords, I would use a pentatonic scale to noodle with?


          nah, not neccesarily. If you want to go for a pentatonic feel, sure. But if you play a major scale melody over chords that could also be for pentatonic, it would be major scale, and wont even sound, well, wrong?


          Second, the book says "a strict application of C major extensions to each of the sevenths creates harmonic tension with certain chords." What does an application of extension mean? Does it mean I can create a CMaj7, and then add in an extension note in the next octave to the chord to make it more "exotic" and add tension, as it states? (I am understanding tension to be a state that is beckoning to be resolved by another chord)


          Another confusing statement, the author is on a roll!
          AFAIK, extending a triad with different sevenths implies different keys. Keys imply tonal relationships, right? Okay, this is a little hard for me to explain, but I'll try.

          Say we have a C Major 7 (C-E-G-B) followed by an A minor 7 (A-C-E-G). This would be in our boring C major scale, with the chord advancement going from the I degree to the vi degree.

          However, say instead we play C Dominant 7 (C-E-G-bB) followed by A minor 7. This would no longer be C major, rather, the flattened B implies F Major, and the advancement then changes. Now it becomes the V degree into the iii degree.

          Thirdly, "the full arpeggio on each chord uses all seven notes of the scale from the root." Why isnt it the full arpeggio of each chord? Does this statement translate practically to the following: If I play a CMaj7 as an arpeggio, I will use 4 notes of the 8 notes in C Maj scale. Following this by DMin7, which will use the remaining 4 notes of the C Maj scale, which the remaining chords in C Maj using only these same notes, and with a few extensions?


          You can actually make chords using all seven notes (from the scale).
          Do you know the difference between for example saying "C Major added 9" and "C Major 9" ? An added chord is just the basic triad + the extra interval, while just naming the interval is an extended chord, meaning you dont just put in the extra interval but also the previous 'extended' intervals. An extended ninth chord would also include the 7th.
          Extended 11th would include also the 7th and 9th. Extended 13th would include the 7th, 9th and 11th.

          And... what does the C Major 13 chord look like? C-E-G-B-D-F-A. Or.. C-D-E-F-G-A-B
          Isnt that.. just a C Major *scale*

          Offcoarse, extended 13 chords for the other degrees would would have different colour notes relative to their own major scale.

          I'm not really all that sure if you should call that a 'full' arpeggio though, or if you should want to play extended 13ths all the time.. you are after all enharmonically just playing the same chord in 7 different ways. Unless you really like jazz.. but I'm sure even jazz has it's limits on how many notes in a chord will still sound alright

          Fourthly, what is "playing each mode against the chord" mean? Does this mean I would strum a Dmin7, and then play the C major scale, but starting on the D note to be in that mode? Or is mode in this context similar to an arpeggio of Dmin7?


          Well, the author massively lost points there.
          You cant play a mode over a chord. You can, however, play *in* a mode.
          The 'modes' the auther means are wrongly sometimes called so, but they are rather different 'lead' patterns if you will, maybe with a modal feel if you play them from root to octave.
          It's not a bad idea in the slightes though, to use those 'patterns' and follow the chords.
          Just dont fall into the trap too of the wrong terminology.. there is nothing modal about this.
          Last edited by ShadesOfGray at Aug 3, 2010,
          #13
          this thread has already proven really helpful. I read over the sticky on modes and its starting to make sense.
          #14
          1. If one doesn’t extend the chords into its full scale, the tendency to use pentatonic scales when improving will be greater. For example, if you are playing a C major progression. The C chord is C/E/G. The C major scale is C,D,E,F,G,A,B. The major pentatonic is C,D,E,G,A. One may just the major pentatonic to improvise, instead of fully exploring the major scale. Let’s say, now you are playing a C 7. The chord is C/E/G/Bb. You can definitely improvise with a C major pentatonic scale but that really limits you to 5 notes. You may want to consider extending the C7 into a full scale of C,D,E,F,G,A,Bb which is a C mixolydian.
          2. If you add the 7th to C. You will get Cmaj7, Cminor7, C7 and Cmin7b5. Each of the chord creates a harmonic tension. You don’t necessary need to add a note in the next octave.
          3. The modes built on the key of C contains all the notes in the C major scale starting on a different note. For example, D dorian, starting on D, has all the same note as C major. Yes, you are right about that.
          4. It is important to understand and know the tonality of each mode. D Dorian has a minor quality. It is a minor scale with a raised 6th. When you are strumming a Dmin7 chord, you would want to play a D dorian, or C major scale starting on the D. The arpeggios also contain notes in D Dorian.
          You can also play D Aeolian (D,E,F,G,A,Bb,C) when you strum a Dmin7 chord. In this case, it’s a F major scale starting on the 6th degree. You can switch between D Dorian and Aeolian if you wish depending on the chord progression when you are improvising.
          #15
          Follow these basic rules;

          1. When in the key of C major, you are playing the C major scale, irrespective of what chord is played underneath. This applies to all keys, including the minors.

