#1
Hey guys.

This isn't a thread to recommend me an amp for myself. It is more for the other guitarist in my band. You see we play in a gothic metal band and right now he is having problems cutting through the mix due to the fact he is using a line 6 HD147 Head.

I am using the gear listed in my sig and he is wanting to get an tube amp now so he can cut through the mix and compliment my sound well.

Currently he is looking at the framus cobra and I was wondering on what your thoughts were on this amp, and experience with it cutting through the mix? Whatever he gets needs to have Midi capability, an effects loop and needs to compete with my savage.

Budget £1600 for the head. All recommendations and comments welcome.

EDIT:

Update.

Me and the other guitarist in my band went and tried out an ENGL Invader today as well as an ENGL Steve Morse signature and we both fell in love with the Invader.

I have to say that amp first and foremost has the most amazing clean sound I have ever heard from a metal amp. It has the warmth of a vox with the bell like bright chime of a fender blackface. Amazing clean sound. Channel 2 can go from blues breakup to marshall crunch. Channel 3 is brutal and refined. The amp is so versatile and just plain awesome sounding that hes already wanting to buy it.

Thanks for all your advice guys. Looks like the band will be running an ENGL Savage and an ENGL Invader
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Last edited by Talentless at Sep 12, 2010,
#2
i'm guessing something a bit darker in tone? other than that... I haven't tried the cobra, but it's probably worth considering...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#6
Used ENGL Invader
Hughes and Kettner Trinity or Coreblade
Used Diezel Einstein
Marshall JVM
Used Fryette Deliverance, SIG:X
Maybe a used Soldano Hot Rod, or Jet City JCA100
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#7
I like my Invader, and it seems like everyone is recommending one so I'll hop on board. Cuts like a knife through a mix.

First guy recommended a Cobra, and if you can dial one in right those things are hellish. I've heard a lot of people dislike them but the one I tried was great.

My 2 cents.
#8
Thanks for all the recommendations guys. I will put them to him see which he likes the most. I think i'm liking the VHT Sig X atm myself.
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Stinnett M7 in the works
#10
why not get another Savage.....

other than than either another ENGL (i's go with an Invader) or a used Diezel (not sure how much they would be but try and get either an Einstein or Herbert) would work pretty nicely.

i wouldn't look into the MkV mainly cos its not Midi capable, not sure about Mk4's midi stuff but that would work well with the Savage
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#11
Meh on the mark iv. Sounds great, but when played at the same time as my fireball, sounds like a little girl. I don't think it's the best compliment to the savage.
/rig
#12
I don't think the Blackmore is MIDI capable unfortunately, it uses the Z-5 instead. If it were then that would be awesome. If you want a pair of ENGLs then the Invader would be "teh br00tz".
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#13
Ok lets backtrack...

The ENGL savage is like a glorified 5150. It soundes better and is more aggressive, punchy, blah blah it's just better.

A boosted Mesa Rectifier is usually a very good partner for a 5150, complementing it with smoother mids, bigger lows and creamier highs.

A Bogner Uberschall is like a glorified rectifier with all the good characteristics without the bad crackling, fizzy and unclear undertones.

Due to all that ^ I believe a Bogner Uberschall twin jet would be a very good amp to complement your ENGL savage. It sounds like a good idea that your other guitarist wants to improve his tone and move away from the treble frequecies to cut through. If he indeed goes through with these suggestions, it sounds like your band has the potential to land some good gigs and become very popular very quickly.

All the best of luck to you
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#14
Quote by Hidden Hippo
I don't think the Blackmore is MIDI capable unfortunately, it uses the Z-5 instead. If it were then that would be awesome. If you want a pair of ENGLs then the Invader would be "teh br00tz".

Manual says it can be used with a midi switcher.
#15
Quote by Guitar-KID125
Ok lets backtrack...

The ENGL savage is like a glorified 5150. It soundes better and is more aggressive, punchy, blah blah it's just better.

A boosted Mesa Rectifier is usually a very good partner for a 5150, complementing it with smoother mids, bigger lows and creamier highs.

A Bogner Uberschall is like a glorified rectifier with all the good characteristics without the bad crackling, fizzy and unclear undertones.

Due to all that ^ I believe a Bogner Uberschall twin jet would be a very good amp to complement your ENGL savage. It sounds like a good idea that your other guitarist wants to improve his tone and move away from the treble frequecies to cut through. If he indeed goes through with these suggestions, it sounds like your band has the potential to land some good gigs and become very popular very quickly.

All the best of luck to you


See hes very fond of the sound of recto's so the uberschall would definately work.....

Thank you kindly, we already have a great sound as it is, its just to get that last bit of oomph he really want's to improve his sound, because at the moment its my setup providing most of the wow.

Going to check prices of bogner uberschalls now but I think they are very pricey.

