#1
Short-and-sweet: Planning to take a course from Berklee over the internet this semester. Tuition is about $1,200 though, so I can't afford more than one. I was looking into three, and I wanted to hear what some people thought would be the way to go.

1. Guitar chord 101 ~ My understanding is this teaches most things chordal, save for inversions and chordal melodies.
2. Guitar scales 101 ~ You can never know too many ways to play something, and my scalar knowledge is fairly limited to about three or four scales, excluding variations on pentatonics.
3. Pop/rock singing ~ Even if I don't know a lot of them, I can still get by on my current knowledge, and even then I have my guitar teacher, an 80's jazz/country session musician(Jazz players are good. 80's players are good. Session musicians are good. 80's Jazz session musicians are scary) to help me out with that stuff. On the other hand every singing instructor around here is more classically-oriented.

Due to the listed reasoning, I was leaning to the third, but again, I wanted some opinions. So, thoughts?
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#2
save your money! jeez!

go to a local music school and learn there - like musicianship - it will cost HALF as much, only people wont jizz when you tell them where you studied
Quote by BlitzkriegAir
1. Get drunk
2. play pentatonic scales fast
3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
4. Get killed onstage
5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


Quote by Holy Katana

How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
#3
I'm taking the master in songwriting & guitar, and I had to take the Chords 101.... it's very, very good. Rick Peckham, the guy who wrote the course and my instructor at the time, is very good. They go through virtually everything... although they have their own kinda way of voicing chords, etc... very much in the style of Hendrix & John Mayer. But yeah, I found it quite useful.... for scales and such, I'd recommend sitting with a good book on the CAGED System and a theory book alongside.

Berklee courses contain awesome information, no doubt. The instructors are very prompt and thorough when critiquing your work (they do it in text, and audio) And there's always the chat times, when you can talk to your instructor and other "class mates" All in all, it's worth it... The reason I'm doing it however, is I had to differ from my BMus @ Napier in Edinburgh due to a back problem from bad posture... so I was kinda bed-ridden for a couple of months.
Anyways, check it out.
#4
Quote by disuse
I'm taking the master in songwriting & guitar, and I had to take the Chords 101.... it's very, very good. Rick Peckham, the guy who wrote the course and my instructor at the time, is very good. They go through virtually everything... although they have their own kinda way of voicing chords, etc... very much in the style of Hendrix & John Mayer. But yeah, I found it quite useful.... for scales and such, I'd recommend sitting with a good book on the CAGED System and a theory book alongside.

Berklee courses contain awesome information, no doubt. The instructors are very prompt and thorough when critiquing your work (they do it in text, and audio) And there's always the chat times, when you can talk to your instructor and other "class mates" All in all, it's worth it... The reason I'm doing it however, is I had to differ from my BMus @ Napier in Edinburgh due to a back problem from bad posture... so I was kinda bed-ridden for a couple of months.
Anyways, check it out.



What do chords 101 really go into? Really there's not a lot that I can imagine that would be worth $1,000.00, when it comes to chords.

Sean
#6
Yeah man, just learn it from the internet/books. It's really stupid of u to pay $1200 just to learn chords/scales when u can do it for free on the internet. Use the $1200 to buy a new guitar so it will keep u motivated to keep learning.
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#7
Why would you 5000 pounds to go to ICMP?
Why would you pay xxxx amount to actually go to Berklee or MI?
Because they're worth the money.... you get instructors that EXPLAIN everything to you, show you how to use it, give you examples, etc.... a lot more than some internet article that gives a half the information/application actually required to understand such things.
How do you look for something your not sure your supposed to know?

Paying for the course = time saved searching through useless articles to find something decent, an instructor to aid you at all times, coursework to solidify the material, classmates to collaborate with

Finding it on the net = time spent searching for the topic, searching for help on the topic, searching for ways to apply the topic, etc....

Speaks for itself, really.... but if you think you can learn it all on your own, save your money for something that's more worthwhile than education.

