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#1
Hello folks.

Looking at the beautiful world today with all its beauty and whatnot, does it ever worry you that the US is still in a shambles after having spent X amount of dollars with hardly anything to show for it in the economy?

And as we all know, if the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches the cold.

Share your thoughts, Pit.
#2
Nothing has been done to counter the conditions that caused the 2008 crash from re-appearing so yes. It's starting to look very likely.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#3
the banks control ALL the money. the recession was the work of the bankers to hurt the rest of the world. the only way there will be another recession is if they want another recession.

Yes. this is really what i believe.
There is a war going on for your mind.

If you are thinking, you are winning.


Resistance is victory.


We are building up a new world.
Do not sit idly by.
#4
The possibility is high. Besides, we're not even out of a 'recession'. We're not ok, fine or anything good. There's still a lot of problems and people are going to get right back into the same damn problem.


STAY OUT OF DEBT PEOPLE

Quote by Fenderhippie69
the banks control ALL the money. the recession was the work of the bankers to hurt the rest of the world. the only way there will be another recession is if they want another recession.

Yes. this is really what i believe.
It's not only the banks fault but the idiots who were taking out mortgages when they KNEW they couldn't afford it. But, the banks were just as retarded and approved them, then the whole thing went into the shitter.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
Last edited by Metalology at Aug 14, 2010,
#5
Quote by Fenderhippie69
the banks control ALL the money. the recession was the work of the bankers to hurt the rest of the world. the only way there will be another recession is if they want another recession.

Yes. this is really what i believe.


You act like they have half a clue what they're doing most the time.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#6
Quote by leeb rocks
You act like they have half a clue what they're doing most the time.


Im certain of it. I don't think it was a mistake at all and was very much a formulated plan.
There is a war going on for your mind.

If you are thinking, you are winning.


Resistance is victory.


We are building up a new world.
Do not sit idly by.
#7
Quote by Fenderhippie69
Im certain of it. I don't think it was a mistake at all and was very much a formulated plan.


1. You give them way more credit than they deserve.
2. You're several very worrying kinds of crazy
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#8
Quote by Fenderhippie69
Im certain of it. I don't think it was a mistake at all and was very much a formulated plan.
It wasn't a formulated plan, it was a very obvious disaster in plain sight that nobody did anything about. It was based off greed, selling mortgages to people who couldn't pay for them with stocks invested in these mortgages to make a lot of money quickly. Then everything folded and we're left with what the economy is now.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
#9
According to Marx there will indefinitely be recessions and depressions until revolutionary class conciousness is finally achieved.

But serious, I doubt there will be a double dip recession, but invariably there will be in another ten years or so because our reliance on the financial sector is so great that we can't afford to limit it.
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#10
Quote by Metalogy
It's not only the banks fault but the idiots who were taking out mortgages when they KNEW they couldn't afford it. But, the banks were just as retarded and approved them, then the whole thing went into the shitter.
The banks are the ones who tricked people into doing that...
#11
Quote by Metalology
The possibility is high. Besides, we're not even out of a 'recession'. We're not ok, fine or anything good. There's still a lot of problems and people are going to get right back into the same damn problem.


STAY OUT OF DEBT PEOPLE

It's not only the banks fault but the idiots who were taking out mortgages when they KNEW they couldn't afford it. But, the banks were just as retarded and approved them, then the whole thing went into the shitter.

Both parties are culpable, really.
The lenders shouldn't have encouraged certain practices(exaggerating income, borrowing over the value of the property etc), but they couldn't do that unless people went along with it.
#12
Quote by leeb rocks
1. You give them way more credit than they deserve.
2. You're several very worrying kinds of crazy



You can call me crazy but its become apparent to me that this is unfortunately true.
There is a war going on for your mind.

If you are thinking, you are winning.


Resistance is victory.


We are building up a new world.
Do not sit idly by.
#13
Quote by frnzd
According to Marx there will indefinitely be recessions and depressions until revolutionary class conciousness is finally achieved.


It isn't just Marxists that see a cycle of crises as inevitable in a capitalist system. Hell by this point it's pretty asinine to argue that the current system (not necessarily all variations on capitalism) is prone to it.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#14
Quote by guitarhero_764
The banks are the ones who tricked people into doing that...
Yes, but to say that everyone else is innocent isn't correct either. Both are at fault:

a) People who bought things on credit when they knew they couldn't pay it off
b) The banks who approved of such actions

If people had said, "Oh wait, I'm too damn broke to buy this" and hadn't, we'd be in a much better situation. People are never happy with what they have which is why we have the mess we see right now.

Quote by MightyAl
Both parties are culpable, really.
The lenders shouldn't have encouraged certain practices(exaggerating income, borrowing over the value of the property etc), but they couldn't do that unless people went along with it.


