#2
if you have all true bypass pedals in a long effects chain then you will suffer signal loss, the electricity basically loses the energy to go from pedal to pedal, so the visual sound bypass gives it the energy to continue.
#3
"True bypass" means that when your pedal is switched off, then there's a direct connection straight from the input to the output. Effectively, when it's off, it's like another piece of cable between the guitar and the amp.

People have mixed opinions on this. Many believe it's the best way to go, because there's nothing to interfere with your signal. However, if you have a whole bunch of pedals hooked up one after the other, you're playing through a very very long cable, and there's bound to be a bit of signal loss.

Buffers counteract this. From what I understand, the signal is still boosted slightly even when the pedal is off. This drains battery life, but is useful if you use many pedals. Some people don't like this because they think it affects the tone when the pedal is off.

Ultimately, the best way to decide is to listen.
#4
It's just visual sound trying to sell you things. All they've done is created the worst possible situation for a TBP pedal, and one you'd never come across if you were smart about making your pedalboard.

A buffer drives long cables; TPB does not. One good buffer at the beginning of your signal chain is enough to drive the entire length of the chain. They're just trying to tell you that their pedals are better because they have buffers in them, which isn't a bad thing in itself, but they've completely rigged the situation towards their product.

If you had 19 TBP pedals on a board and one in front of them that was buffered, and 20 Visual Sound pedals on another board, you wouldn't hear any difference. The only difference is, VS is trying to convince you that your tone is going to suck unless you have all VS pedals on your board.
#5
but from the difference i heard along a 25ft cable its hardly worth complaining about if you are only using a 2m cable. i bet with anything that short you cant even tell

edit: yeah i typed this before i saw the other replies, so it is what i thought then. them rigging a situation to their advantage...
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Last edited by Dave Frenzy at Aug 10, 2010,
#6
it means he's trying to hawk his pedals

srsly, though, true bypass is good and sounds very natural, but you lose top end. Personally i'd try to use mostly true bypass pedals, with one or two buffers in there (probably standalone ones, so you can turn them off to hear the difference). if a pedal has a good buffer, that'd be ok too.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#7
Quote by Dave Frenzy
but from the difference i heard along a 25ft cable its hardly worth complaining about if you are only using a 2m cable. i bet with anything that short you cant even tell

I'd bet anything he was using the crappiest, cheapest 25 foot cable he could find for that, too. The guy sure knows how to sell old news.
#9
Quote by Roc8995
I'd bet anything he was using the crappiest, cheapest 25 foot cable he could find for that, too. The guy sure knows how to sell old news.


yeah, i mean don't trust anyone, but really don't trust someone who's trying to sell you something and who's set up the test him/herself. you have no way of knowing how fair a test it is.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
It is because all electrical wires have some amount of resistance to electron flow. Along with this the gain or amplitude of the signal will also suffer some loss. If you have a sensitive enough ohm meter check the resistance of a 100 foot wire vs a 3 inch wire. It will show more resistance in ohms in the 100' wire than the 3" wire. Granted it won't be much but if your starting with a weak signal like those that come from a guitar the drop can be quite enough to affect the tone due to signal loss. Active pickup systems were designed to combat this problem but a signal booster if done right will accomplish the same thing.
So if your pedal chain ads up to a long run even when all the pedals are in bypass mode you will suffer signal/gain/amplitude loss.
Last edited by sparkeyjames at Aug 10, 2010,
#11
Sparky, what's more important than the resistance of the cable is the capacitance. The input circuit is already a high resistance so the added resistance of the cable means very little. The capacitance is between signal and ground so it shorts the high frequencies to ground. It's low impedance to ground, not high resistance that causes tone suck.
#12
Quote by fly135
Sparky, what's more important than the resistance of the cable is the capacitance. The input circuit is already a high resistance so the added resistance of the cable means very little. The capacitance is between signal and ground so it shorts the high frequencies to ground. It's low impedance to ground, not high resistance that causes tone suck.


We are both in part correct but still not spot on. I think this explains it far better....

http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/suck.htm
#13
Generally speaking stacking buffered pedals one after another is bad. It depends on what the buffers are, but often it causes high end loss and general muddiness as you add more. The ideal situation is to have a single very transparent buffer at the start of the chain that's always on, and then everything after that either true bypass or hooked up to a true bypass looper.
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#14
Quote by sparkeyjames
We are both in part correct but still not spot on. I think this explains it far better....

http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/suck.htm

didnt bother reading the link, but fly is more correct. its actually the combination of resistance and capacitance that creates the treble bleed, but the capacitance is the big player. if you just had a purely resistive wire, you wouldnt have the same type of loss. you would just lose volume. the capacitor is what actually is bleeding the high frequencies to ground. the longer the cable, the more resistance. the more resistance, the lower the corner frequency and the more high end you have sent to ground.
#15
Quote by Even Bigger D
Generally speaking stacking buffered pedals one after another is bad. It depends on what the buffers are, but often it causes high end loss and general muddiness as you add more. The ideal situation is to have a single very transparent buffer at the start of the chain that's always on, and then everything after that either true bypass or hooked up to a true bypass looper.


yeah, that's the other thing, buffers can interact etc. too. generally speaking, you want enough to do the job, but not too many.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?