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#1
First off, I don't understand how guns/gun control even fits into a healthcare bill, but you know 2700 pages of BS and you can hide any kind of small, forceful language in it.

I just got a letter in the mail asking me and my family to sign a petition to repeal Obamacare because it has regulations on gun owners. This is what I've gathered so far, since I'm not going to dig through 2700 pages of BS, there is language in the bill to regulate guns by putting a tax on them through the "wellness program" mentioned in the bill under the opinion that guns are a health risk to the owner, so therefore your premiums go up.

Breakdown of gibberish, if you own a gun your gona get taxed to hell. How do they do this, well, just like with the Veterans when they had their 2nd amendment rights taken away(over 150,000 of em), they'll use our medical records(which will be turned over to the government by law) to determine if you could be a threat with a gun, mainly ADD or ADHD people are considered a threat if they own a gun, which, most Americans are ADD, sadly.

Bunch of links to argue both sides:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/11/is-health-care-bill-antigun.html
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/oct/20/gun-owners-america/gun-rights-group-says-health-care-bill-could-harm-/
http://volokh.com/2009/11/24/health-bill-and-gun-ownership/

What does UG think of this? Could we as Americans(sorry brits) loose our gun rights through this bill, or is it all a bunch of hokus pokus?
#5
The second link says it's false...
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#7
Yea, I hate guns.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#8
OBAMA IS RUINING THIS NATION!?!

Seriously though, it sounds like nonsense. Besides, I honestly think that it would be a good thing if they were to limit our gun rights a bit.
#9
Sounds like a load of fearmongering. Stupid, makes no sense, and there's no reason for it. I don't believe it.
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#10
Not gunna lie, read TS's post in a deep south accent.
Quote by ZanasCross
I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#11
I'm surprised your current system hasn't already counted gun ownership as a pre-existing condition leading to a higher chance of illness or injury.

Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#12
How ungrateful of you, TS, at least he's not taking yer jerb.
Quote by Pleasure2kill
The truth is, Muslims never apologized for their faith having something to do with the attacks on 9/11.
#13
Quote by necrosis1193
Sounds like a load of fearmongering. Stupid, makes no sense, and there's no reason for it. I don't believe it.



Frequently when I go, "that's exactly what I wanted to say" I see that Necrosis1193 has said it before me.
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#14
Finally, somebody needs to take your guns away.
Actually, better yet, keep them and get taxed, I feel like parts of the USA could need some cash.
#15
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Frequently when I go, "that's exactly what I wanted to say" I see that Necrosis1193 has said it before me.


Sigquoting if I have room.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 3-3
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 52-39
#17
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
Finally, somebody needs to take your guns away.
Actually, better yet, keep them and get taxed, I feel like parts of the USA could need some cash.



Why should our guns be taken away? What's wrong with me going out on Saturday with my Father and his colleague with a couple of single shot target and western style rifles and shooting some steel plates and paper targets? We're not causing any one or thing harm. Hell, we recycle as much of the lead as we can not to mention all of the brass casings get reused.
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

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#19
Oh, another post complaining about our president? Goddamn, people, stop freaking out. Just because you're Republican and he's not doesn't mean he's going to take away all your rights. I highly doubt that a gun tax is included in the health care reform, it's probably just some people wanting to block it and using false information to lure out more supporters. And if there is a tax, hell, why complain? "wahhhh, I can only own nine guns, not ten because then I pay too much taxes." -_-




Quote by Greendayfan16

cool story bra.................somebody doesn't like Christianity, who woulda thought?

Quote by NickGiovanni
Lol, This is Sig worthy my friend, Kudos to you and your wise-ass-ness
#21
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Why should our guns be taken away? What's wrong with me going out on Saturday with my Father and his colleague with a couple of single shot target and western style rifles and shooting some steel plates and paper targets? We're not causing any one or thing harm. Hell, we recycle as much of the lead as we can not to mention all of the brass casings get reused.

Point taken. This is where guns are purely recreational. I don't really know what to do in this situation just because of how many stupid people there are with guns
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#22
I swear I wanna smack some sense into everyone on this Obamacare shit. Besides that, why do you need guns? No reason any citizen should have guns in there homes but if you truly insist on having them, I have no problem with the government taxing you. Think of it as a Monopoly "luxury tax"
#24
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Why should our guns be taken away? What's wrong with me going out on Saturday with my Father and his colleague with a couple of single shot target and western style rifles and shooting some steel plates and paper targets? We're not causing any one or thing harm. Hell, we recycle as much of the lead as we can not to mention all of the brass casings get reused.