I'm not saying that the banks aren't at fault, but to make it out like it's some big conspiracy to thwart us poor consumers is wrong.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
Last edited by Metalology at Aug 14, 2010,
#15
Quote by Fenderhippie69
You can call me crazy but its become apparent to me that this is unfortunately true.

Explain, please. I'm interested in what you think.
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#16
Quote by Metalology
Yes, but to say that everyone else is innocent isn't correct either. Both are at fault:

a) People who bought things on credit when they knew they couldn't pay it off
b) The banks who approved of such actions

If people had said, "Oh wait, I'm too damn broke to buy this" and hadn't, we'd be in a much better situation. People are never happy with what they have which is why we have the mess we see right now.



I'm not saying that the banks aren't at fault, but to make it out like it's some big conspiracy to thwart us poor consumers is wrong.

In short, everybody is stupid, so they do stupid things, and bad things happen.
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#17
Quote by Metalology
Yes, but to say that everyone else is innocent isn't correct either. Both are at fault:

a) People who bought things on credit when they knew they couldn't pay it off
b) The banks who approved of such actions

If people had said, "Oh wait, I'm too damn broke to buy this" and hadn't, we'd be in a much better situation. People are never happy with what they have which is why we have the mess we see right now.
The banks pretty much told them that they could pay it off though.

To say the banks aren't 90% at fault here(and the federal government for not regulating) is just silly. Quit blaming the consumers.
#18
Quote by guitarhero_764
The banks pretty much told them that they could pay it off though.

To say the banks aren't 90% at fault here(and the federal government for not regulating) is just silly. Quit blaming the consumers.

Yea, and if I told you "put this cape on, because it's red you can fly like superman and are invulnerable to everything except Kryptonite", would you really jump off the Empire State building?

EDIT: In short, quit trying to absolve people of responsibility for their actions.
#19
Quote by MightyAl
Yea, and if I told you "put this cape on, because it's red you can fly like superman and are invulnerable to everything except Kryptonite", would you really jump off the Empire State building?

EDIT: In short, quit trying to absolve people of responsibility for their actions.
The banks are much better liars than that. Your analogy fails.
#20
Quote by guitarhero_764
The banks pretty much told them that they could pay it off though.

To say the banks aren't 90% at fault here(and the federal government for not regulating) is just silly. Quit blaming the consumers.
Quit trying pass the buck for people making stupid financial decisions. Just because a bank says you can/should do something doesn't mean you should automatically jump right in. Besides, a bank doesn't drag you into their offices and force you to sign on a mortgage for a bigger/more expensive house. If people can't look at the cost of something and compare it with their finances then they need to go back to school.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
#21
Quote by MightyAl
Yea, and if I told you "put this cape on, because it's red you can fly like superman and are invulnerable to everything except Kryptonite", would you really jump off the Empire State building?

EDIT: In short, quit trying to absolve people of responsibility for their actions.


Depends if you were in a position off responsibility and are held in the public eye to be an expert on the subject you are talking about. Not that I entirely disagree with you but poor comparison.

Quote by Metalology
Quit trying pass the buck for people making stupid financial decisions. Just because a bank says you can/should do something doesn't mean you should automatically jump right in. Besides, a bank doesn't drag you into their offices and force you to sign on a mortgage for a bigger/more expensive house. If people can't look at the cost of something and compare it with their finances then they need to go back to school.


I can't provide you with the proof for Einstein's theory of relativity yet I still believe it to be true. Should I go back to school till I understand it or take the advice of what I see as respectable experts in the field? It's unrealistic to expect everyone to be well versed in economics.
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T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
Last edited by leeb rocks at Aug 14, 2010,
#22
Quote by Metalology
Quit trying pass the buck for people making stupid financial decisions. Just because a bank says you can/should do something doesn't mean you should automatically jump right in. Besides, a bank doesn't drag you into their offices and force you to sign on a mortgage for a bigger/more expensive house. If people can't look at the cost of something and compare it with their finances then they need to go back to school.
Do you know what predatory lending is?
#23
Quote by guitarhero_764
The banks are the ones who tricked people into doing that...

You cant really trick a moderately intelligent person into signing a mortgage that sucks down 70% of their monthly income without the person being partially at fault, too. If you sign the paper without even looking at what you will pay and thinking about if you will actually be able to pay it off reasonably, you are completely at fault.

People wanted more than they could afford, the banks played on that so that they could make ridiculous amounts of money. Its the way American capitalism works. The corporations make money off the idiots who are stupid enough to pay them. This time, everything just got too far out of hand before it was decided that it was a problem. If people start thinking about things again, and start acting responsible with their money, this shit wont happen again.

DoomdEdit:
Quote by guitarhero_764
The banks are much better liars than that. Your analogy fails.