          2. Modes are different from scales, and this has to do with where the song resolves to. If you are in the key of C major, and play the C major scale starting on D, you are simply playing the C major scale starting on D. If you wish to play a D dorian scale, you should have a D dorian backing (For example D minor - G major (repeat) ). If you play the D dorian scale over that backing, you'll hear how it is different from the C major scale.


          I kind of have to take issue with your discussion of scales. While what your saying is correct from the basis of the key of the song, it is incorrect from an approach of applying chord scales and incongruous to what I (and many improvisers) have been taught.
          The basics of chord-scale stuff is to use the mode that corresponds to the chord, depending on the key (in C Major you'd play A aeolian over an A-7, in G Major you'd want A dorian over the same chord, this gets kind of fuzzy when you get into tunes with a lot of altered or non-functioning harmony, but there is also more wiggle room in that type of music). Aside from that, a rough guideline is that, over non tonic major seventh chords you want to play Lydian, over dominant seventh chords you can play mixolydian (or any variety of altered scales) over non tonic or relative minor seventh chords you want dorian and over minor seventh flat five chords you want locrian.
          Chord scales, however are only half the story when it comes to improvisation. You also need to think of guide tones (3rds and 7ths) as well as chord tones and tensions (available tensions are any tone a whole step up from a chord tone) and, of course, melody.

          EDIT: Also, regarding the mode sticky: while it is correct and effective from a standpoint of composition (particularly for classical or classicaly-informed rock music) what it says is not the most helpful (though not an incorrect) way to look at applying modes and scales for improvisation, particularly if you are interested in playing through, rather then skating over chord changes.
          Last edited by tehREALcaptain at Aug 4, 2010,
          #16
          Quote by tehREALcaptain
          I kind of have to take issue with your discussion of scales. While what your saying is correct from the basis of the key of the song, it is incorrect from an approach of applying chord scales and incongruous to what I (and many improvisers) have been taught.
          The basics of chord-scale stuff is to use the mode that corresponds to the chord, depending on the key (in C Major you'd play A aeolian over an A-7, in G Major you'd want A dorian over the same chord, this gets kind of fuzzy when you get into tunes with a lot of altered or non-functioning harmony, but there is also more wiggle room in that type of music). Aside from that, a rough guideline is that, over non tonic major seventh chords you want to play Lydian, over dominant seventh chords you can play mixolydian (or any variety of altered scales) over non tonic or relative minor seventh chords you want dorian and over minor seventh flat five chords you want locrian.
          Chord scales, however are only half the story when it comes to improvisation. You also need to think of guide tones (3rds and 7ths) as well as chord tones and tensions (available tensions are any tone a whole step up from a chord tone) and, of course, melody.

          EDIT: Also, regarding the mode sticky: while it is correct and effective from a standpoint of composition (particularly for classical or classicaly-informed rock music) what it says is not the most helpful (though not an incorrect) way to look at applying modes and scales for improvisation, particularly if you are interested in playing through, rather then skating over chord changes.

          What you say works, but this is strictly from an improvisational standpoint. "Modal/Scalar interchange" really only applies when there are non-diatonic/non-functioning chords. You give me a progression that goes CM7 - Am9 - Dm - G9 - C and I'll just go up and down C Major. Yes, I may use the different modal shapes on the different chords, but I'm still playing in C Major.

          If you gave me something where I COULDN'T play to just one key like Cadd#11 - C7 - F - GbM7 - G7#9 - F7 - Bm6 then I would understand treating each chord like it's it's own tonic. I mean... you really have to. There's not much you can do if you try and stick to one key.
          #17
          What you say works, but this is strictly from an improvisational standpoint. "Modal/Scalar interchange" really only applies when there are non-diatonic/non-functioning chords. You give me a progression that goes CM7 - Am9 - Dm - G9 - C and I'll just go up and down C Major. Yes, I may use the different modal shapes on the different chords, but I'm still playing in C Major.