EDIT : The Uberschall has no midi switching? Dammit! Best choice at the moment may be the Hughes and Kettner Triamp.
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Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
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Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
Last edited by Talentless at Aug 11, 2010,
#17
By MIDI capability do you mean MIDI channel switching? That's easy to obtain with a switching unit so you don't have to restrict yourself to one of a few amps.

I'm not totally sure I understand what gothic metal is (metal with a nice Bach organ fugue thrown in? Visigoths playing metal?) but I would suggest maybe a Soldano Lucky 13 or something. Maybe that's too expensive - I don't know what they cost in the UK. But it WILL cut, especially if you get it with the DeYoung transformer upgrade.
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#18
Thanks for all the help guys.

I do believe the other guitarist in my band is now either going for the Framus Cobra or an ENGL Invader.

Two great amps, will be interesting to see how the band sounds when he has his new amp compared to the line 6 he currently uses!
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#19
Quote by Even Bigger D
By MIDI capability do you mean MIDI channel switching? That's easy to obtain with a switching unit so you don't have to restrict yourself to one of a few amps.

I'm not totally sure I understand what gothic metal is (metal with a nice Bach organ fugue thrown in? Visigoths playing metal?) but I would suggest maybe a Soldano Lucky 13 or something. Maybe that's too expensive - I don't know what they cost in the UK. But it WILL cut, especially if you get it with the DeYoung transformer upgrade.

I thought Mike didn't sell DeYoungs?

Or is that a mod you have to send to him to get done?

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#20
Quote by CL/\SH
I thought Mike didn't sell DeYoungs?

Or is that a mod you have to send to him to get done?



He doesn't sell them, but you can get them installed new in the mid-range amps. Probably as a factory mod. So you can get a Hot Rod 100, Lucky 13 etc with DeYoungs.

Or you can put in O'Netics after market. Good iron.
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“Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting” - Papa Wallenda
Substitute the stage for the wire, and he's got it.
#21
Quote by enselmis

First guy recommended a Cobra, and if you can dial one in right those things are hellish. I've heard a lot of people dislike them but the one I tried was great.


ah i didn't recommend the cobra, I was just mentioning it as he'd mentioned it in his original question
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
The Cobra seems a very good package for the price.

£1541 for a framus cobra with built in midi interface, 3 channels and from what I have heard great tone.

Active EQ and lots of tone shaping features too....

Only thing that comes close really is the ENGL Invader or of course a savage but I don't think another savage is a great Idea really as there needs to be a bit of a contrast.
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#23
I'm really enjoying the Invader love going on in this thread. You really can dial in anything with it.

All clips in my profile except 1 are done with the Invader.
#24
I'm gonna join everyone and say the Invader. I love mine, even though I'm thinking of selling it. It has a more organic and open sound then say a powerball or fireball.
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#25
Actually after being unable to find a Cobra to try out in the UK, we are going to try out an invader not this saturday but next. Will be in the market to buy one hopefully if he likes what he hears.
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#27
In the future who knows! The band already sounds very good and im quite picky when it comes to music. With me using a Savage and the other guitarist using the Invader we should sound great! Would love an ENGL Sponsorship....

Savage to gig with and a Gigmaster to noodle around on
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Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#28
I'd probably get something more American like a second-hand Soldano Decatone or Fryette Sig:X

You could also go for a Diezel Einstein or even a VH4. I think they'd pair with an ENGL quite nicely.
#29
I think that the ENGL Invader is an incredible amp. Tried one and I couldn't stop playing it. Another great amp would be the Triamp (which you mentioned). The H&K Triamp is the best amp on the market IMO. And prices for purchasing them 'new' went down recently in the US (maybe internationally?)

I've never been able to dial in a good setting for the Framus Cobra. The clean channel is okay, but I take it that clean sounds are a secondary priority to the distortion.


Diezel's are awesome, but I like the ENGL and H&K sounds better. Plus the Triamp has awesome LED's! I MEAN REALLY, LOOK AT THAT


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Last edited by Junnage at Aug 25, 2010,
#30
If he doesn't like the ENGL I may get him to try out a Triamp. However the issue is with finding places that stocks the amps in the UK. I emailed the official UK distributor for ENGL and the closest place that had an ENGL Invader in was in peterborough which is a 2 hour 20 minute drive from where we live.

The triamp will be even harder to find im afraid.
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#31
Quote by Talentless
If he doesn't like the ENGL I may get him to try out a Triamp. However the issue is with finding places that stocks the amps in the UK. I emailed the official UK distributor for ENGL and the closest place that had an ENGL Invader in was in peterborough which is a 2 hour 20 minute drive from where we live.

The triamp will be even harder to find im afraid.