*P.S - I understand the tone of the message seems rude, but don't take it as such...
#8
To everyone saying to just look it up on the internet and do it myself, I'll be frank guys. As said, I've been studying with a former session musician for years. I learn more in a month with him than I did one year where I tried doing it alone. Nothing makes you learn faster and better than a good teacher, which is something a jpeg of some scales doesn't offer.
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#9
Go for what you're leaning toward. If it's #3 great, if you get what you want out of it, it'll be worth however much money it is. Personally i'd go for Chords or Scales, but thats me. If you will get the most out of it, go for it. Sometimes it'll cost alot for the knowledge you're really seeking anyways.
#10
id say instead you should find the best private teacher you can in your area (which if you live in or near a major metropolitan area) and take lessons from them. A top rate private teacher (if your interested in the kind of stuff you'll learn in a Berklee course maybe check out a professor at a local college's jazz program) runs 60-100 dollars per lesson and will be much better then an online course. If you live in the middle of nowhere and do not have access to good instruction maybe you should consider an online course, but I'd say the best local teacher you could find would, many times, be better then an online Berklee course.
That being said, going to a school (like berklee, or even a university) will make you better faster then just lessons, but all of these options vary in cost, time you must put in and level of interest in the guitar. but definatly consider a top private teacher (ESPECIALLY if you don't already take private lessons) before an expensive online course.
#11
lmao. an online course? get a professional private teacher. why would you spend $1200 for a semester of learning about chords or scales?
#DTWD
#12
I would say it's not worth that much money for an intro course. For a tenth of that, you can buy a textbook on music theory and composition and learn all the fundamentals. Save the dough for more advanced courses with real meat on the subject.
#14
Quote by 12345abcd3
I wouldn't pay $1200 for an internet course. Why not use the money to get a good teacher?


Isn't the point to gain a formal qualification from a top music University?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#15
As I see it theres only so much you can learn, and I'm not sure that Berklee's Chords 101 teaches everyone of these.

Triads, How to play Name and Identify any of them

Keys, Modulation, Transpostion, Borrowed Chords

Extended chords, How To play, name and Identify any of them

Partial chords, rootless voicings, drop 2 voicings, Inversions, essential and non essential tones, quartals.

Thats about all I can think of.

What else can they do/teach in Chords 101?
#16
Quote by AlanHB
Isn't the point to gain a formal qualification from a top music University?


three hours of credit isn't going to be the same as formal qualification. IMO. i'd rather take from a guy who got a BM at university of louisville than someone who completed a three hour credit at berklee.
#DTWD
#17
Quote by primusfan
three hours of credit isn't going to be the same as formal qualification. IMO. i'd rather take from a guy who got a BM at university of louisville than someone who completed a three hour credit at berklee.


Of course, but I was considering it a stepping stone towards undertaking formal qualifications. Assumedly if you finished the Berklee online courses, you would be eligible to at least apply for university level courses.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
Quote by AlanHB
Of course, but I was considering it a stepping stone towards undertaking formal qualifications. Assumedly if you finished the Berklee online courses, you would be eligible to at least apply for university level courses.

I haven't done any of that, am I AM taking university level courses.
#19
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I haven't done any of that, am I AM taking university level courses.


Well grats?

I'm just trying to explain why someone would pay that much for such a course.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#20
Quote by AlanHB
Well grats?

I'm just trying to explain why someone would pay that much for such a course.

I, personally, wouldn't pay for an online course. At least not THAT amount. You still don't get that teacher/student interaction that Berklee has. I know I wouldn't have the discipline to do it, either.

If I'm not mistaken the online courses don't have anything to do with taking an actual class at Berklee, I could be mistaken though...
#21
I'm comparing it to my Masters courses. Some are completely online, and they're setting me back around $4,000 - $8,000 each. I'm sure your University Courses have a similar price tag attached to them. The obvious gain from the university courses is that they count towards a qualification, I'd assume these online ones would too.

Here we go;

http://www.berkleemusic.com/school/certificates/guitar

The courses mentioned are foundation courses for certificates. You also get access to all the perks that Berklee students get (ie. networking, access to gigs and such).
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#23
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Oh, I see. I'm still not swayed Online courses aren't for me. I lack the discipline for that endeavor.


