Page 1 of 6
#1
Just seen a news article on a site which states that the NHS may refuse to treat, or limit treatment of, people who are deemed to be deliberately unhealthy, including smokers and the obese who are not suffering from any medical condition to make them so.

The cuts are said to be necessary because Britons are increasingly unwilling to take care of their own health, including cutting back on fatty foods and not drinking or smoking as much, and the resulting strain on the NHS is costing billions of pounds which are seen as wasteful when people could self-help.

I really hope this doesn't happen. This is not going to solve anything at all. Decreased healthcare will only lead to MORE illhealth.

Here's one article on it- http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23867394-unhealthy-to-be-denied-medical-treatment.do


Opinions? Should people be forced to pay for their lifestyle choices?
#3
No, typical torrie idea's and knowing britain people will be excluded for stupid reasons yeah your fat so you owe us a few grand for us helping you survive that car crash.
Last edited by josh999x at Aug 16, 2010,
#4
Quote by josh999x
No, typical torrie idea's and knowing britain people will be excluded for stupid reasons yeah your fat so you owe us a few grand for us helping you survive that car crash.



Eh?
#5
Personally i agree with it if you're a smoker. If you won't get treatment i'm sure people would quit and less would start.
Also if you have no disorder but need a mobilty scooter to get around you should have to pay for treatment. Them people enrage me so much.
Good idea imo
#6
I'm in two minds about this. One side thinks, we should help people that need help. The other side thinks, because I'm attending medical school next year and I'm going to be a doctor, why should we treat people who bring it upon themselves when we could put more into saving the lives of those with no control over their illness.

I think I'll side with the first side.
Quote by boreamor
Ah very good point. Charlie__flynn, you've out smarted me


People
should
smile
more



crit4crit on 'acoustic 1 (with piano)' here



Rate my playing skills please.
#7
Quote by Burningritual
Personally i agree with it if you're a smoker. If you won't get treatment i'm sure people would quit and less would start.
Also if you have no disorder but need a mobilty scooter to get around you should have to pay for treatment. Them people enrage me so much.


This.

Quote by Burningritual
Also if you have no disorder but need a mobilty scooter to get around you should have to pay for treatment. Them people enrage me so much.
Good idea imo


but then what?

If they need a mobility scooter, then they... need one...
Quote by theogonia777
and then there's free jazz, which isn't even for musicians.

Quote by Born A Fool
As my old guitar teacher once said: Metal really comes from classical music. The only difference is pinch harmonics, double bass, and lyrics about killing goats.
#8
Once they get addicted (to smoking OR eating) they have a hard time quitting even if they want to. I think they should fund and help them overcome that and if they fail then don't pay for em.

#9
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Eh?


You will be forced to pay for things that have nothing to do with what you are being treated for i can understand a smoker paying for lung cancer but i could also see them being made to pay for unrelated things that cannot be caused by smoking or being obese.

It just undermines the whole idea of the NHS which is fair equal treatment for everyone and in my opinion is a bad idea full stop.
Last edited by josh999x at Aug 16, 2010,
#10
"deliberately unhealthy"?

I smoke and always try to get at least an hour or so of excercise each day :/

They may as well refuse services to caffeine consumers and people who eat junk food :O
#12
to Dream Floyd.
I was on about the obesity thing t/s brought up. Fat people should get treatment but if you've stuffed your face to the point where you can't walk and washing is rubbing a wet wipe inbetween rolls of flab then you've brought that sorry state on youself just like smokers damage themselves.
Yeah they can have a mobility scooter but should pay for treatment
#13
I fully support making them pay for the health care. Why should they receive free care for something they have the power to do something about when there are others that are truly in need of the care?
#14
Quote by Burningritual
to Dream Floyd.
I was on about the obesity thing t/s brought up. Fat people should get treatment but if you've stuffed your face to the point where you can't walk and washing is rubbing a wet wipe inbetween rolls of flab then you've brought that sorry state on youself just like smokers damage themselves.
Yeah they can have a mobility scooter but should pay for treatment


What if their weight is caused by serious clinical depression or a metabolic condition?
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#15
Unhealthy people already pay a large enough price in that they have a shorter life, feel worse, and possibly look worse.

Play a Cort ?

Play with V-Picks ?

