Do you believe sex crimes (especially towards children) are worse crimes than murder?

Poll: Are sex crimes worse than murder?
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View poll results: Are sex crimes worse than murder?
Yes
64 39%
No
102 61%
Voters: 166.
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#1
I ask this question because I've picked up from my time here in some of the debate threads that some people believe this, and at first I thought it was just an odd few people but apparently it's a significant amount. I was hoping somebody could elaborate on that a bit, because I personally don't see how any temporary pain/discomfort/suffering you inflict on a person (and yes, I'm considering psychological pain when I say this) can possibly be worse than simply taking their life away, permanently.

This is not a thread for being nasty and thinking up awful things to say about rapists, pedophiles, and murderers, although I'm sure there'll be a good amount of that anyway, but rather discussing why society has such an extreme bias towards sex crimes.

Some good insight and a great way to sum up the question:
Quote by Våd Hamster
Being molested or raped is probably the most depraved thing a human can go through. I don't think anyone that's been through it ever forgets, or fully gets over it.

In that perspective, I could imagine people believing that having your life 'broken' is worse than simply having it taken.

The real question is, is a life lived in pain better than no life to live at all?
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#2
Let's just say if someone ****ed me up the ass when I was younger I would still be angry and disturbed by it now. However if someone shot me in the head I would have no idea what had happened and would have no thought on the matter.
#3
yes.

it's one thing to kill someone. it's another to take their soul and sentence them to life.
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#4
crimes against children are, to me, generally worse than crimes against adults, regardless of whether it's rape or murder.
#5
Some people raped as children eveuntally killed themselves, this is a worst crime then a quick shot to the head.
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#6
Quote by Greenie_777
Let's just say if someone ****ed me up the ass when I was younger I would still be angry and disturbed by it now. However if someone shot me in the head I would have no idea what had happened and would have no thought on the matter.

That wasn't quite the point.
Quote by MakinLattes
crimes against children are, to me, generally worse than crimes against adults, regardless of whether it's rape or murder.

That's also sort of a different topic altogether. Try a simple scenario: A man rapes a young child. Another man kills a young child. Which one committed the worse crime?
Quote by GbAdimDb5m7
Some people raped as children eveuntally killed themselves, this is a worst crime then a quick shot to the head.

...What makes you say that?
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#7
I say no. I'd rather be raped than dead.
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#8
Nopes. My opinion is that as long as the person is still alive, there is still a chance of (even if only partial) recovery, a chance of still doing something worthwhile in life. Murdering is robbing someone of that chance. So I believe there is nothing worse than murder.

(I also believe oblivion is worse than suffering.)

Although, many times, sex crimes end in murder. But I'm not considering that.
#9
A child's innocence is one thing that shouldn't be fucked with. I agree with sex crimes on children being worse than murder.
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#11
Quote by GodofCheesecake

...What makes you say that?


After the rape, they are left with emotinal scars, they try to deal with it but it takes years, Sometimes it works, Sometimes it doesnt, if it doesnt work they usually kill themselves, Id say a couple of years of suffering followed by death is a worst punishment then a quick death.
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#12
Rape will most likely lead to the victim shying away from society and constantly seeking protection or the suicide of the victim
Whilst murder could lead to people comitting suicide over the lost one, depression of many people and a lot of missed car insurance payments.
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#13
Quote by Greenie_777
Let's just say if someone ****ed me up the ass when I was younger I would still be angry and disturbed by it now. However if someone shot me in the head I would have no idea what had happened and would have no thought on the matter.


This, basically.

But, on the other hand, the psychological damage from sexual abuse can sometimes be fixed, albeit through years of therapy. Whereas there's no reversing death.
#14
Being molested or raped is probably the most depraved thing a human can go through. I don't think anyone that's been through it ever forgets, or fully gets over it.

In that perspective, I could imagine people believing that having your life 'broken' is worse than simply having it taken. There's probably also some religious stuff in there- If you die you go to heaven, simple stuff, but if you're raped, well... In some cultures, you'll be forever defiled, dehumanized, and possibly killed.

Death is just more simple. Painless.


BTW, I don't think a 'worse than' approach applies here. Both are atrocious crimes that should not befall anyone. Then there's of course death penalty of murderers and such, but that's a whole 'nother debate.