Yeah tell me about it. The way I get around it is by going to uni anyway, despite the fact I have no classes. Camp out in the library till 5, then go home. I never study at home, that's my guitar and PS3 time.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#24
Looking at the chord syllabus, I'm convinced it teaches a lot, but I have questions about it being worth it. Drop 2 chord voicings and Inversions seem to be the meat of the course beyond the basics....basically right out of the Joe Pass Handbook, but what would be cool is if they explored some George Van Epps concepts, I couldn't tell if they do that. For me the kicker would be how in detail they go into application and theory on using all these chords...beyond the Diatonic level. A plus for them is they appear to use the same approach we do with homework, and that is recorded playing assignments, for application and feedback. I can tell you first hand an approach like that works very well for distance education.

Sean
#25
Huh...they need separate classes for chords 101 and scales 101? Most universities I know of combine these into one course called Music Theory . Plus you learn tons of other stuff besides chords and scales in that class. Oh well, just one more piece of evidence that berklee is a joke.

TS, if I were you, I would invest the money in a good private teacher; even one at the university level. You would learn way more, and save a lot of money compared to taking an online course on one narrow topic
#26
Quote by tubatom868686
Huh...they need separate classes for chords 101 and scales 101? Most universities I know of combine these into one course called Music Theory


Really? Why not just have that one course for the entire degree then?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#27
Quote by tubatom868686
Huh...they need separate classes for chords 101 and scales 101? Most universities I know of combine these into one course called Music Theory . Plus you learn tons of other stuff besides chords and scales in that class. Oh well, just one more piece of evidence that berklee is a joke.

TS, if I were you, I would invest the money in a good private teacher; even one at the university level. You would learn way more, and save a lot of money compared to taking an online course on one narrow topic


Berklee's a joke? That's a first for me. So tell me what universities did you go to?

Sean
#28
Quote by tubatom868686
Huh...they need separate classes for chords 101 and scales 101? Most universities I know of combine these into one course called Music Theory . Plus you learn tons of other stuff besides chords and scales in that class. Oh well, just one more piece of evidence that berklee is a joke.

TS, if I were you, I would invest the money in a good private teacher; even one at the university level. You would learn way more, and save a lot of money compared to taking an online course on one narrow topic

I would imagine that they did that for a reason... not just to split "major/minor scale" and "Major/minor chords". You can get really in depth in both of these studies, more in depth than necessary.
#29
Quote by Sean0913
Berklee's a joke? That's a first for me. So tell me what universities did you go to?

Sean


Not in uni yet, but Ive studied with teachers from cal arts, NIU, roosevelt, Depaul, and Lawrence. Ive also taken a couple theory classes at Depaul.

Btw, its pretty much common knowledge that the guitar school for berklee is a joke...
#30
Btw, its pretty much common knowledge that the guitar school for berklee is a joke...


having spent a lot of time applying to colleges (including berklee, though i chose not to go there due to the terrible size/tuition ratio---its very expensive and very impersonal), but berklee's guitar curriculum is one of the best out there, and it has influenced the curriculum at tons of universities (specifically, i remember when i looked at Temple Universitie's Boyer school of music, they said alot of their jazz theory courses were based on concepts developed/taught at berklee). the berklee guitar department has also turned out guitar players like Steve Vai, John Scofield, Julian lange, bill frisel, john abercrombie, john mayer and many others. its not by any means a top school, and its not very hard to get into (if you can play but its also far from a joke. I think the chords and scales classes you mentioned are for development of instrumental technique and fretboard knowledge, they have a standard (non classical) theory curriculum.
I also think the study of classical theory (for a jazz/contemporary musician, particularly chorale writing and species counterpoint) is infinatly more of a joke then teaching a guitar player things that will help them as a player. the idea that teaching something applicable somehow makes a music program worse or less prestigious is rediculous and seemingly used to justify inferior teaching by superior teachers at better programs then ones like Berklee or MI.
#31
Quote by tehREALcaptain

I also think the study of classical theory (for a jazz/contemporary musician, particularly chorale writing and species counterpoint) .


Have fun thrashing out root position barre chords with no consideration for how good they will sound

If you don't want to learn concepts related to classical music then don't take the classical course, all universities i've looked at do both classical and popular.

