Page 1 of 26
#1
The thread for Jet City amps, pedals, and other gear.

Combos:
JCA2112RC


The JCA2112RC is an all-tube amp, except for the rectifier, and it is a combination of Jet City's JCA20H head, and the Jet City JCA12S cab. This combo also has tube-driven reverb in it, which, in my opinion, sounds great. IMO, this amp is great for classic rock/hard rock, and you could even use it for some metal. But having one channel might diminish the potential value of this amp.

JCA5212RC

Basically the JCA2112RC with 2 speakers and 50 watts.

Heads:
PicoValve

I haven't gotten a chance to play this head, but the long and short of it is that it is a 5 watt amp head with tubes in it. Specifically, 2 12AX7s in the preamp and one 6L6 in the power section. If anyone has a good review for this head, please PM me.

JCA20H

As I said before, the JCA2112RC is basically this head combined with the JCA12S cabinet. Just like the combo, it only has one channel, although IMO the sound on this amp is just like the combo, definitely a good crunch on it. Playing Whole Lotta Love through this amp made me smile, it just sounded so good. One major difference from the combo is that this head does not have built-in reverb. Also, the higher wattage heads have more gain, so if money is no object, go bigger.

Link to Guitar World demo of the JCA20H.

Jet City also sells modded version of these heads.
JCA20H Comet - The JCA20H with Sovtek 12AX7 preamp tubes and JJ EL84 power amp tubes.
JCA20H-BE - JCA20H with the Brown Eye mod.
JCA20H-BE + Loop - The JCA20H-BE with a solid state effects loop.
JCA20H-BES - The JCA20H-BE with a front-panel saturation switch.
JCA20H-BES + Loop - The JCA20H-BES with a solid state effects loop.
JCA20H-BVC - The "Clean Mod", giving maximum clean headroom.

JCA50H

Also an all-tube amp head, the JCA50H is IMO the perfect gigging head. It has a clean and "dirty" or overdrive channel, and the amp comes with a footswitch. It also has separate volumes for each channel, and a prescence control. There is more than enough volume for a medium-sized gig, without being miked. All I can say is that this is a very high-quality amp.

JCA100H

Moar gain, moar volume, moar everything. It still has the same two channels that the JCA50H does, but definitely a great high-gain amplifier. Sounds GREAT when cranked up, and from what I've heard, they are built like a tank. This is basically the JCA50H, with more everything.

Here is a post from AcousticMirror about the Soldano and Jet City amps and the relationships between them (clones, amps based on, etc.)

Quote by AcousticMirror
Here is the official explanation of the soldano/jet city kingdom with my thoughts added in as well.


Soldano Super Lead Overdrive - King of the Castle. 100w 2 channel 6l6 based amp. 5 12ax7s. Clean channel has a clean/crunch switch that is not footswitchable. Clean channel uses 2 gain stages, crunch uses 3, overdrive uses 4.

2 things make the SLO special in the lineup.
-DeYoung Transformers. These transformers were specially designed by Mike from O'netics. These transformers are not available for private sale. Mike Soldano will not sell them to you. They are typically only found in the SLO and sometimes in other Soldano amps. These were probably the cutting edge of ultra-linear audio transformer technology at one point. Many believe these are responsible for the slo sound.
-Rack level effects loop. The fx loop in the slo is only for rack effects. Stomp boxes sound sound.

Soldano Decatone - 3 channel amp based on the slo. Independent /pre-amp volume controls for all 3 channels. Shared EQ Pedal level effects loop.
-The difference between this amp and the slo is that this amp does not have the DeYoung transformers. 3 independent channels means a longer circuit path from point A to point B.

Avengers - Currently the avenger series comes in a variety of different flavors
1. Avenger Plus 50/100w. Basically the slo without an effects loop and without DeYoungs. Avengers are split between using Mercury Magnetic transformers, Hammonds, and custom transformers that Mike has designed for the Avenger. Much cheaper then the slo. Voiced a bit differently.
2. Hot Rod Avenger 50/100w Just the slo overdrive channel with an effects level loop. Same transformers as the Avenger +.
3. Hot Rod Avenger + XL - discontinued. 2 channel Avenger with a depth knob and an effects level loop. My buddy has this amp with Mercury Magnetics transformers. It probably sounds the closest out of all the amps I've heard to the slo but it is voiced a bit differently.

