Page 1 of 6
#1
I just found this on facebook. It was a published note. Just read through it, it's probably worth it.

No tl;dr. The basic fact is in the title.
Hey Everyone,

For the past 5 years my brothers in Oh, Sleeper and myself have sacrificed our lives, our time, relationships, birthdays, holidays, health(haha) to travel around and play shows for our fans. Not to say that isn't been a fun ride!

I would just like to bring a few things to our fans attention:

I would like to show you guys an average day in finances for a "mid-level" band like us. Im going to breakdown the average monetary in and outs of a day on tour.

On tour bands have two ways to make money. Guaranties, and Merchandise.

On tour bands have big bills. The biggest are: Managers, Booking agent, Merch Rates, Merch bills, Food, and of course.. the Gas bill.

Our last headliner tour was an east coast run with 3 other bands. The average guaranty per band was 300$ per band, and around 300$ in merch. This was the average for all 4 bands, for the entire tour.

So we have a 600$ gross income per night. Now lets break this down.

Merchandise is bough, printed, and shipped on the bands dollar. We print most our shirts on American Apparel. They obviously offer the best fitting shirts, and kids are smart about looking good now days. They wont sell unless you have slim fitting, soft shirts. The demand for better quality shirts from bands is higher in last few years.

American Apparel shirts are very pricey to print. usually $7.50 a shirt. More for v-necks, 3/4 sleeve shirts, etc.

We sell our shirts for 15$ at our shows, UNLESS we are on tour with a headliner that demands we price match them.

SO $15 - $7.50 = $7.50. So half is profit. So out of the 300$ the band made in merch, they owe 150$ to the printer.

BUT HOLD ON! Merch rates!

Most nice venues have merch rates, we have seen them be as high 32% gross. Usually they are 25%.

-----

So out of the initial $300 in merch the band made. 25% goes to venue. Thats $75.

$300(gross) - $150(merch cost) - $75(merch venue rate) = $75 (Net profit for the band.)

BUT the breakdown doesnt stop there. If the band has a manager, he takes 15% of Net profit of merch.

SO MERCH TOTAL PER NIGHT:

$75 X .15 = $11.25

$75 - $11.15 = $63.75( TOTAL Net profit in merch for the band.)

--------

Guaranties:

The breakdown in deductions from this money is: 15% to Manager, 10% to booking agent.

$300(gross guaranty) - $45(managers cut 15%) - $30(booking agents cut 10%) = $225

Average Gas bill is around $150. some days way better some days way worse. We have done 17 hour drives..leaveing show and showing up to next one right before we play...many times. Those are a bit more expensive. Most west coast tours we do the average gas bill is around 200-250...but ill use 150 for this example.

$225(guaranty after manage and agent deductions) - $150(gas bill) = $75

We have 6 people on tour, our 5 Guys, and our merch guy "The maze". We give everyone $10 bucks a day to eat on. (This isnt enough when your 6 4 and 200lbs like micah and i by the way)

6 people x $10 = $60

$75 - $60 = $15

$15 Total net profit in Guaranties.

-------

$63.75(Net merch) + $15(Net guaranty) =

$78.75 for the band for the night. out of $600 gross.

if you divide that 6 ways its $13.12 a day per band member.

-------

This doesnt include hotel costs. which are usually 50-60 bucks. Most bands dont get hotels or shower to save money to pay for phone bills.

This does not include Tires/Van payment/Oil changes/Van upkeep registration bla bla/Trailer tires/Gear/etc.

This doesnt include taxes. This doesnt include ROAD TOLLS. Which in the northeast can add up to 20-40bucks a day.

Thanks for reading.

MERCH RATES HAVE TO GO.
STOP STEALING OUR CDs PLEASE.
WE DONT MAKE MONEY WHEN YOU BUY IT FROM STORES, COME TO SHOWS.
WE DONT MAKE MONEY FROM LABELS.
BUY MERCH FROM US AT SHOWS IF YOU LIKE WHAT WERE DOING.


thanks for reading.

shane

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=111952525523252&id=1297394525
Last edited by Craigo at Aug 11, 2010,
#5
They could cut costs by not being prima donnas and dragging along an unnecessary merch guy. I went to see Classics of Love with Mike Park and after the show Jesse Michaels and MP were behind the table themselves. Some of the stuff they were selling wasn't even making them money, the profit was going to an all-ages space in L.A.
#6
That just tells me that in order to be successful, I must hold the CEO of a record company at gunpoint and demand a deal.

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#7
Quote by valennic
That just tells me that in order to be successful, I must hold the CEO of a record company at gunpoint and demand a deal.