What's wrong with shooting ranges?
#25
Quote by flame843
my favorite part about gun rights supporters is that they insinuate that having guns will help them form militias in the event that the government becomes oppressive.

newsflash: america has the largest, most well-equipped army on the planet. if the government comes for you, your guns will be useless.




Seriously, this is a big part of why I hate the "Guns keep us free" argument; Get as many gun owners as you want, your militia is going to get mowed down by trained soldiers with submachine guns, tanks, helicopters, jeeps, SUV's, rockets, explosives, and god knows what else before you get within a day's walk of the white houser. It was originally made so we could have a militia anywhere on a minute's notice back when Canada, a big British colony, was right on top of us, literally, not so you can overthrow the government if they annoy you.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 3-3
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 52-39
Last edited by necrosis1193 at Aug 14, 2010,
#26
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Why should our guns be taken away? What's wrong with me going out on Saturday with my Father and his colleague with a couple of single shot target and western style rifles and shooting some steel plates and paper targets? We're not causing any one or thing harm. Hell, we recycle as much of the lead as we can not to mention all of the brass casings get reused.

nothing's particularly wrong with that.

I think it's mainly the death and pain that they are frequently used to inflict.

or maybe people just don't like innocent steel plates being kidnapped from their steel ingot brethren and sold off into some kind of weird steel trafficking industry.

how can you sleep at night, you monster!
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#27
*enter thread*
*read OP*
*read sig*
*look at location of OP*
*leave thread*

No, but seriously, just reread the 2nd link. It pretty much proves it's just more fearmongering.

Also, in your sig, i imagine it'd make more sense if the "response time" of the magnum was actually measured in time, and not in distance per second (speed).
#28
Listen dude, In Texas, where I live, I dont have to register any of the guns I own.

If that didnt cut thru your bs, then try this, dont report the guns you own if such a thing were to take place. And honestly why wouldnt owning a gun raise your insurance premiums if you informed the insurer that you regularly put yourself around or in harms way?
#29
I didn't click the links and wont comment on this healthcare bill, but..

I believe that taking legal gun rights away from citizens, regardless of where you live, will have no positive effect. Nearly everyone that would commit a crime with the aid of a gun or attempt to kill someone using a gun wont have obtained said gun through a legal manner.
the minimalist σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
Last edited by forstringwonder at Aug 14, 2010,
#30
Quote by Lemoninfluence
nothing's particularly wrong with that.

I think it's mainly the death and pain that they are frequently used to inflict.

or maybe people just don't like innocent steel plates being kidnapped from their steel ingot brethren and sold off into some kind of weird steel trafficking industry.

how can you sleep at night, you monster!



But why take it away from ME because some immature assholes abused it? Or because a serial killer used a gun to do his work? I'll admit, guns are quite dangerous but even if someone came and murdered my whole family at gun point, I wouldn't go apeshit against GUNS. Sure, I'd be a wreck and hate the bastard for the rest of my life and probably try to kill him, but guns would not be my target.

And really, make them illegal, tax them, etc. See if that stops criminals from getting them.

It is hard to sleep after a day of shooting plates though!


Quote by boreamor
What's wrong with shooting ranges?


Nothing? I go to a beautiful one and drop donations every few months to keep it maintained.
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#32
Quote by Craigo
Why the deuce would there be weapon tax in a health care bill? This is probably made up.


A better question is how could they tax you if you are not required to report the guns you own.
#33
Quote by flame843
my favorite part about gun rights supporters is that they insinuate that having guns will help them form militias in the event that the government becomes oppressive.

newsflash: america has the largest, most well-equipped army on the planet. if the government comes for you, your guns will be useless.

Except that a large percentage of soldiers have families, and are in the military to support their families.

Nobody's going to kill American citizens for an oppressive government.

Quote by necrosis1193
Seriously, this is a big part of why I hate the "Guns keep us free" argument; Get as many gun owners as you want, your militia is going to get mowed down by trained soldiers with submachine guns, tanks, helicopters, jeeps, SUV's, rockets, explosives, and god knows what else before you get within a day's walk of the white houser. It was originally made so we could have a militia anywhere on a minute's notice back when Canada, a big British colony, was right on top of us, literally, not so you can overthrow the government if they annoy you.