Lucky 13 50/100 - This is a vintage voiced Avenger +. It's got a dirtier clean channel voiced midway between the slo clean/crunch and the overdrive channel has 20 percent less gain then the slo. Its also got reverb standard.

Atomic 16/Astroverb 20. Slo preamp paired to 2 el84s.

Reverb-o-sonice/Blues city 44. Grab and go combos. One has clean/crunch the other is a single channel with a wide range gain knob.

Jet City Line up

JCA20H/Combo - Atomic 16/Astroverb 20 made in China with oem level components and transformers. Combo has reverb.

JCA100H/Combo 50H. Hot Rod Avenger +. 2 channel, effects level loop, combo has reverb.

JCA5212RC - Lucky 13 Combo. 2 Channels, dirty cleans, slo overdrive -20%. Reverb. Effects level loop

Comparison: If we can assume that A. components are important and that B. transformers have the greatest overall single influence on sound then it can be stated that C. Nothing sounds like the SLO. Mike does not allow the DeYoung SLO transformers to be sold and he uses the thickest pcb board and best components for the SLO. He also looks over every SLO himself before they are sold.

However, in the past Mike did release and mod Avengers with the DeYoung transformers. I've never played one but everything I've heard has led me to believe that these sound amazing. They don't have the highest quality parts like the SLO does but they are far simpler in circuitry, the one channel version at least). It is possible to find HR Avengers, Avenger +, HR Avenger +XLs with DeYoung but it is very very rare.

The Lucky 13 really sounds nothing like the SLO. It's got it's own voice. Much less modern, much more hard blues to classic/early metal.

I don't know how any of the other slo amps sound.

Jet City.

The Jet City amps sound very very close to their respective SLO counterparts. The only thin that's different is that instead of MM transformers or Mike's custom standard line transformers they use mass produced transformers and parts that were picked out by Mike and supplied by an Asian distributor. So, in terms of quality they are 2 steps removed from the SLO. That applies to the 100h/50h/100 combo. Now the 100 combo has reverb which means there's another step in the circuit path. Reverbs are known to suck some gain from the overall circuit.

The 50combo is based on the lucky 13 and is one stepped removed from the Lucky 13. So we can assume that it has 20 percent less gain then the slo and a dirty clean channel with reverb. I'm actually really excited about this.

JC20H/Combo - These are the farthest from the SLO. However, they are probably closer to the Atomic/Astroverb then the JCA50/100 are to the Avengers. Mike designed this amp to allow people to get a good mix of power tube/preamp distortion at gigging levels. Depending on how you run the volume/gain you should be able to get a variety of tones that the SLO and the Avengers simply don't offer. The 100w amps were not designed with power tube distortion in mind. The DeYoung was utilized to provide the highest amount of headroom and power tube saturation without causing the power tubes to break up. This is important because a 4 or 5 stage preamp gain provides a signal that would usually explode the power tubes. Remember though that the SLO came out in the 80s. A lot of other manufactures have utilized the innovations in the SLO to develop amps with similar characteristics.

The Jet Cities sound good. Mike oversaw the development and sourcing of parts for them. The schematics are nearly identical to the schematics that Mike uses for the Soldanos. 90-100 percent in most cases. The only deviations are where parts, size, or efficiency concerns necessitated alteration. You can see some of that when comparing the Avenger schematic to the JCA 100 schematic.

Awesome other stuff. "Clones" of the the DeYoung transformers are available for sale through O'netics. They aren't exactly like the DeYoungs but are a step above the MMs and customs that Mike usually uses. Reviews have said that a simple transformer swap easily brings the other amps to the level of the SLO. It's not cheap though. A full set of C3C/O'Netics PT/OT/Choke costs about 550+Shipping. The OT by itself is about 240.

I would love to have a Lucky 13 or JCA5212Rc and drop some O'netics in there.
There's also a harmony central thread that shoes that the JCA20H might be one of the best platforms for modding ever.