You cant lie about the numbers that are obviously written on the contract you are signing. You can ignore them, and believe whatever the person who makes money off you signing it is saying, but thats stupidity, and you are at fault for that, not the person who is trying to screw you.
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Last edited by doomded at Aug 14, 2010,
#24
Quote by guitarhero_764
The banks are much better liars than that. Your analogy fails.

No, my analogy is spot on. People followed what they wanted to hear, rather than looking at the most important financial decision they would ever make with any kind of critical thought.
In my analogy, I tell you a lie, and I know it's a lie. In the analogy, you go along with it because flying and invulnerability are awesome, rather than because it's a credible claim.

In short, you failed to understand my very simple analogy.
Quote by leeb rocks
Depends if you were in a position off responsibility and are held in the public eye to be an expert on the subject you are talking about. Not that I entirely disagree with you but poor comparison.

/snip

Yes, but that's because people's impression of what banks were didn't change in line with the bank's perception of what they were. Loans and mortgages became product, and tellers became sales staff.
I know about this, because the ex-manager of my local bank quit, having become sick of trying to sell things to the people who used the bank.
Last edited by MightyAl at Aug 14, 2010,
#25
Quote by leeb rocks
It isn't just Marxists that see a cycle of crises as inevitable in a capitalist system. Hell by this point it's pretty asinine to argue that the current system (not necessarily all variations on capitalism) is prone to it.



I got in a rather heated argument with my Dad about this, but I have to agree that recessions appear somewhat inevitable. Perhaps one can argue that it's a sad necessity in the long run for the prosperity of capitalism, a system that otherwise brings long periods of development.
Quote by babakkatt
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#26
Quote by leeb rocks
I can't provide you with the proof for Einstein's theory of relativity yet I still believe it to be true. Should I go back to school till I understand it or take the advice of what I see as respectable experts in the field? It's unrealistic to expect everyone to be well versed in economics.
It's not unrealistic to look at your pay cheque and then look at how much something is going to cost. Why can't they look somewhere else for advice? The bank is trying to SELL you a mortgage, they're not there to hold your hand. The bank lends you money to make money, that's it. You don't have to be 'versed in economics' to figure out whether you can afford a mortgage or not.

Besides, I don't use Einstein's theory of relativity everyday but I do use money everyday.

Quote by guitarhero_764
Do you know what predatory lending is?
Don't partonize me. Yes, I know what predatory lending is. I never said that the banks weren't at fault but don't try and tell me that a big part of the problem is people wanting more than they can afford.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
#27
Quote by MightyAl
No, my analogy is spot on. People followed what they wanted to hear, rather than looking at the most important financial decision they would ever make with any kind of critical thought.
In my analogy, I tell you a lie, and I know it's a lie. In the analogy, you go along with it because flying and invulnerability are awesome, rather than because it's a credible claim.

In short, you failed to understand my very simple analogy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

This stuff is basically false advertising. You can't just expect consumers to see through it like you would some obvious lie about Superman. You don't blame people for falling for fraud scams, you blame the fraudsters.
#28
Quote by MightyAl


Yes, but that's because people's impression of what banks were didn't change in line with the bank's perception of what they were. Loans and mortgages became product, and tellers became sales staff.
I know about this, because the ex-manager of my local bank quit, having become sick of trying to sell things to the people who used the bank.


But then the issue isn't poor financial planning. It's a public wide misunderstanding of the banking system and the financial sector as a whole. There's nothing wrong with placing trust in a reliable figure of authority. Something Bank's spend a small fortune in advertising painting themselves as (they've recently gone with the 'hip and young/we're just like you' route here).
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#29
Quote by pandasxsharpies
Explain, please. I'm interested in what you think.



I'm fairly certain that the banks and businesses has seized control of the US government over the past 40 years through the electoral process. The banks and businesses are responsible for all the bullshit that Washington D.C. has created. I think that they are trying to form a 1984 type of new world order and the war on terrorism and the recession are both simply stepping stones to this brave new world.

I know it sounds crazy and hard to believe and I know I have no solid evidence to back my claims but this is what I believe.
There is a war going on for your mind.

If you are thinking, you are winning.


Resistance is victory.


We are building up a new world.
Do not sit idly by.
#30
Yup. As soon as our communist fascist socalist not-capitalist russian kenyan illegal immigrant homosexual gun-hating HitlerStalin black guy president runs us into the ground, he's gonna run and let Putin nuke us like crazy.


On a more serious note, maybe. If we're smart, I think we can avoid it, but I don't see that happening. I don't think it'll be as extreme though.
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#31
Quote by frnzd
I got in a rather heated argument with my Dad about this, but I have to agree that recessions appear somewhat inevitable. Perhaps one can argue that it's a sad necessity in the long run for the prosperity of capitalism, a system that otherwise brings long periods of development.