Even if i had the money and lived in the Us i would not go to berklee, $55,000 for one year of a course? One of the highest ranked conservatorys in the UK goes no higher than £4,000, £8,000 for a masters.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Aug 17, 2010,
#32
Quote by tehREALcaptain
having spent a lot of time applying to colleges (including berklee, though i chose not to go there due to the terrible size/tuition ratio---its very expensive and very impersonal), but berklee's guitar curriculum is one of the best out there, and it has influenced the curriculum at tons of universities (specifically, i remember when i looked at Temple Universitie's Boyer school of music, they said alot of their jazz theory courses were based on concepts developed/taught at berklee). the berklee guitar department has also turned out guitar players like Steve Vai, John Scofield, Julian lange, bill frisel, john abercrombie, john mayer and many others. its not by any means a top school, and its not very hard to get into (if you can play but its also far from a joke. I think the chords and scales classes you mentioned are for development of instrumental technique and fretboard knowledge, they have a standard (non classical) theory curriculum.
I also think the study of classical theory (for a jazz/contemporary musician, particularly chorale writing and species counterpoint) is infinatly more of a joke then teaching a guitar player things that will help them as a player. the idea that teaching something applicable somehow makes a music program worse or less prestigious is rediculous and seemingly used to justify inferior teaching by superior teachers at better programs then ones like Berklee or MI.


There is no such thing as jazz theory or classical theory or rock theory. There is one subject called music theory that is all encompassing.
#33
For $1,200 you could take lessons for a couple months from someone who graduated from Berkelee and get way more for your money.
#34
Quote by tubatom868686
Not in uni yet, but Ive studied with teachers from cal arts, NIU, roosevelt, Depaul, and Lawrence. Ive also taken a couple theory classes at Depaul.

Btw, its pretty much common knowledge that the guitar school for berklee is a joke...


Where is this "common knowledge" that you speak of? Can you cite any trusted reviews, sources? I'd think it's everywhere, is it's so consistent that it's reached the point of mainstream connotation.

As far as studied with, I think it's wonderful that you've studied with people, but I fail to understand how that relates to Berklee, for or against. I have an Academy graduate that's there on a partial scholarship and another couple that were not from here that presently attend. I just don't see how the mountain of their work and expertise can be called "a joke".

Best,

Sean
#35
I would argue that at Berklee (or any high level University course for that matter), the networking that you do during the length of the course is just as, if not more important than the qualification that you receive at the end. It's no secret that if you have friends in the industry you're more likely to score a job at the end.

In terms of "Berklee is a joke", well it's highly doubtful, especially stating no reason why :P
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#36
Quote by Sean0913
Where is this "common knowledge" that you speak of? Can you cite any trusted reviews, sources? I'd think it's everywhere, is it's so consistent that it's reached the point of mainstream connotation.

As far as studied with, I think it's wonderful that you've studied with people, but I fail to understand how that relates to Berklee, for or against. I have an Academy graduate that's there on a partial scholarship and another couple that were not from here that presently attend. I just don't see how the mountain of their work and expertise can be called "a joke".

Best,

Sean


Because the typical musician they churn out is not definitely not anything special. Considering the price, EVERY guitarist that graduates should leave with an amazing amount of ability, which, IME and many others that I know is just not true. Btw, you asked me what uni I studied at, so thats how it relates to this thread

To name one of the biggest reasons that berklee is viewed as a joke is that all their good teachers are adjunct. This means that they might actually be at the school as little as once or twice a month. They try to lure in young guitarists with promises of learning with steve vai and likes. In reality, most students would be lucky to see any of those teachers on the campus more than a few times in 4 years

Look, my posts on the internet arent stopping you from going to berklee. Go ahead. Be my guest. Im just sayin, outside the world of other guitarists, there is VERY little respect for berklee graduates. Most people I know think of it just as a school that rich kids who think they wanna be rockstars go to. But like I said, if your heart is set on berklee, no one is stopping you
Last edited by tubatom868686 at Aug 18, 2010,
#37
Quote by tubatom868686
Because the typical musician they churn out is not definitely not anything special. Considering the price, EVERY guitarist that graduates should leave with an amazing amount of ability, which, IME and many others that I know is just not true. Btw, you asked me what uni I studied at, so thats how it relates to this thread