That's all. JCA>Blackstar>Bugera>your dad.
Call me Andrew. It's my name.

Quote by theogonia777
i fond God too, man! i sat next to him on the bus once. he told be the meaning of life and then gave me a pretzel. i can't remember what the meaning of live was, but it was a good pretzel, man!
Last edited by GoIrish668 at Nov 1, 2010,
#2
Pedals:
I haven't played any of these pedals, so if anyone has a good video review or any review at all, PM me. For now I'll just put the description on the Jet City website.

Afterburner Overdrive:

The Afterburner is a two stage overdrive in a road-ready, aluminum and steel housing. The first stage is a straight-up overdrive for adding gain to the front-end of a tube amp. The second stage is a boost to increase volume for solos, etc. Also has true bypass.

GS High-Gain Boost:

The GuitarSlinger High Gain Boost, designed by international guitar hero Alex Beyrodt, was previously only available through GuitarSlinger’s one-at-a-time, hand-built operation. This truely boutique pedal will give your amp’s distorted lead tone more gain saturation, and the boost feature will allow you to cut through the mix handily during solos.

GS Overdrive:

The GuitarSlinger Overdrive, designed by international guitar hero Alex Beyrodt, was previously only available through GuitarSlinger’s one-at-a-time, hand-built operation. This truely boutique pedal is capable of pushing your amp’s clean channel into a fat crunch, or distorted channel into a heavy lead distortion. The additional bright switch adds high-frequency clarity and definition.

Shockwave Distortion:

The Shockwave is a full-on, raucous-yet-refined distortion pedal, suited for use with nearly any amp. With tones ranging from lower-gain “British” crunch, to a riff-inspiring, full-blown saturation, this box is a must-have for the serious and versatile guitarist. Apply it to a clean amp setting and the Shockwave adds a “lead channel” to your single-channel amplifier, complete with a separate tone control.

Another quote about Jet City from industry veteran Doug White about his involvement with Mike Soldano on the Jet City Amps, courtesy of AcousticMirror

"On the topic of involvement of the Soldano himself. There are 3 owners of the company. ME. Soldano. and we have a partner Dan who handles Sales and Logistics.

Mike designed 20H, and 100H - 100%, top-to-bottom, inside and out. Chassis, PCB, layout, parts list, wiring diagram, schematic, Headshell, etc etc.

Since we are talking about 100H, here are a few details: For a long time, Mike wanted to integrate the preamp and the power sections of the HotRod 100 into ONE pcb. So in the 100H, that's what he did. Also, the pots we use in China are the same functional spec as the Soldano-used pots, but the footprint on the pcb is different, so Mike had to change the layout to accommodate. Personally. So from a design stand point? It is in all other ways a HotRod 100. This means the difference is in the parts and labor. And as noted in this thread, the biggest difference is TRANSFORMERS. In the case of the 20H, Mike gave me the same spec he used for the Atomic 16 tranny, and I had it sourced in China. I went over there and measured and LISTENED and revised. And repeated. Probably 4 times. When I thought I nailed it, I brought it home to Mike, who gave it another rinse (personally) and directed changes which resulted in the final version. In 100H the process was faster for two reasons: 1, since we had been though it before, the iterations of the tranny were much faster. 2, Soldano went to China with me, and that trip was after 20H started production and while 100H was in proto, therefore HE was able to do the direct-with-supplier revisions until it was what he wanted. Of course there are more details, but I'm posting on HC, not documenting our process.

Regarding the "other" parts, I have to say, what we are getting in China is not that much different than what Soldano uses in his stuff here. And while the prices are indeed better because the factory can buy in WAY bigger qty than we can, the other big cost difference is for sure the labor. For what it's worth, I was in the factory 6 times last year - every other month - while we were getting this going. And I am headed over there again Monday."
Call me Andrew. It's my name.

Quote by theogonia777
i fond God too, man! i sat next to him on the bus once. he told be the meaning of life and then gave me a pretzel. i can't remember what the meaning of live was, but it was a good pretzel, man!
Last edited by GoIrish668 at Nov 1, 2010,
#3
I can make this post reserved if needed...