Oh man, that's rough. I remember how hard it was finding an ENGL and a Triamp. I live around New York and I had to go all the way to Boston and then to D.C. (basically 4 hour drives in both directions) just to find them!

Hopefully, the Invader will be what he likes then! It is truly an incredible amp. It's not as tight as the Powerball, but it's warmer and more organic than the Powerball. Plus it also looks pretty badass.
My Gear:
Guitars:
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 in Charcoal Burst

Amps:
ENGL Powerball I V2

Pedals:
Ibanez Jemini
Vintage '70s Thomas Organ Crybaby Wah
Boss DD-6
#32
Quote by Talentless
If he doesn't like the ENGL I may get him to try out a Triamp. However the issue is with finding places that stocks the amps in the UK. I emailed the official UK distributor for ENGL and the closest place that had an ENGL Invader in was in peterborough which is a 2 hour 20 minute drive from where we live.

The triamp will be even harder to find im afraid.
Merchant City Music stock H&K gear.

Also there is a really nice guy who stocks all the Fryette gear, if you're interested, and he lives near Barnsely, North of England. He's not a shop; he's a guitar maker who also happens to be a stockist.

And you can find Diezel products either in London (the main UK distribution) or Exeter (Manson's).
#33
Quote by Junnage
Oh man, that's rough. I remember how hard it was finding an ENGL and a Triamp. I live around New York and I had to go all the way to Boston and then to D.C. (basically 4 hour drives in both directions) just to find them!

Hopefully, the Invader will be what he likes then! It is truly an incredible amp. It's not as tight as the Powerball, but it's warmer and more organic than the Powerball. Plus it also looks pretty badass.


Hopefully he will like it. He has played my savage several times and likes the tone of the savage a lot, especially the lead channel. He doesn't want to sound just like me however and the Invader already has a midi interface and a noisegate integrated so it is less stuff for him to buy after the head. All he should need is a rackmount effects processor and a floor board and hes good to go!

With the Savage Im using 4U units of rackspace for midi, rocktron and an additional noisegate. He will be spared that fate xD
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#34
Update.

Me and the other guitarist in my band went and tried out an ENGL Invader today as well as an ENGL Steve Morse signature and we both fell in love with the Invader.

I have to say that amp first and foremost has the most amazing clean sound I have ever heard from a metal amp. It has the warmth of a vox with the bell like bright chime of a fender blackface. Amazing clean sound. Channel 2 can go from blues breakup to marshall crunch. Channel 3 is brutal and refined. The amp is so versatile and just plain awesome sounding that hes already wanting to buy it.

Thanks for all your advice guys. Looks like the band will be running an ENGL Savage and an ENGL Invader
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#35
NAD in the near future?

(It's not yours, but you can post some Savage/Invader pr0n anyway.)


(Note to self: Form a hair metal band named "Savage Invader".)
#36
Quote by TheQuailman
"Savage Invader".)


Sounds Painful!

In the future definitely. We go in studio december to record our demo and the tracks will be posted onto our myspace. Amps will be used in the demo, I will be running my new Ibanez J Custom S8570-HG into my setup below and our other guitarist uses a Gibson SG which will be running into the Invader. Should be a tone orgasm! Will post a NAD and full review and of course links to streams of tracks then
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#37
I tried the Steve Morse ENGL the other day and it was stunning. The best ENGL amp I've tried yet. One of the only ones I like, in fact.
#38
We tried the steve morse out too but preferred the Invader. Channel 2 was very similar to the invader and channel 3 on the steve morse was similar to the invader channel 3 but more tweakable however the selling point was the invader cleans tbh. Really stunning with the bright switch engaged, the morse lacks the bright switch which is a bummer! I liked the eq on the morse however, being able to crank lower mids and scoop out upper mids is great
My Gear

Ibanez J Custom RG8570Z-BX - BKP Warpigs
ESP Eclipse II Full Thickness - BKP Nailbombs
Fender Mexican Strat - BKP Trilogy Suites.

Axe FX II - Matrix GT1000FX - Rocktron All Access.

Stinnett M7 in the works
#39
1600 pounds, thats like 2500 dollars right? lets see,

diezel einstein
mesa boogie single rectifier
laboga mr. hector duo master.

or maybe you want to get a seperate preamp, like the Engl E 570 Special Edition Preamp? i dunno.
#40
Quote by Talentless
Thanks for all the help guys.

I do believe the other guitarist in my band is now either going for the Framus Cobra or an ENGL Invader.

Two great amps, will be interesting to see how the band sounds when he has his new amp compared to the line 6 he currently uses!


I wish my other guitarist would look into either of those

Gotta' say though, I'd throw my hat in with the Uberschall. Very pricey, so he'd have to go used, but the sound would mesh well.

Also:

http://www.rjmmusic.com/miniampgizmo.php

sadly, doesn't work with the uber yet... VHT anyone?