          Yes, your still IN C Major, but you could use modal interchange as a way of adding more color to your playing. Playing in C Major, and accenting chord tones would also work and is a very valid approach, but using a chord-scale approach can be just as effective and can also open up new possibilities in terms of note-choice. Modal interchange can also be applied to diatonic progressions if you want to bring out a different sound, though you could also just think of what non-diatonic notes you want to use (playing Lydian on CMAJ7, Whole tone/diminished on G7 or Dorian on Am7 for example).
          #18
          The point of chord scales is to include the whole chord and it's tensions in a scalar way, it has nothing to do with modes. It's just a simple way for beginners to look at it if they are used to scales versus chordal playing.

          D Dorian for Dmin 7 includes the chord and it's tensions, versus doing it chordally DFACEGB.

          That said, it's pointless to play in chord scales because you neither want to start the phrase with the root of the chord because it'll sound like a bassline and it's bad voiceleading, nor finish on the root because you might not want to resolve at that moment.
          #19
          Quote by tehREALcaptain
          Yes, your still IN C Major, but you could use modal interchange as a way of adding more color to your playing. Playing in C Major, and accenting chord tones would also work and is a very valid approach, but using a chord-scale approach can be just as effective and can also open up new possibilities in terms of note-choice.


          No new notes are being introduced, all you're doing is playing the C major scale, emphasising chord tones. If you want some extra notes to accommodate for out-of-place chords, use accidentals.

          Edit: And considering this approach, I don't see why you'd pay attention to the key of a song at all if you wanted to approach each chord with a separate mode. Firstly I wouldn't play A minor (aeolian) over an A7 chord - I'd play A mixylodian because that would obviously emphasise the character of the chord. Aeolian would just refer back to the C major scale. In practice however, if I am in the key of C major and encounter an A7 chord, over that chord I will use an accidental C# to the C major scale so the scale wouldn't clash.
          And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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          #20
          Edit: And considering this approach, I don't see why you'd pay attention to the key of a song at all if you wanted to approach each chord with a separate mode. Firstly I wouldn't play A minor (aeolian) over an A7 chord - I'd play A mixylodian because that would obviously emphasise the character of the chord. Aeolian would just refer back to the C major scale. In practice however, if I am in the key of C major and encounter an A7 chord, over that chord I will use an accidental C# to the C major scale so the scale wouldn't clash.


          I don't know when I mentioned A7 chords I was refering to playing A aeolian over an A minor seven chord in the key of C Major. What your saying isn't incorrect, but the idea of using chord/scales is to give you a different (for some, easier) way of thinking about bringing out the sound of chord changes. It also lets you bring out different colors on different chords (EG lydian on a tonic M7, or the altered scale on a dominant 7 chord). The sound is the same as using accidentals, but chord scales give you a different way of thinking of it.
          #21
          Quote by tehREALcaptain
          I don't know when I mentioned A7 chords I was refering to playing A aeolian over an A minor seven chord in the key of C Major. What your saying isn't incorrect, but the idea of using chord/scales is to give you a different (for some, easier) way of thinking about bringing out the sound of chord changes. It also lets you bring out different colors on different chords (EG lydian on a tonic M7, or the altered scale on a dominant 7 chord). The sound is the same as using accidentals, but chord scales give you a different way of thinking of it.


          Absolutely no one plays music or even analyzes music like this.

          1- Just because someone approached the 5th with a chromatic #4th doesnt mean they're playing on lydian nor modally.

          2- It's pointless to think that way because you'll be stuck with scalar playing forever. You tell me everytime you play over chords you think of the chordscale that belongs to it and you adjust to it accordingly? You're wasting time because you're thinking of the root first which is the last note you want to play in a solo. That said, you have to have multiple trains of thought to reach the guide tones and tensions in order to play.

          3- Like I said above it's a simpler method for beginners to see the whole line of chord tones and tensions of a chord an a simple pattern. It helps people visualize it better on instruments like horns where you dont have a visual fretboard with patterns on it.

          It helps people understand but it should never be the train of thought or how you approach music.

          It's a waste of time in the end, no one ever thought or played this way as is was created as an academic method that was easy to explain and sell.
          #22
          Quote by tehREALcaptain
          The sound is the same as using accidentals, but chord scales give you a different way of thinking of it.


          I think it's overly complex. If you're talking about an A minor 7 chord (rather than the A7 chord example as I used), no accidentals need to be employed in the C major scale. As you note, it doesn't change the sound, because it's just using the C major scale.

          But hey, at least you see that the sound doesn't change.
          And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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          #23
          Quote by AlanHB
          I think it's overly complex. If you're talking about an A minor 7 chord (rather than the A7 chord example as I used), no accidentals need to be employed in the C major scale. As you note, it doesn't change the sound, because it's just using the C major scale.