Every minute is to be Grasped........................................................................Time waits for nobody.

#16
Quote by piratemetalhead
"deliberately unhealthy"?

I smoke and always try to get at least an hour or so of excercise each day :/

They may as well refuse services to caffeine consumers and people who eat junk food :O



If you smoke, chances are at some point you'll fall ill because of it, exercise or not.


But I am sure they would factor in your general lifestyle into their decision not to treat or treat you.
#17
Quote by X V I I
I fully support making them pay for the health care. Why should they receive free care for something they have the power to do something about when there are others that are truly in need of the care?


Addicts are no more able to stop using than depressives are able to just be happy.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#18
This will just leave fatties in debt, which in turn will make them stressed and want to comfort eat, worsening their health until they die.

The Conservatives want fatties to die.

/ignorant statement
Spin round carousel
When your horse isn't screwed in

I II III VI:1 VI:2
Last edited by mullet1337 at Aug 16, 2010,
#19
Quote by leeb rocks
What if their weight is caused by serious clinical depression or a metabolic condition?


Again, if this is the case then a doctor will be able to differentiate and so decide to treat. People with depression will show symptoms than just the weight issues, as will metabolic disorders.
#20
Quote by leeb rocks
What if their weight is caused by serious clinical depression or a metabolic condition?

read my first post im not explaining again.
And addicts get themselves addicted they don't deserve sympathy. People always go on about getting to the CAUSE of problems. If people aren't going to get treatment if they're a smoker or druggy then they're not going to start in the first place. This isn't like saying if you have sex we wont treat you, its for the greater good of everyone in the future
Last edited by Burningritual at Aug 16, 2010,
#21
I heard you Brits were ditching Nationalized Healthcare completely; that over a period of 5 years or so, you intend to privatize healthcare in Great Britain.
#23
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I heard you Brits were ditching Nationalized Healthcare completely; that over a period of 5 years or so, you intend to privatize healthcare in Great Britain.



yaaaay! Then we'd have a healthcare system worth a damn!
#24
When it comes to limiting treatment for smokers, I don't know the exact figures for the amount the government gains in duty on tobacco and the "extra" amount spent in treating smokers, but that is something to be looked at before preventing treatment to smokers.

When it comes to stopping treatment of obese this will further the divide in healthcare between social classes. Already those classified in a lower social class receive less treatment proportionally than those in a higher social class. With obesity being more prevalent in lower social classes (at least I think so, I don't remember reading any official figures on this) for a number of reasons (eg better education in higher social classes, cheap food generally being high in fat etc) this will further cause a greater divide in the treatment of people in society.

EDIT: For those interested to see the issues of social class and healthcare look at:
  • Black Report (1980)
  • Whitehead Report (1987)
  • Acheson Report (1998)
  • Marmot Review (2010)
Founder of Jaco society

[22:08:23] <Confusius> I wish I was a bassist
[22:08:26] <Confusius> you fuckers look cool


Want to know how to play bass in jazz? Read this.
Last edited by sinan90 at Aug 16, 2010,
#25
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
yaaaay! Then we'd have a healthcare system worth a damn!


You're a moron. Really. I can't even express how idiotic you are.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#26
Quote by leeb rocks
Addicts are no more able to stop using than depressives are able to just be happy.


I fully understand this, being a smoker myself. But if you're going to make the choice to do something that is detrimental to your health, knowing what can happen, then that's on you. Instead of free health care for those in question, what about offering support groups or assistance in aiding in the quitting smoking, getting to a healthy weight/ etc?
#27
Quote by leeb rocks
You're a moron. Really. I can't even express how idiotic you are.



Not at all.


Also, this is almost siggable.
#28
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I heard you Brits were ditching Nationalized Healthcare completely; that over a period of 5 years or so, you intend to privatize healthcare in Great Britain.


You heard wrong. No one with a brain wants that.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#29
Quote by X V I I
I fully understand this, being a smoker myself. But if you're going to make the choice to do something that is detrimental to your health, knowing what can happen, then that's on you. Instead of free health care for those in question, what about offering support groups or assistance in aiding in the quitting smoking, getting to a healthy weight/ etc?

I smoked 30 roll ups a day for 7 years. I haven't smoked in the past three weeks. Of course you can quit if you have will power. I'm sick of people pussying around everything these days you don't need councelling for fags, you're not ill.
#30
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
Not at all.