To name one of the biggest reasons that berklee is viewed as a joke is that all their good teachers are adjunct. This means that they might actually be at the school as little as once or twice a month. They try to lure in young guitarists with promises of learning with steve vai and likes. In reality, most students would be lucky to see any of those teachers on the campus more than a few times in 4 years

Look, my posts on the internet arent stopping you from going to berklee. Go ahead. Be my guest. Im just sayin, outside the world of other guitarists, there is VERY little respect for berklee graduates. Most people I know think of it just as a school that rich kids who think they wanna be rockstars go to. But like I said, if your heart is set on berklee, no one is stopping you


+1. i hear the same thing.
#DTWD
Last edited by primusfan at Aug 18, 2010,
#38
What makes a musician "special"? That seems like a very subjective term without any real ability to quantify it.

Ability is always on the part of the musician. If Chet Atkins himself were to have taught me finger style guitar and I didn't practice and put in the hours, I'd suck. I wouldn't be able to play, and that's not the fault of the teacher, its solely the job of the student. It doesn't mean that the teacher or his content was a joke.

Hopefully at a school they encourage a positive culture to practice and discipline one's self to be able to play well. I'm not even sure what "amazing abilities" means. What are they supposed to be able to do? Tap out Moonlight Sonata using only their toes while on a roller coaster? That would be amazing.

This needs to be quantified, and I'm not so sure you can do it.

I think the average person that goes there, understands that Celebrity teachers are adjunct. I'm not even sure Id want to learn from Steve Vai. Just because he can play doesnt mean hes a good or effective teacher. The teachers there are probably perfectly skilled.

I get the rich kid connotation and see why it would have that stigma, but like everything else, you cant simply buy ability, you have to woodshed it and earn it, it doesn't matter if its with me or Berklee. The onus on learning is on the student, and their work ethic.

I don't need or want to go to Berklee. I already have a lot of what I need and for what I dont know, I have the core tools and knowledge to hang in there and learn and understand it. Now if I want to use it, I have to do the work it takes to do so.

Best,

Sean


Quote by tubatom868686
Because the typical musician they churn out is not definitely not anything special. Considering the price, EVERY guitarist that graduates should leave with an amazing amount of ability, which, IME and many others that I know is just not true. Btw, you asked me what uni I studied at, so thats how it relates to this thread

To name one of the biggest reasons that berklee is viewed as a joke is that all their good teachers are adjunct. This means that they might actually be at the school as little as once or twice a month. They try to lure in young guitarists with promises of learning with steve vai and likes. In reality, most students would be lucky to see any of those teachers on the campus more than a few times in 4 years

Look, my posts on the internet arent stopping you from going to berklee. Go ahead. Be my guest. Im just sayin, outside the world of other guitarists, there is VERY little respect for berklee graduates. Most people I know think of it just as a school that rich kids who think they wanna be rockstars go to. But like I said, if your heart is set on berklee, no one is stopping you
Last edited by Sean0913 at Aug 18, 2010,
#39
Quote by Sean0913
What makes a musician "special"? That seems like a very subjective term without any real ability to quantify it.

Ability is always on the part of the musician. If Chet Atkins himself were to have taught me finger style guitar and I didn't practice and put in the hours, I'd suck. I wouldn't be able to play, and that's not the fault of the teacher, its solely the job of the student. It doesn't mean that the teacher or his content was a joke.

Hopefully at a school they encourage a positive culture to practice and discipline one's self to be able to play well. I'm not even sure what "amazing abilities" means. What are they supposed to be able to do? Tap out Moonlight Sonata using only their toes while on a roller coaster? That would be amazing.

This needs to be quantified, and I'm not so sure you can do it.

I think the average person that goes there, understands that Celebrity teachers are adjunct. I'm not even sure Id want to learn from Steve Vai. Just because he can play doesnt mean hes a good or effective teacher. The teachers there are probably perfectly skilled.

I get the rich kid connotation and see why it would have that stigma, but like everything else, you cant simply buy ability, you have to woodshed it and earn it, it doesn't matter if its with me or Berklee. The onus on learning is on the student, and their work ethic.

I don't need or want to go to Berklee. I already have a lot of what I need and for what I dont know, I have the core tools and knowledge to hang in there and learn and understand it. Now if I want to use it, I have to do the work it takes to do so.

Best,

Sean


Okay, so go to berklee