          But hey, at least you see that the sound doesn't change.


          +1

          Thats what I mean about wasting time and thoughts, I don't see the point in having to have these extra thoughts when it's all in the same key.
          #25
          OP
          sorry for starting a dumb arguement

          to answer your questions point-by-point

          First, in the beginning, it says "...otherwise there is a tendency to perceive pentatonic scales against basic major, minor, and dominant chords" which is explaining why chords must be extended.
          what does it mean to "perceive pentatonic scales against major, minor,...? How does this translate practically? Does it mean if I play only major, minor,... chords, I would use a pentatonic scale to noodle with?

          I think they just mean guitarists have a tendency to play pentatonic scales/licks over chords instead of using material based off the arpeggio or chord/scale (over CMAJ7 the arpeggio is C E G B, the chord scale is C Major if it is a tonic chord, C lydian if not).

          Second, the book says "a strict application of C major extensions to each of the sevenths creates harmonic tension with certain chords." What does an application of extension mean? Does it mean I can create a CMaj7, and then add in an extension note in the next octave to the chord to make it more "exotic" and add tension, as it states? (I am understanding tension to be a state that is beckoning to be resolved by another chord)

          I think 'application of an extension' means using tensions (9, 11 13). You are correct in your assumption about adding extensions. Tensions are notes from the chord scale (if they are natural tensions) or outside notes (altered tensions) that are not in the seventh chord arpeggio. They can be perceived as yearning to resolve, but oftentimes do not resolve as someone with a background in traditional harmony would expect (or resolve at all). thats not to say they cannot resolve or do not resolve.

          Thirdly, "the full arpeggio on each chord uses all seven notes of the scale from the root." Why isnt it the full arpeggio of each chord? Does this statement translate practically to the following: If I play a CMaj7 as an arpeggio, I will use 4 notes of the 8 notes in C Maj scale. Following this by DMin7, which will use the remaining 4 notes of the C Maj scale, which the remaining chords in C Maj using only these same notes, and with a few extensions?

          By full arpeggio i think they are reffering to a 13 chord. taking every other note of a chord scale (or stacking thirds) would lead to that. A CMAJ13 chord (with all extensions) would be C E G B D F A. Some (particularly pianists) would think of it as a C Major triad with a B half diminished chord or a C Major seventh chord with a D minor triad on top. a Dmin13 chord would be similar, but taking the notes from the dorian chord/scale (if you are in C Major) it would be D F A C E G B.


          Fourthly, what is "playing each mode against the chord" mean? Does this mean I would strum a Dmin7, and then play the C major scale, but starting on the D note to be in that mode? Or is mode in this context similar to an arpeggio of Dmin7?

          Playing each note against each chord is exactly what you said, playing a chord and then a scale over it (a good thing to practice). You can use garage band to record a chord and then see what notes from the chord/scale you want to play and how they sound.
          #26
          rule of thumb, modes are less about the scale of notes itself, and more about the relationship as a whole with the harmony
          Quote by BlitzkriegAir
          1. Get drunk
          2. play pentatonic scales fast
          3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
          4. Get killed onstage
          5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


          Quote by Holy Katana

          How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
          #28
          So I was dinkin' around on the guitar and came up with a minor sound that I really like, and I'm trying to figure out the name of it. Its really simple, so hopefully you can help me.

          I was using the open A string as the bass

          and on the high E string, i played the notes
          E-F G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F

          I'm not sure what the root would be (A?), and continuing to the F an octave above the first seemed natural while noodling around. Is this enough to define a mode I played in, or do I need more?
          #29
          Quote by UkuBuku
          So I was dinkin' around on the guitar and came up with a minor sound that I really like, and I'm trying to figure out the name of it. Its really simple, so hopefully you can help me.

          I was using the open A string as the bass

          and on the high E string, i played the notes
          E-F G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F

          I'm not sure what the root would be (A?), and continuing to the F an octave above the first seemed natural while noodling around. Is this enough to define a mode I played in, or do I need more?

          You were in A Phrygian... but if you RESOLVED to the F, you're just in F Major and you ended on an implied F/A chord.
          #31
          Quote by griffRG7321
          Awesome i have that book!


          Hahah what do you think of it? Its pretty good, but very dense. Covers a little bit of everything
          #32
          Quote by UkuBuku
          Hahah what do you think of it? Its pretty good, but very dense. Covers a little bit of everything


          Well it was my dads, i've not looked through it well enough to give an opinion on it.