A recession is like a forest fire. Sure, there's damage, and a few squirrels get barbequed. But stuff grows back later, often more vigourously then before.
It's not a great comparison, true. But in it's essentials - some get burned, growth normally returns - it's not wholly bad.
Quote by guitarhero_764
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

This stuff is basically false advertising. You can't just expect consumers to see through it like you would some obvious lie about Superman. You don't blame people for falling for fraud scams, you blame the fraudsters.

Yes, you can. With a calculator, they can work out the repayments themselves, and then know that borrowing 5 times their annual income is a f*cking stupid idea.
Last edited by MightyAl at Aug 14, 2010,
#32
Quote by Metalology
Don't partonize me. Yes, I know what predatory lending is. I never said that the banks weren't at fault but don't try and tell me that a big part of the problem is people wanting more than they can afford.
Sorry I wasn't trying to patronize you, just wondering if we were talking about the same thing.

And the people thought that they could afford it because they didn't really have a reason to distrust the banks. Most people assume bankers know more about how financial stuff works than they do.
#33
Quote by Metalology
It's not unrealistic to look at your pay cheque and then look at how much something is going to cost. Why can't they look somewhere else for advice? The bank is trying to SELL you a mortgage, they're not there to hold your hand. The bank lends you money to make money, that's it. You don't have to be 'versed in economics' to figure out whether you can afford a mortgage or not.

Besides, I don't use Einstein's theory of relativity everyday but I do use money everyday.


Banks can be bloody convincing. They do a good job of portraying themselves as reliable and trustworthy institutions when the truth is quite the opposite. If someone is on the fence about a loan the bank will push and push it at them and offer all kind of loans and special deals to help them cope (remember the bank don't usually lose out if the mortgage is defaulted. They get the house). The issue remains people trusting the institution to advise them rather than their own poor financial planning.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#34
Quote by MightyAl
A recession is like a forest fire. Sure, there's damage, and a few squirrels get barbequed. But stuff grows back later, often more vigourously then before.
It's not a great comparison, true. But in it's essentials - some get burned, growth normally returns - it's not wholly bad.


I have a slight issue comparing burnt trees and squirrels with unemployed, homeless and (for the right wing support) often pushed to crime human beings.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#35
Quote by MightyAl
A recession is like a forest fire. Sure, there's damage, and a few squirrels get barbequed. But stuff grows back later, often more vigourously then before.
It's not a great comparison, true. But in it's essentials - some get burned, growth normally returns - it's not wholly bad.
Although a recession normally bounces back (it's basically and up and down deal bust/boom/bust/boom) I'm interested in seeing what happens with this one.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
#36
Quote by leeb rocks
I have a slight issue comparing burnt trees and squirrels with unemployed, homeless and (for the right wing support) often pushed to crime human beings.

That's because you're a filthy commie.
#37
Quote by leeb rocks
I have a slight issue comparing burnt trees and squirrels with unemployed, homeless and (for the right wing support) often pushed to crime human beings.
Sad to say, but he's right. We are just a bunch of 'squirrels' in a giant economic forest. Our society doesn't really care about individuals, it's about the whole. As a whole, it would bounce back but there will be some that will take a major hit in many aspects of life.
Quote by DieGarbageMan
can i get a tl;dr up in this bitch?

A mod makes a joke and hi-jacks a thread...

Quote by paintITblack39
usually, this is often discussed in the political threads ...

let's change the question: are you pro or antti niemi?
#38
Quote by Fenderhippie69
I'm fairly certain that the banks and businesses has seized control of the US government over the past 40 years through the electoral process. The banks and businesses are responsible for all the bullshit that Washington D.C. has created. I think that they are trying to form a 1984 type of new world order and the war on terrorism and the recession are both simply stepping stones to this brave new world.

I know it sounds crazy and hard to believe and I know I have no solid evidence to back my claims but this is what I believe.

What you're talking about is NWO/Federal Reserve Bank conspiracy theory, and it has some substantial evidence.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

-Woodrow Wilson after signing the Federal Reserve into existence.
#39
Quote by MightyAl
That's because you're a filthy commie.


You Can't prove it!
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
Last edited by leeb rocks at Aug 14, 2010,
#40
Quote by Fenderhippie69
I'm fairly certain that the banks and businesses has seized control of the US government over the past 40 years through the electoral process. The banks and businesses are responsible for all the bullshit that Washington D.C. has created. I think that they are trying to form a 1984 type of new world order and the war on terrorism and the recession are both simply stepping stones to this brave new world.

I know it sounds crazy and hard to believe and I know I have no solid evidence to back my claims but this is what I believe.


I'm Scottish, and I approve this message.
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