#1
Ok so first up: I just learned how to harmonize the major/minor scales in sevenths and I'm wondering if since even for dominant 9th chords the 9th isn't flat, would it follow the exact same harmonized pattern that you would find if you harmonized in sevenths? Namely:

IMaj7-ii7-iii7-IVMaj7-V7-vi7-vii7b5

So would 9ths just be:

IMaj9-ii9-iii9-IVMaj9-V9-vi9-[what would this last one be?]

Also, is a m7b5 just a half diminished chord?


Second question: Ok so in terms of harmonizing guitar riffs, like first guitar plays X and second harmonizes by playing Y or bass or something, what are some different methods on that? Does anybody have a good article for a noob?

I know the obvious octave harmony where you play the same thing but an octave higher but that can get stale pretty quickly.


Thanks a ton.
#2
the problem with the 9th is the formula...you now have 5 notes in the chord 1 3 5 7 9..this would make the scale very difficult to finger in some positions if not impossible...but leave out the root and you have new voicing and fingerings to work with..the inversions of these chords will produce some nice flavors also...some fingerings may be a bit difficult but workable...i think if you do the inversions of the 7th chords ... there will be more than enough work for you and you will begin to see the fingering "pattern logic" with each new inversions

your second question is about voice leading..playing several lines at once...a study of Bach corals is a good place to begin this as there are a few hundred of them...and some are fairly easy...to play and see the logic of the moving voices....there are quite a few good books on voice leading...check some out and find one that you can understand ..

..a teacher may be something to think about at this point..

play well

wolf
#3
Quote by -TM-
Ok so first up: I just learned how to harmonize the major/minor scales in sevenths and I'm wondering if since even for dominant 9th chords the 9th isn't flat, would it follow the exact same harmonized pattern that you would find if you harmonized in sevenths? Namely:

IMaj7-ii7-iii7-IVMaj7-V7-vi7-vii7b5

So would 9ths just be:

IMaj9-ii9-iii9-IVMaj9-V9-vi9-[what would this last one be?]

I would imagine just m9b5.

Those are correct by the way.

Also, is a m7b5 just a half diminished chord?

Yes.


Second question: Ok so in terms of harmonizing guitar riffs, like first guitar plays X and second harmonizes by playing Y or bass or something, what are some different methods on that? Does anybody have a good article for a noob?

I know the obvious octave harmony where you play the same thing but an octave higher but that can get stale pretty quickly.


Thanks a ton.

Harmonizing in thirds is the most common. Sixths behind that. I usually give the bass a similar part as whichever guitar is lower.

Though wolfen is right (except he means counterpoint, not voiceleading). That makes things MUCH more interesting. It's just a lot harder.
#4
Id argue against checking out bach chorales if you want to learn to voicelead the types of chords your talking about. Mick Goodrick's Advancing guitarist has a great chapter on harmony, as does his Almanac of Guitar Voiceleading (which is one of the best books on comping). Use your ears and try to lead each note to the closest note in the next chord. Check out bach for pleasure (his chorales, and of course the rest of his compositions are amazingly beutifull) and, if you ever take a theory course you will be made to learn appropriate 18th century voiceleading, which may help a tiny bit with what you want, but not as much as listening to guitarists and pianists whose voiceleading you like and practicing. As for voicing 9th chords, you can remove any note from a 7th chord except the third and seventh to accommodate using tensions (9ths, 11ths, 13's).
#5
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I would imagine just m9b5.


diatonically, m7(b5)(b9). in the key of C, the ninth chord built on the leading tone would consist of B D F A C.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#6
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Harmonizing in thirds is the most common. Sixths behind that. I usually give the bass a similar part as whichever guitar is lower.

Though wolfen is right (except he means counterpoint, not voiceleading). That makes things MUCH more interesting. It's just a lot harder.


Even that's an understatement.

Harmonizing in fifths is done too. Octaves are also popular in metal.

Sometimes in metal things are harmonized in 'strict' minor thirds -- instead of finding which third is in key, you just slap a minor third over the top. Basically invented by Athiest. In mathcore, major thirds are sometimes used.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#7
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I would imagine just m9b5.

Those are correct by the way.


Yes.


Harmonizing in thirds is the most common. Sixths behind that. I usually give the bass a similar part as whichever guitar is lower.

Though wolfen is right (except he means counterpoint, not voiceleading). That makes things MUCH more interesting. It's just a lot harder.



maybe off topic here but what exactly is counterpoint?
#8
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I would imagine just m9b5.

Those are correct by the way.


Yes.


Harmonizing in thirds is the most common. Sixths behind that. I usually give the bass a similar part as whichever guitar is lower.

Though wolfen is right (except he means counterpoint, not voiceleading). That makes things MUCH more interesting. It's just a lot harder.

Alright thanks, so I'm guessing 11ths and 13ths would follow the same pattern?

When you say harmonizing in thirds what do you mean by that?

Like if I have the scale:

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

to harmonize in thirds if I play a C would guitar 2 play E?

If I play an E would guitar 2 play G?
#9
Quote by -TM-
Alright thanks, so I'm guessing 11ths and 13ths would follow the same pattern?

When you say harmonizing in thirds what do you mean by that?

Like if I have the scale:

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

to harmonize in thirds if I play a C would guitar 2 play E?

If I play an E would guitar 2 play G?


yes.

edit: for the 3rds anyway
Last edited by brandon2784 at Aug 2, 2010,
#10
Quote by AeolianWolf
diatonically, m7(b5)(b9). in the key of C, the ninth chord built on the leading tone would consist of B D F A C.

So I'd flat the fifth, 7th, and 9th?
#11
^ Yes, and the third, obviously.

Brandon: Counterpoint is the art of creating two melodies distinct both melodically and rhythmically sound together without sounding like total shit.
i don't know why i feel so dry