The war in Afghanistan is proof enough that if you are organized enough, you can do quite well against a well trained military force.
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Last edited by Gyroscope : Tomorrow at 01:00 PM.
#34
Quote by Gyroscope
Except that a large percentage of soldiers have families, and are in the military to support their families.

Nobody's going to kill American citizens for an oppressive government.


The war in Afghanistan is proof enough that if you are organized enough, you can do quite well against a neutered military force.


fixed.
the minimalist σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
#35
Quote by Artemis Entreri
But why take it away from ME because some immature assholes abused it? Or because a serial killer used a gun to do his work? I'll admit, guns are quite dangerous but even if someone came and murdered my whole family at gun point, I wouldn't go apeshit against GUNS. Sure, I'd be a wreck and hate the bastard for the rest of my life and probably try to kill him, but guns would not be my target.

And really, make them illegal, tax them, etc. See if that stops criminals from getting them.


we did that. It didn't stop them getting them, but it did stop most of them using them for common things like robbery. And you'll find it difficult to find someone carrying one on their person.

most gun crime now is gang related i.e. one gang member shooting another. The incidents involving 'innocent' people are few and far between. In fact the last 2 major instances of Gun crime in the UK were by people who had the guns legally.

We have handguns completely banned over here and there's a strict process to go through in order to get rifles. Shotguns are apparently quite easy to get due to them being useful to farmers etc ( ) There are ranges for people who wish to do target practice and most of those offer the ability to rent a weapon to use at the range.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#36
But why take it away from ME because some immature assholes abused it? Or because a serial killer used a gun to do his work? I'll admit, guns are quite dangerous but even if someone came and murdered my whole family at gun point, I wouldn't go apeshit against GUNS. Sure, I'd be a wreck and hate the bastard for the rest of my life and probably try to kill him, but guns would not be my target.

And really, make them illegal, tax them, etc. See if that stops criminals from getting them.

This kinda seems like the law they passed a few moths ago in Arizona. Certain rights are taken away from a certain group of people, the long term result is for best really, then that group complains. Only difference is one is a Left Wing complaint against rights while the other is a Right Wing complaint against rights.

Since the argument is taking place on UG, the argument and thread is taken over by Lefties not caring about peoples rights that are obviously still in the Constitution, while in another article (the Arizona border patrol / human rights law) is being compared to the Nazi's in WWII

UG can be so predictable sometimes
#37
1) Most Americans do not have ADD
2) Nope, you can't jut hide anything in it. That many pages might seem like a lot to you, but, shocker, there are a bunch of Journalists with nothing better to do than read through them.
3) Politifact, which you linked to, says that this is false, you're getting worked up over nothing.


If Obama were actually trying to violate the second amendment then that would be very worrying, but he is not; I suggest you find some real stuff to get pissed about.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
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#38
Jesus... Obama preaches acceptance and freedom for those muslim pricks, and turns around and decides to F the second amendment right in the ass...
#39
Quote by Lemoninfluence
we did that. It didn't stop them getting them, but it did stop most of them using them for common things like robbery.

most gun crime now is gang related i.e. one gang member shooting another. The incidents involving 'innocent' people are few and far between. In fact the last 2 major instances of Gun crime in the UK were by people who had the guns legally.

We have handguns completely banned over here and there's a strict process to go through in order to get rifles. Shotguns are apparently quite easy to get due to them being useful to farmers etc ( ) There are ranges for people who wish to do target practice and most of those offer the ability to rent a weapon to use at the range.


We had a shooting actually, two days ago. But other than that, all of the gun crime where I am from is gang-related as well. At least as far back as I can remember.

Rent a weapon to use. Hah. Would you like to rent a guitar to use? I'm not comparing the dangerous aspect but the fact that each gun I own has special significance. My father and I share three custom handmade target rifles, 3000-5000 a piece. It's quite an experience to shoot them, nothing compares. Sure, I could go out and pop off some rounds from a cheap wal-mart .22 rifle but that's hardly satisfying. It's a whole other world to shoot a handmade target rifle.

We come from different cultures I guess. It's a past time for my family to go out to the range on the weekend and relax with our guns. There's nothing violent about it.
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#40
Quote by Epicbizzjizz
Jesus... Obama preaches acceptance and freedom for those muslim pricks, and turns around and decides to F the second amendment right in the ass...


feel good after reading the thread?

nice.

also, it wouldn't stop you from having guns would it? it would just be an extra tax on them, right?

explain to me how that violates anybodies 2nd Amendment rights.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.