Or become the CEO of your own record company, sign a good deal to your band, and make your profits on other bands you'll sign.
Need fashion advice?

Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I wish I had a dick like a black guy instead of my little white dick.

Quote by JoelTheShredder
i love you more than words can express jean.


I saw Rick Astley in Quebec City, on April 10th 2009. Best day of my life!
#8
That's really quite a shame for those kind of bands, hopefully the increase in internet sales can help money go straight to the artists, but I guess music in general just isn't really a way to get rich quick.
#9
Quote by valennic
That just tells me that in order to be successful, I must hold the CEO of a record company at gunpoint and demand a deal.

Pretty much http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.negativland.com%2Falbini.html&ei=QeNiTOaPNNvNjAfh2rSdCQ&usg=AFQjCNFPrQdAeFX091F_1lnn1jLpY4qGKQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiitifPJkow
#10
That sucks dude,

Music is dying. Unless your a hermanphrodite, a small homosexual child, or a former member of a boy band; you're pretty much f*cked when it comes to modern day breakout bands
How many guitar players does it take to change a light bulb?

Twelve. One to change the bulb and eleven to say they could do it better.

#11
STOP STEALING OUR CDs PLEASE.
WE DONT MAKE MONEY WHEN YOU BUY IT FROM STORES, COME TO SHOWS


So why should people not just download the music and then come to the show?

This just sounds like a typical cry-baby musician who thinks he shits gold but doesn't make as much money as he'd like and so decided to whine about it.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#12
Well...back to minumum wage, then....
If 4 more people tell me to go back to writing The Vanishing Point, I will.


UG's Commie Pinko Bedwetter
#13
D: this is major
Quote by DieGarbageMan
i can become erect whilst displeasing women




What a talented person.
#14
Bands act as if they are entitled to keep a significant amount of money for themselves to save/spend/whatever.

Its just like any other job you have. Most of your money goes to living expenses and bills (hotels, buses, and road managers) and you get a meager amount for yourself.

Even though you didnt make a lot of profit on the road, you were still living the dream for however long.
#15
Quote by JeanMi36
Or become the CEO of your own record company, sign a good deal to your band, and make your profits on other bands you'll sign.


Too much work

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#16
Quote by NickGiovanni
That sucks dude,

Music is dying. Unless your a hermanphrodite, a small homosexual child, or a former member of a boy band; you're pretty much f*cked when it comes to modern day breakout bands


Lady Gaga is NOT A FVCKING HERMAPHRODITE!

That was quite an interesting read.
He's a freak of nature, but we love him so.

Quote by John Frusciante
Music isn't the Olympics. It's not about showing other people what you can do with a piece of wood in your hands that has strings on, it's about making sounds that are good.
#17
Quote by NickGiovanni
That sucks dude,

Music is dying. Unless your a hermanphrodite, a small homosexual child, or a former member of a boy band; you're pretty much f*cked when it comes to modern day breakout bands

Music isn't dying, music is alive and well. The record companies however , who have been screwing bands over for years ARE dying. More people are actually going to live shows now than any other time in the last 20 years.

Your only way to exist in music is to stay in control of all the decisions instead of letting the industry slime screw you over. I do agree with the last bit though that 'breakout bands' are probably finished.

edit: There will always be the manufactured pop out there as long as there's a major label but when it comes to actual music , that won't die.
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Aug 11, 2010,
#18
Quote by valennic
Too much work


I can manage and sign your band

I'll take a 50% cut.
Need fashion advice?

Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I wish I had a dick like a black guy instead of my little white dick.

Quote by JoelTheShredder
i love you more than words can express jean.


I saw Rick Astley in Quebec City, on April 10th 2009. Best day of my life!
#19
Quote by 310320
Well...back to minumum wage, then....

Minimum wage is slightly higher than 13 dollars a night. I guess I'll have to convert to drums and become a two piece band like the Black Keys. Then I'll make cash money without having to split the dough with a worthless bassist and rhythm guitarist.

Edit: Wait, they have 6 band members?
Last edited by RU Experienced? at Aug 11, 2010,
#20
Quote by JeanMi36
I can manage and sign your band

I'll take a 50% cut.


45%

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#21
Quote by valennic
45%


47,5% and a piece of your sandwich.
Need fashion advice?

Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I wish I had a dick like a black guy instead of my little white dick.

Quote by JoelTheShredder
i love you more than words can express jean.


I saw Rick Astley in Quebec City, on April 10th 2009. Best day of my life!
#22
How can you equate hotels and food cost into the expenses? That's just living how a band live.

That's like me saying that my wage is lower than it is, because some of that money goes on the shower or the my food or my heating....That's the bloody point of money.