No really. Words genuinely fail me when I try to describe how monumentally moronic you are. I'm probably being trolled to within an inch of mylife but honestly I'd rather that than people like you walking around.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#31
If you ask me it all sounds disturbingly similar to that 'pre-existing condition' crap that American Insurance companies like to pull.

The NHS is meant to provide treatment to everyone, not just those David Cameron deems worthy.
#32
Quote by leeb rocks
No really. Words genuinely fail me when I try to describe how monumentally moronic you are. I'm probably being trolled to within an inch of mylife but honestly I'd rather that than people like you walking around.



I genuinely DO think that the NHS SHOULD be partially privatized.


It's called an opinion. I'm allowed them you know?
#33
Quote by sinan90
When it comes to limiting treatment for smokers, I don't know the exact figures for the amount the government gains in duty on tobacco and the "extra" amount spent in treating smokers, but that is something to be looked at before preventing treatment to smokers.

When it comes to stopping treatment of obese this will further the divide in healthcare between social classes. Already those classified in a lower social class receive less treatment proportionally than those in a higher social class. With obesity being more prevalent in lower social classes (at least I think so, I don't remember reading any official figures on this) for a number of reasons (eg better education in higher social classes, cheap food generally being high in fat etc) this will further cause a greater divide in the treatment of people in society.

EDIT: For those interested to see the issues of social class and healthcare look at:
  • Black Report (1980)
  • Whitehead Report (1987)
  • Acheson Report (1998)
  • Marmot Review (2010)


the black report.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#34
Quote by Burningritual
I smoked 30 roll ups a day for 7 years. I haven't smoked in the past three weeks. Of course you can quit if you have will power. I'm sick of people pussying around everything these days you don't need councelling for fags, you're not ill.


I personally agree with you, but not everyone has the flat-out ability to just up and quit, or ween themselves off. I could quit smoking at any time, for instance, but I know tons of people in my community that simply are too weak-minded or honestly, rather lazy, to do so. It's rather pathetic in my eyes, but what can we do about it?
#35
Quote by X V I I
I personally agree with you, but not everyone has the flat-out ability to just up and quit, or ween themselves off. I could quit smoking at any time, for instance, but I know tons of people in my community that simply are too weak-minded or honestly, rather lazy, to do so. It's rather pathetic in my eyes, but what can we do about it?

I get you, i tried quitting a few times before i did it this time. My point is support groups are going to cost money, use that on drugs to help people live instead of stuff for people who are just weak minded or like cream cakes.
#36
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
I genuinely DO think that the NHS SHOULD be partially privatized.


It's called an opinion. I'm allowed them you know?


When did I say you weren't allowed to? I just said no one with half a brain agrees.

People in support. Why should climbers not be penalised? It causes countless accidents. Same with skiers, horseriders or practitioners of any extreme sport.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#37
Quote by X V I I
I personally agree with you, but not everyone has the flat-out ability to just up and quit, or ween themselves off. I could quit smoking at any time, for instance, but I know tons of people in my community that simply are too weak-minded or honestly, rather lazy, to do so. It's rather pathetic in my eyes, but what can we do about it?



If they are, then hitting them where it hurts (in the pocket) might be a wake-up call. When you're not paying for something, it's easy to become complacent and lazy.
#38
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
If they are, then hitting them where it hurts (in the pocket) might be a wake-up call. When you're not paying for something, it's easy to become complacent and lazy.

Thank you for saying that.
#39
Quote by Burningritual
I get you, i tried quitting a few times before i did it this time. My point is support groups are going to cost money, use that on drugs to help people live instead of stuff for people who are just weak minded or like cream cakes.


Or, you know, have a genetic predisposition to being susceptible to the effects of these drugs. If someone has a high genetic chance of developing an illness we don;t refuse to treat them. Addictions are no different.
Quote by Nosferatu Man

T-shirts are a sign of degeneration and decline.
#40
Quote by leeb rocks
Or, you know, have a genetic predisposition to being susceptible to the effects of these drugs. If someone has a high genetic chance of developing an illness we don;t refuse to treat them. Addictions are no different.

People don't choose messed up genes. They do choose to put addictive substances into their bodies. Addiction is not an illness.