But bout time this came round. I was waiting for one!

Dont they have cabs too?
2012 Gibson Les Paul Custom Classic
2001 Schecter C-1 Classic
2007 Yamaha APX500
Vox AC15CC1 w/ Eminence Tonkerlite
Assorted Pedals!

All for sale!

Call me Matt!
#4
Yeah cabs, also the pico valve. The site also says pedals coming soon..They sell the JCA20H with the brown eye mod and a couple other variations direct on their site.

They also have replacement baffles with different colors now, or a metal grill.

The JCA100HDM is also coming out soon... as far as I know, same as the 100H, but with a depth control, metal grill and LEDs inside.

I have a huge fear if rays.
#5
i was thinking about making one of these the other day! glad someone did.
I love my JCA combo. Its brilliant!
But i am tempted to trade it in for the head and get a baller of a cab
Gibson RawPower SG 2009 (Zales)
Gibson Hummingbird 70's? (Amy)
Jet City JCA 20 Watt Combo
Dunlop Crybaby wah
MXR 10 Band EQ
Ibanez TS-9
#6
Quote by ChrisBW
The JCA100HDM is also coming out soon... as far as I know, same as the 100H, but with a depth control, metal grill and LEDs inside.
Looks pretty pimp.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!
#7
Oooo, replacement baffles...


Anyone know if the JCA50H is the same size as the JCA20H? Or is it a full sized head like the 100?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#8
so I was on the jet city site and saw that they're now selling a bunch of different versions of the jca 20, with selectable grills(finally), and lots of different tube combinations! Definitely worth taking at look at
Quote by alm0st a skat3r
yeah i remember when i had a good conscience. now i dont give a ****

xxx
smoke weed, drink 40's, **** titties
#9
it's gotta be the same size as the 100 mclaw.
buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
#10
So I've heard clips of the gain channel, it was really impressive. How is the clean channel then?

What are the two extra knobs on the 50H? I can't read them.
#11
Quote by AcousticMirror
it's gotta be the same size as the 100 mclaw.

Suckage
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#12
^yeah its the same size as the 100
Quote by alm0st a skat3r
yeah i remember when i had a good conscience. now i dont give a ****

xxx
smoke weed, drink 40's, **** titties
#13
Quote by Tempoe
So I've heard clips of the gain channel, it was really impressive. How is the clean channel then?

What are the two extra knobs on the 50H? I can't read them.


They are the extra gain/volume knobs for the second channel. The 20 watt is single channel and the 50 and 100 are 2 channel.
I have a huge fear if rays.
#15
****ers, I did this thread like 4 months ago and you assholes let it die.


I really want the 50H, like, mega bad. I just need roughly 200 more dollars of throw away money and I'm set.

Also need to look at more cabs, I'm still considering selling my Carvin and buyin an Avatar.

MC, what's so bad about the 50H being the same size as the 100H?
Quote by SG_dave at #33549256
I've never wanted to see a guy eat dick so much in my life.
Quote by ali.guitarkid7 at #33553650
If you are white, you are scum.
#16
Quote by CL/\SH
****ers, I did this thread like 4 months ago and you assholes let it die.


I really want the 50H, like, mega bad. I just need roughly 200 more dollars of throw away money and I'm set.

Also need to look at more cabs, I'm still considering selling my Carvin and buyin an Avatar.

MC, what's so bad about the 50H being the same size as the 100H?


It won't fit on his awesome Emperor 1x12
I have a huge fear if rays.
#17
it's awesome that they are selling the friedman modded ones right in their store now.
buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
#18
Quote by ChrisBW
It won't fit on his awesome Emperor 1x12

Yup
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#19
Quote by GoIrish668
Also, the higher wattage heads have more gain, so if money is no object, go bigger.

you know, except that the jca20 isnt even based off the same amp so it sounds pretty different. other than that, yeah, go for the bigger heads just because they cost more and have more gain!

some of us like a more crunch oriented amp, and some of us like single channel heads. if money is no object, buy the amp you like the sound of, not the one that costs the most.
#20
Quote by ChrisBW
It won't fit on his awesome Emperor 1x12
Aww Not even if you lay it sideways?