Quote by Karl Pilkington
Jellyfish are 97% water or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3% and make them water. It's more useful."
#23
Quote by JeanMi36
47,5% and a piece of your sandwich.


You drive a hard bargain.

What say you to 45%, and a WHOLE sammich.

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#24
$13.12 a day per band member


Wow. :\

That's pretty bad.

I think I'll go and buy one of their CD's, to support them now.

SlayingEdit:

Wait, $13.12 after all expenses are cared for. That's not bad, at least they're making a positive profit.
Last edited by SlayingDragons at Aug 11, 2010,
#25
I remember going to see Porcupine Tree in Orlando and the group Bigelf opened for them. About halfway through their set (Bigelf) somebody from the crowd got excited and yelled out, "Yeah!! Living the dream!!"

The vocalist/keyboard leader looked up, let out a little laugh and said, "Heh, You don't even know the half of it man..." His facial expression definitely changed when he said that. Afterwards they continued their set. It's a choice some folks make, to live a musician's life, and it really isn't as glamorous as a some might think it is.

Pursue your dream, but always have a backup plan if that dream doesn't flow with reality.
В словах есть что-то неприличное.
Last edited by Zaphikh at Aug 11, 2010,
#26
Quote by Todd Hart
So why should people not just download the music and then come to the show?

This just sounds like a typical cry-baby musician who thinks he shits gold but doesn't make as much money as he'd like and so decided to whine about it.

You know he's telling you not to not buy their music if you wish to possess it. He's also heavily suggesting that they might need more money than your entrance fee.

In the comments section of the article, he says he's 27 and has to live at his parent's house when he's not touring. When someone actually works hard at what they're doing and yet cannot afford accommodation, I think they can actually be disappointed when they're not earning as much money as they would like to.

EDIT: Lets put this in perspective. Take the punk band Rise Against. It took them over half a decade before they quit their day jobs between touring because they were finally making enough money, and that was a band who was pretty successful whilst they still had day jobs.
Last edited by Craigo at Aug 11, 2010,
#27
Quote by Jiggzy.UK
How can you equate hotels and food cost into the expenses? That's just living how a band live.

That's like me saying that my wage is lower than it is, because some of that money goes on the shower or the my food or my heating....That's the bloody point of money.


Exactly. It's ridiculous claiming that you only get a bit of money out of it after you've paid your bills, the sad fact of the matter is that's how the world turns.

And being in a mid-sized band isn't really a full time job, you could get a part time job on the side.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#28
Quote by valennic
You drive a hard bargain.

What say you to 45%, and a WHOLE sammich.


Okay. Deal.


I don't want to sound like a douche, but isn't it a choice that you make to tour, knowing your profit margin will be small?


Maybe, self-managing, if you have a good fanbase, you can get an endorsement. Advertising too.

I'd sell avertising space on the touring bus, on the guitars, on the drumkit...
Need fashion advice?

Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I wish I had a dick like a black guy instead of my little white dick.

Quote by JoelTheShredder
i love you more than words can express jean.


I saw Rick Astley in Quebec City, on April 10th 2009. Best day of my life!
#29
Quote by JeanMi36
Okay. Deal.


I don't want to sound like a douche, but isn't it a choice that you make to tour, knowing your profit margin will be small?


Maybe, self-managing, if you have a good fanbase, you can get an endorsement. Advertising too.

I'd sell avertising space on the touring bus, on the guitars, on the drumkit...




Yeah, I'd think so. I saw in a documentary during the school year, these two guys were essentially corporate billboards, and just for being walking advertisements, they made ASTRONOMICAL amounts of money. I wouldn't mind being a bit of a corporate ***** if I got to live a bit more comfortably on tour.

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#30
Quote by Craigo
You know he's telling you not to not buy their music if you wish to possess it.
He said no such thing.

He says to purchase their albums at their shows rather than through stores because they won't see any money through the latter scenario.

Edit: Nevermind, I got confused with the double "not"

In the comments section of the article, he says he's 27 and has to live at his parent's house when he's not touring. When someone actually works hard at what they're doing and yet cannot afford accommodation, I think they can actually be disappointed when they're not earning as much money as they would like to.
Agreed.
Last edited by RU Experienced? at Aug 11, 2010,
#31
Quote by valennic


Yeah, I'd think so. I saw in a documentary during the school year, these two guys were essentially corporate billboards, and just for being walking advertisements, they made ASTRONOMICAL amounts of money. I wouldn't mind being a bit of a corporate ***** if I got to live a bit more comfortably on tour.