The real question is, is a life lived in pain better than no life to live at all?
Last edited by Våd Hamster at Aug 8, 2010,
#15
Sexual abuse of a child or anyone else = Lasting mental damage to the victim, emotional damage is almost fully received by the victim.

Murder = Mental stability of victim remains as the victim is dead, however, there's a great deal of emotional pain for the family and friends to deal with.

So really, the emotional side of the crime still exists, it's just distributed about a lot more when there's a murder.

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#16
No, I don't see how rape could be worse than murder.
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#17
Well seeing as maybe I got it wrong. I'm really not sure as I don't consider death a bad thing to the person killed as they know nothing of it. Then again after rape they may be able to enjoy their lives after the incident.

I remain undecided.
#19
Quote by GbAdimDb5m7
After the rape, they are left with emotinal scars, they try to deal with it but it takes years, Sometimes it works, Sometimes it doesnt, if it doesnt work they usually kill themselves, Id say a couple of years of suffering followed by death is a worst punishment then a quick death.

I realize that rape can leave a lot of trauma and emotional baggage, but it's absolutely a stretch to say that rape victims "usually" kill themselves. There have been plenty of people who have gone through molestation who have gone on to lead happy and productive lives, whereas I'm pretty sure nobody who's been murdered has gone on to have a productive life.

Furthermore, if a person commits suicide after being raped, that is in no way the rapist's fault. He should be held accountable for the rape alone; the suicide was entirely the choice of the victim.
Quote by Vad
The real question is, is a life lived in pain better than no life to live at all?
That is actually a brilliant summary. I think I'll add it to the OP.
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Last edited by GodofCheesecake at Aug 8, 2010,
#20
Quote by primusfan
yes.

it's one thing to kill someone. it's another to take their soul and sentence them to life.


Exactly this.
#21
I don't make a distinction between the two in terms of severity. One takes life, the other can break it. Both pretty much suck.

One thing I've seen is that people seem to think rape has a single victim, or that the family doesn't suffer as much. How would you feel if your child was raped? You'd probably feel pretty broken yourself.

Quote by GodofCheesecake

Furthermore, if a person commits suicide after being raped, that is in no way the rapist's fault. He should be held accountable for the rape alone; the suicide was entirely the choice of the victim.


Hold on a second. That I disagree with. Have you ever been at such an extreme of an emotion where you did something that you wouldn't normally do? Something that you then thought "f*cking hell, what did I do that for?" It wasn't your choice, it was done out of stress or blindness or whatever. A rape victim that commits suicide because of that rape has not done it out of choice. Certainly not a sane choice. Extreme situations impair judgement. To say it's their choice is, frankly, bloody stupid.
#22
Quote by Våd Hamster
Being molested or raped is probably the most depraved thing a human can go through. I don't think anyone that's been through it ever forgets, or fully gets over it.

In that perspective, I could imagine people believing that having your life 'broken' is worse than simply having it taken. There's probably also some religious stuff in there- If you die you go to heaven, simple stuff, but if you're raped, well... In some cultures, you'll be forever defiled, dehumanized, and possibly killed.

Death is just more simple. Painless.


BTW, I don't think a 'worse than' approach applies here. Both are atrocious crimes that should not befall anyone. Then there's of course death penalty of murderers and such, but that's a whole 'nother debate.


The real question is, is a life lived in pain better than no life to live at all?


Very eloquently put. One more thing I have to add to the argument though is the transition to death. Who said it was painless? I'm fairly sure that most people murdered suffer quite a deal of pain first, rather than it being painless as mentioned by several people already.

I have to agree that there is no worse and both crimes are vile. However, I think one can be justified in cases (defense, war) as opposed to rape. I guess I'm just on the fence about this.
#23
doesnt matter which is worse
theyre both ****ed up and both deserve a life sentence
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#24
Raping someone seems more inhuman than murder to me, although i know I'm wrong.

Quote by Karl Pilkington
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#25
Quote by meow1992
doesnt matter which is worse
theyre both ****ed up

I'm not disagreeing with that at all, just to be clear.
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clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

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#26
Quote by blake1221
I have to agree that there is no worse and both crimes are vile. However, I think one can be justified in cases (defense, war) as opposed to rape. I guess I'm just on the fence about this.
Hm. I think we're not dealing with attenuating circumstances here. Just the act of unjustified murder. Of course rape is never justifiable.
#27
You know what, i think I want to change my vote.