And ^ agreed. Although, in my case, this dualy channels are very necessary, and I wuv teh extra wattage. 50s are awesome
Quote by SG_dave at #33549256
I've never wanted to see a guy eat dick so much in my life.
Quote by ali.guitarkid7 at #33553650
If you are white, you are scum.
#21
I'm hopeing my parents will let me get the JCA20H, might need to do some begging/prostituting to get the money though. Anyone hear of reliability issues with them as of yet? I know they're designed by Soldano but they use chinese parts and manufacturing.
I play Lacrosse, you should too
Quote by reeses
heed this man's suggestion, for he is wise.

Aww shucks...

Quote by Tom 1.0
Oh and wait for the Schecter fan boys, if you listen real hard you can already hear them coming.
#22
Quote by Metalfan41
I'm hopeing my parents will let me get the JCA20H, might need to do some begging/prostituting to get the money though. Anyone hear of reliability issues with them as of yet? I know they're designed by Soldano but they use chinese parts and manufacturing.

I've owned my 20H for 8 or 9 months, and it's still roaring. All the tubes are still in great shape, and no problem with the over all build, still looks brand new.

I'm getting rude of it soon, however, as I need moar power and moar than one channel.
Quote by SG_dave at #33549256
I've never wanted to see a guy eat dick so much in my life.
Quote by ali.guitarkid7 at #33553650
If you are white, you are scum.
#23
Should put what amps they are based off of.
JCA20H - Astroverb 16 (minus reverb)
JCA2112RC - Astroverb 16 112
JCA50H/100H - Hot Rod 50/100 Plus
JCA5212RC - Lucky 13-50 212
PicoValve - THD UniValve

I plan on getting the JCA20 after I get my next pay check
Warning: The above post may contain lethal levels of radiation, sharp objects and sexiness.
Proceed with extreme caution!
Last edited by justinb904 at Aug 4, 2010,
#24
Quote by CL/\SH

I'm getting rude of it soon, however, as I need moar power and moar than one channel.


You gettin' the 50? Anyway, I made another JC thread, it died too. Lets see how long this goes....
NT

BE QUICK OR BE DEAD SON
#26
heres some of the new modded JCA20H models, this is the Comet:

Our most popular amp, the JCA20H is now available with a pre-installed tube cocktail. We chose Sovtek 12ax7 preamp tubes for high-gain, low-noise, and long life. And we install a pair of matched JJ EL84 in the power section for balanced tone with high reliability. This special JCA20H also comes with your choice of black, white, red, perforated metal (metal is $5 extra), or our standard (and favorite) Jet City Blue Baffle, installed by the Jet Crew. Round this Comet package out with the included durable Amp Cover. All this for just $399.99 – it’s a great amp at a great price.


And the BE+ ($500) and BE+ Loop ($700)

The Jet City Amplification JCA20H-BE + Loop is a hot-rodded beast that combines a time-proven Soldano circuit with Dave Friedman’s magical and dirty “Brown Eye” mod plus a solid state effects loop.


And theirs a BES and BES + Loop

The Jet City Amplification JCA20H-BES is a hot-rodded beast that combines a time-proven Soldano circuit with Dave Friedman’s magical and dirty “Brown Eye” mod PLUS a front-panel Saturation switch. All the Overdriven goodness of the JCA20H-BE, with even more Saturation!



finally they are offering them with different colored grills, the black or chrome look a lot better than the blue. even the white is an improvement
Quote by alm0st a skat3r
yeah i remember when i had a good conscience. now i dont give a ****

xxx
smoke weed, drink 40's, **** titties
Last edited by handbanana at Aug 5, 2010,
#27
i dig the white cover they recently came out with. looks a very nice!
Gibson RawPower SG 2009 (Zales)
Gibson Hummingbird 70's? (Amy)
Jet City JCA 20 Watt Combo
Dunlop Crybaby wah
MXR 10 Band EQ
Ibanez TS-9
#28
These things look beast, im was planning on getting the 20h but i need two channels. Could i get high gain out of the 50h? like a pop/punk, easycore, hardcore sound? with out pedals?
Quote by travs2448
is the puppy solid state or tube?