If you get to 10-15 venues, with an average of maybe 5 000 people each night (say you play at festivals, play with a big headliner and have steady fans), I'd manage to sell every inch of space visible on stage.
Need fashion advice?

Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I wish I had a dick like a black guy instead of my little white dick.

Quote by JoelTheShredder
i love you more than words can express jean.


I saw Rick Astley in Quebec City, on April 10th 2009. Best day of my life!
#32
Quote by valennic


Yeah, I'd think so. I saw in a documentary during the school year, these two guys were essentially corporate billboards, and just for being walking advertisements, they made ASTRONOMICAL amounts of money. I wouldn't mind being a bit of a corporate ***** if I got to live a bit more comfortably on tour.


Yeah, people will pay a good amount to have their name put out to a good-sized group of people that they couldn't reach otherwise.
#33
DIY

After being in a band for 3 years we have made all our own merch: cds, t-shirts, buttons, stickers, patches. Booked out of town showns, done all our own promotion where necessary and gone on tour across the province - fitting all our gear and 8 people in a van and a u-haul trailer.

In the end we broke even. What more could anyone ask for? We've probably made $250 in merch sails charing $3 for cd, $7 for t-shirt, and 50 cents for everything else, and we rarely play shows where the cover is over $5.

We have played to a couple hundred people, and 3 people, in the same week. If you're a band going on tour, and you expect to make money....well, you're doing it wrong.
Last edited by technicolour at Aug 11, 2010,
#34
Quote by JeanMi36
If you get to 10-15 venues, with an average of maybe 5 000 people each night (say you play at festivals, play with a big headliner and have steady fans), I'd manage to sell every inch of space visible on stage.


Sure fire way to make loads of cash

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#35
All the people who are saying "oh they're being primadonnas bitching that they don't earn tons of money" grow the fuck up. These are adults trying to make a living through their music and touring, not some teenage punk band playing the local scene.
#36
The end made me feel guilty about buying CD's from HMV, and never from shows

I always buy a t-shirt though
#37
Quote by CoreysMonster
All the people who are saying "oh they're being primadonnas bitching that they don't earn tons of money" grow the fuck up. These are adults trying to make a living through their music and touring, not some teenage punk band playing the local scene.


They're not adults, they're like mid 20s. Also, if you want to make a LIVING touring and playing music without any other jobs on the side you shouldn't be playing "extreme" music. It's possible, but it's even more difficult.

Even Lord worm the old vocalist for Cryptopsy (one of the biggest names in death metal) has a degree in english - and now teaches it.
#38
Quote by CoreysMonster
All the people who are saying "oh they're being primadonnas bitching that they don't earn tons of money" grow the fuck up. These are adults trying to make a living through their music and touring, not some teenage punk band playing the local scene.


Maybe, but you can manage your notoriety and take advantage of it. T-Shirts aren't the only profit a band can have.

Hell, I think I'd sell the band name.


The Flying Pepsi

The Lucky Strike Zone!

The Blackberries (Lol)
Need fashion advice?

Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I wish I had a dick like a black guy instead of my little white dick.

Quote by JoelTheShredder
i love you more than words can express jean.


I saw Rick Astley in Quebec City, on April 10th 2009. Best day of my life!
#39
Everyone's a critic, but hey they really respect your talent.
Have your manager call my manager, and we'll make records together.
At this level of success in entertainment, there are certain connotations.
It's a "you give we take" relationship.
The kids just wouldn't understand it.
Come on now, how long do think this is really gonna last?
How long can you hold their attention before they move on to the next band?
On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?
On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?

Coordinate the marketing, label, publicity, touring.
Consult on, timing and presentation.
Go ahead put this in context.
It's 3 points on production, 15% to management,
10% to the agent, 5% to legal representation.
We call it our insurance plan to stretch the inevitable as far as we can.
Gotta make your money while you got the chance,
do whatever it takes to sell this.

On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?
On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?
(Let's go)
Just how desperate can we be?
Go buy our record and see.
Just how angry can we seem?
Go buy our record and see.
Just how ****ed up can it get?
Go buy our record and see.
Just how much can we bleed?
We're completely irrelevant on LP and compact disc.

On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?
On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?
On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?
On the inside.
On the inside.
On the inside.
Do you wanna know how it feels on the inside?


Was the same shit 30 years ago.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#40
Quote by technicolour
They're not adults, they're like mid 20s. Also, if you want to make a LIVING touring and playing music without any other jobs on the side you shouldn't be playing "extreme" music. It's possible, but it's even more difficult.

Even Lord worm the old vocalist for Cryptopsy (one of the biggest names in death metal) has a degree in english - and now teaches it.


Huh, no way? learn something new every day.