#1
I have a chord progression: F#m7, Dmaj7, G#dim, C#7.

(edit: in F# minor with a major V)

Would I be correct in saying I could I extend it further by changing them all to ninths?

I saw that I could also change the F#m7 to an F#m6 and the G# dim sounds okay when substituted for a C#m7.

Point is, are there any general guidelines or things to look for/consider when looking to further extend chords or substitute them within a progression while retaining function and feel? Guidelines, or just how to do it (like what to look for between the chords before choosing one of the possible options for substitution/extension)

I'm not well versed in this subject yet so looking for anything helpful.

Sorry if I'm not being clear
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Who's going to stop you? The music police?
Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Aug 15, 2010,
#2
Understanding voiceleading would be useful.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#3
Quote by Eastwinn
Understanding voiceleading would be useful.

I've learned how to write four-part harmony with smooth voice leading if that helps.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Who's going to stop you? The music police?
Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Aug 15, 2010,
#4
Experiment till you find something that sounds good, then figure out why it works
#5
Make sure the extension fits in the key if that's what you're aiming for. If you want to write something more exotic then anything goes.
#6
I couldnt say what key this was in, or wheter you just use a lot of extra chordtones.

The safest bet is to look if the extensions are in the key / scale of the piece, but that doesnt necessarily mean you cant add notes that are out of scale.

In the case of for example extending to 9ths, it seems the first two chords can safely extend to a 9th as those notes are also contained in the other chords of the piece, so it's a good bet they're tonal and would work.
The third (diminished) chord, I couldnt say. I dont even know if people add ninths to dimminished chords or if they use a minor 2nd instead of a major 2nd.. A major 9th (2nd) for a G# would be a bB.. well, it doesnt really matter for what you were asking, right?

Anyway, someone mentioned voiceleading. This is the key to understanding.. from that perspective, the whole point of extending chords is to have a kind of (multiple) melodic movements that harmonise well with the chords you are playing. Kinda like a simplified lead integrated to the triads.
Going from that, you can write a melody using the (possible) extra chord tones and then use those notes to extend the chords.

Or you can just play around and see what works, adding extra notes when you feel the chord neets to be a bit 'fuller' or 'bigger' sounding. I always hate getting 'just do what sounds good or whatever' answers, but in this case that might still be the easiest way to go about it.
#7
Quote by ShadesOfGray

Anyway, someone mentioned voiceleading. This is the key to understanding.. from that perspective, the whole point of extending chords is to have a kind of (multiple) melodic movements that harmonize well with the chords you are playing. Kinda like a simplified lead integrated to the triads.
Going from that, you can write a melody using the (possible) extra chord tones and then use those notes to extend the chords.

Or you can just play around and see what works, adding extra notes when you feel the chord needs to be a bit 'fuller' or 'bigger' sounding. I always hate getting 'just do what sounds good or whatever' answers, but in this case that might still be the easiest way to go about it.


Ahhh yes, now I see how voiceleading could help then.

I was just hoping there was a way to avoid all of the hunting and pecking
Like if certain chords usually get substituted/extended in a certain way. If the best way really is to just keep trying different combinations, then so be it.

(PS: I wrote it as a i VI iio V in F#m)
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Who's going to stop you? The music police?
Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Aug 15, 2010,
#8
i see this being in the key of A...

i extended the F#mi7 to a mi9-so it could be a AMA7 .. and the G#dim i converted to a E7b9..this would make a IMA7-IVMA7-V7...then the III7 chord ... from there anything is possible..circle of fifths..tritone subs..or just key based progression of 3-6-2-5-1..depending on melodic direction..

play well

wolf
#9
Quote by FacetOfChaos
Ahhh yes, now I see how voiceleading could help then.


I could see how 'knowing how to write for 4 voices' differs from 'knowing how to write for 4 good sounding voices'

I was just hoping there was a way to avoid all of the hunting and pecking
Like if certain chords usually get substituted/extended in a certain way. If the best way really is to just keep trying different combinations, then so be it.


Well, this is my personal oppinion, YMMV, but the only thing that matters for a chord is the basic triad. That is where the progression, tonality, harmony and general fundaments. You can sub a extension or altered chord for it's triad without being wrong. It might not be as effective or have the cool results, but it's functionally the same.

Choosing wheter or not to make extended or added chords and when.. well, it's for one thing it could function to establish a tonality. For example, G Major -> C Major is a lot more ambiguous on what key or even scale family it's in. G7 -> C Major7 is a *lot* less ambiguous.

Also, with voiceleading, it's generally understood that for example 7th and 5th degrees try to pull towards the root they are relative to the root. Okay, that is worded a bit confusing, but say for example you have a movement that goes bE Major to F# Major.. now, I can strenghten that movement with the seventh of F# Major, which is F. In the key of bE Major, F is the (major) second. That means that by instead playing bE Major add 9, I put in a note 'leading' into the next chord.

For any other ways of figuring out exotics and the like, well, it's all up to how harmonically rich it sounds right, the melody that is going on.. there are no hard & fast rules here.. the whole thing about chords is a way to make melodies have consistent harmony.

Just remember that there is always some hunting and picking going to happen... no amount of reading books and making notes can replace actually using your ears.
Remember, theory describes, it doesnt proscribe!
#10
Quote by pwrmax
Make sure the extension fits in the key if that's what you're aiming for.


^ this


Here is a chart you might find helpful....

Major & minor scales harmonized (with possible extensions)

Roman numerals represent the triad level..... underneath those are the possible extensions for each chord.

I suggest using that chart and experimenting with adding extensions to chords in standard progressions.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Aug 15, 2010,
#11
Quote by Eastwinn
Understanding voiceleading would be useful.

I agree with this. Learn voice-leading and learn the rules behind it, aka counterpoint. If you can, look into free counterpoint or "prolonged" counterpoint. Most extended chords seen in classical music and even big band jazz music is a result of "prolonged" counterpoint.

For instance, fourth species (should be about the fifth or sixth week or lesson you do on counterpoint) tells of something called a "suspension," where a note keep playing from another chord into the new chord. Classical composers found they can use a seventh interval without it sounding out of place. This gave rise to the seventh and ninth chord (in inversions, of course).
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.