Quote by diceksox1809
solid state. when she screams it pisses me off

^

Quote by GrizzlyFnAdams6
Dimebag had s*** tone and that guitar plays like an abortion. Come at me, bro!


Quote by jpatan
It's because Garth Brooks brings the ****in' br00tz.
#29
Wish they did a 20 watt one with 2 channels with the brown eye mod, it would then be my ideal choice for a small tube amp
Bands:
Native State
A Titan, A Deity
Rash L.A

Gear:
Suhr Modern Guthrie Spec
LSL CSV Studio Strat
Fender American Standard Tele
Schecter C7 Blackjack
Faith Hi Gloss Venus

Mesa Lonestar Special
Bugera 333
Zilla 2x12 Fatboy
Line 6 PodHD500
#30
Will the brown eye ones be available to Europe at any time?
Also, how are the cleans on these things, the 20w especially?
Call me Cahum.


Squier Classic Vibe 50s Strat
Epiphone AJ-10 Acoustic

Valvepower 18w
Blackheart 112 cab
#31
I definitely think that JCA 20H with the BES mod has a place in my new rig. They better be able to ship to Canada.
#32
Quote by NosralTserrof
You gettin' the 50? Anyway, I made another JC thread, it died too. Lets see how long this goes....

I might. Might also get the Egnater Rebel-30 or Renegade. May even opt for a Splawn, although it would rape my wallet.

Yeah we'll see if we can keep this thread alive.
Quote by SG_dave at #33549256
I've never wanted to see a guy eat dick so much in my life.
Quote by ali.guitarkid7 at #33553650
If you are white, you are scum.
#33
I never really liked the Egnater amps before. ESPECIALLY in comparision to the Jet City and Bugera lines.
Call me Andrew. It's my name.

Quote by theogonia777
i fond God too, man! i sat next to him on the bus once. he told be the meaning of life and then gave me a pretzel. i can't remember what the meaning of live was, but it was a good pretzel, man!
#34
Quote by ILiKePiNeAppLeS
Will the brown eye ones be available to Europe at any time?
Also, how are the cleans on these things, the 20w especially?


I like the cleans with my combo. a tad of reverb with the bridge humbucker on my sg hits a nice thick clean. Or thats the way i would describe it, i suck at describing tone
Gibson RawPower SG 2009 (Zales)
Gibson Hummingbird 70's? (Amy)
Jet City JCA 20 Watt Combo
Dunlop Crybaby wah
MXR 10 Band EQ
Ibanez TS-9
#35
One of those modded ones should solve the problems of not having enough gain in the 20 watt model.

I'm also told that the 50 has more gain, similar to the 100.
Quote by alm0st a skat3r
yeah i remember when i had a good conscience. now i dont give a ****

xxx
smoke weed, drink 40's, **** titties
#36
Quote by travs2448
These things look beast, im was planning on getting the 20h but i need two channels. Could i get high gain out of the 50h? like a pop/punk, easycore, hardcore sound? with out pedals?


Yeah you'll be fine. You might end up wanting to throw a boost in front but it isn't necessary.
I have a huge fear if rays.
#37
I've been considering a Jet City amp. My budget is around 900-1000 for a head and cab and I was wondering if the distortion on this is good for thrash metal and Petrucci-ish style metal and I was wondering if it has a good clean too.
#38
read this whole thread
Quote by alm0st a skat3r
yeah i remember when i had a good conscience. now i dont give a ****

xxx
smoke weed, drink 40's, **** titties
#39
Quote by Shredx
Wish they did a 20 watt one with 2 channels with the brown eye mod, it would then be my ideal choice for a small tube amp

+1, would be awesome.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#40
The Brown-Eye bumps it up to $399 right? I wonder if they'll allow people to send theirs in to have the mod done at a later time...
I play Lacrosse, you should too
Quote by reeses
heed this man's suggestion, for he is wise.

Aww shucks...

Quote by Tom 1.0
Oh and wait for the Schecter fan boys, if you listen real hard you can already hear them coming.