It takes a worse person to rape than it does to kill although i'd prefer to be raped.

Quote by Karl Pilkington
Jellyfish are 97% water or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3% and make them water. It's more useful."
#28
If your raped you still get to live and could recover. If your murdered, there is no chance of recovery. "No" is the logically correct vote.
#29
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Hold on a second. That I disagree with. Have you ever been at such an extreme of an emotion where you did something that you wouldn't normally do? Something that you then thought "f*cking hell, what did I do that for?" It wasn't your choice, it was done out of stress or blindness or whatever. A rape victim that commits suicide because of that rape has not done it out of choice. Certainly not a sane choice. Extreme situations impair judgement. To say it's their choice is, frankly, bloody stupid.

I might have been a bit hasty by using absolutes, there. Of course going through something like that would put the victim in an extreme emotional state that the rapist would be responsible for- however, I'm still not willing to say that if the victim later killed themselves, it would be the rapist's fault. That's like saying that if I insulted you until you were so angry that you killed me, you wouldn't be responsible because your extreme emotional state made you do something you wouldn't normally do.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
#30
Quote by meow1992
doesnt matter which is worse
theyre both ****ed up and both deserve a life sentence


They're not fucked up in some situations
They made me do push ups in drag

I'm gonna have a really hard time if we're both cannibals and racists.

Don't dress as a whore, he'll thump you.

I'm a firework, primed to go off
#31
Under no circumstances I can presently think of are crimes of a sexual nature worse than murder.
#32
Quote by GodofCheesecake
I might have been a bit hasty by using absolutes, there. Of course going through something like that would put the victim in an extreme emotional state that the rapist would be responsible for- however, I'm still not willing to say that if the victim later killed themselves, it would be the rapist's fault. That's like saying that if I insulted you until you were so angry that you killed me, you wouldn't be responsible because your extreme emotional state made you do something you wouldn't normally do.


Hence the introduction of voluntary manslaughter to law.
#33
Quote by Mudmen190
Under no circumstances I can presently think of are crimes of a sexual nature worse than murder.



To rape someone you've got to force yourself onto someone crying, struggling and begging for you to stop though. Then you just leave them there. It takes a right Cunt to do that.

Quote by Karl Pilkington
Jellyfish are 97% water or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3% and make them water. It's more useful."
#34
I worked with children for a living and have seen kids who've gone through this and it's horrible. Even though I've spent years being trained how, it's hard to give advice and counsel when you yourself don't believe it's going to have much affect.

I do have to say though, whoever commits sex crimes towards children almost always have mental instability, such as a personality disorder, or had experienced such acts to themselves. The authorities surprisingly enough don't do much to keep these acts under control. I think at the first indication of a potential offender the authorities should step in and provide assistance through counseling or medication until improvement is noted.

I however voted no. I think in the case of other then manslaughter and a murder in the heat of passion or in vengeance that it would be.
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#35
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Hence the introduction of voluntary manslaughter to law.

I'm aware that it's a lesser offense, but you'd still be held accountable. You still made the choice, whether or not it was guided by extreme emotion. So does a person who commits suicide. I'm not at all trying to diminish the impact being raped has on a person, but the punishment for that should be covered in the rape charge.
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#37
I'd say there the same. Someone who rapes another person should get charged the same as someone who murders somebody.

But only if its obvious that its a rape...some girl can just say that, or some parent can say that about their child. But if there's evidence, they should definitely be charged like a murderer. Either way, your taking their normal life away from them.

I'm not saying its any worse than murder, though.


Terrible how being caught with some drugs will charge you like a murderer (no exaggeration, if its a hard enough drug, and they believe you have intent to sell, they will charge you with manslaughter), yet rape doesn't have nearly enough consequences as it should.

But of course, its all about context. There's a difference between abducting a child into a van, and some slut getting mad at a guy and saying he raped her.
#38
I'm not sure. I mean, child rape is awful...but I'd rather be raped than dead.
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#39
I agree with this man





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#40
Quote by Todd Hart
I'm not sure. I mean, child rape is awful...but I'd rather be raped than dead.


Either way you'll die eventually...so would you rather die with or without your dignity?
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