#1
Well, I was on Youtube when an interesting video caught my eye. (Hold your *reported*, that's not what this is about).

It was a Valedictorian's speech about how the school system is flawed. The idea behind her speech is that school works only to make students memorize facts, and encourage "critical thinking", instead of encouraging kid's to pursue their own interest's. If everyone doesn't grow up to have the same job, why does everyone get the same exact education? Actually, it sort of reminded me of the Calvin and Hobbes comic:




Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4tdMsg3ts

The full speech in text is too long for the this post, but you can find it Here.

I guess I just though that it was pretty interesting, and that she had a good point, your thoughts Pit?

EDIT: Don't even bother posting unless you at least read the speech...
Last edited by Epicbizzjizz at Aug 17, 2010,
#2
Quote by Epicbizzjizz


It was a Valedictorian's speech about how the school system is flawed. The idea behind her speech is that school works only to make students memorize facts, and encourage "critical thinking", instead of encouraging kid's to pursue their own interest's. Actually, it sort of reminded me of the Calvin and Hobbes comic:



I believe high schools have multiple after school clubs and extra classes that you can choose to take. It is up to the student to make the most of their time at school. If the kids can't feed their interest's and curiosity at school they will just start smoking pot.
#3
The education system is flawed, anyone can see that. She's not really making an insightful point so much as bringing attention to it, which can be important as well I suppose. Anyway, she's not the most dynamic speaker and I lost interest after a few minutes.
#4
Quote by levi.lydat
I believe high schools have multiple after school clubs and extra classes that you can choose to take. It is up to the student to make the most of their time at school. If the kids can't feed their interest's and curiosity at school they will just start smoking pot.


While I find it funny that you speak of this as an absolute you have a point, but the idea is that it shouldn't be that way. They should help kids want to learn.
#5
Whilst reciting facts like the date the Declaration of Independence was signed doesn't automatically get you a job, it does develop memory, research ability etc.

And guess what? Those are useful abilities, which are applied in every day life.

Whilst schooling may not fill your head with all the knowledge you'll need for the rest of your life, it does provide you with the tools and techniques to function in a modern society.
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#7
So, you're questioning education? Now?

Of course the education system is flawed. I thought we all pretty much figured that out on day one.

No offense, TS. But this topic is nothing new. School focuses on filling up students with knowledge rather than actually having their kids use their brains for critical problem solving.

The truth is, that's for college.

Not everyone gets the "same education" as you said. We all start off the same way, sure. But your real education begins after high school.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#8
Quote by SlinkyBlue
So, you're questioning education? Now?

Of course the education system is flawed. I thought we all pretty much figured that out on day one.

No offense, TS. But this topic is nothing new. School focuses on filling up students with knowledge rather than actually having their kids use their brains for critical problem solving.

The truth is, that's for college.

Not everyone gets the "same education" as you said. We all start off the same way, sure. But your real education begins after high school.


So we wasted 18 years? That's a problem the way I see it. And even if it common knowledge that it's flawed, why is nobody working to fix it?

I'm just proud of the young speaker, and I wish there were more people like her. Someone that sees what's wrong with the world and wants to fix it.
#10
She's not saying that EVERYONE wastes their school time, she's saying SHE did because she never bothered to have other interests outside of school and never developed herself as a person.
I mean, can you imagine having gone through school and college being a total bookworm with no interests? I'd really say that someone who lives that way is wasting their time.

EDIT: I've been telling that to friends of mine who get all bent out of shape, depressed etc. because of school and uni work for years; school isn't everything.
Especially nothing to get depressed about.
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Aug 17, 2010,
#11
I'm a couple of minutes in and I agree with everything she's said so far, at least in my school they focus almost entirely on learning things which will not help you in the slightest in your everyday life, beyond passing an exam.

When we were doing our GCSEs, the head of year used to give us speeches about once a week on how everyone had to put absolutely everything into passing them, and if you failed you would never get a job or go anywhere in life. Which is, of course, total bullshit. For tech courses and most basic jobs you just need maths and English.

Not everything in life is purely academic. Some people will need to go down the path of passing exams, but for those who don't, they should focus on other things which will be more helpful to them.
#12
I was in a program in high school where we had the same core teachers all four years. We focused on projects that we could draw comparisons to and apply in the real world. The teachers would set up Socratic seminars where we would intensely discuss certain topics from the past and present that were relevant to us in order to diminish ignorance and promote tolerance so to speak. We still had some standard curriculum, but most of it concentrated on critical thinking. These four teachers had the same mindset that this girl has, and I am forever thankful for their encouragement for students to pursue their passions.

However, the other programs like AP and Dual Credit (students and teachers) absolutely hated us. They felt that our way of learning wasn't elite and traditional enough. It got pretty ugly between us.
"The rule of law -- it must be held high! And if it falls you pick it up and hold it even higher!" - Hercule Poirot

© Soul Power
#14
MAXWELL DORIAN, VALEDICTORIAN
I SPEAK IN THREE WEEKS TO THE ENTIRE AUDITORIUM
HEAVY CORDS BUT I BEAR 'EM, MEDALS CHAFE BUT I WEAR 'EM
SIX STEPS TO ACADEMIC SUCCESS, NOW LET ME SHARE 'EM:

FIRST PERIOD, CALCULUS, EASY AS PI
BUT SUCKAS REAL AS i, THEY TRY TO SPY MY ASSIGNMENT
THEY'D LIKE TO DERIVE WHAT'S INSIDE OF MY HEAD
THAT'S WHERE I MAKE MATH MY MISTRESS, DENOMINATE HER IN BED

KANT KEEP UP WITH ME ONCE PHILOSOPHY STARTS
SO SMART I PICK SARTRE APART, DISCREDIT DESCARTES
I THINK THEREFORE I AM AT THE TOP OF MY CLASS
WHY AM I HERE? LET ME THINK, TO KICK ASS

A THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF THOREAU, THIRD PERIOD
A MYRIAD OF WEARY EYES READ THE (IRA) ILIAD
BUT NOT ME I'M A.P. THAT TEXT IS TOO TAME
THEY'RE STRIKING OUT WITH HOMER, I'M RE-JOYCE-IN' IN JAMES

P.E.'S NOT EXACTLY FOR ME, BUT I DON'T CARE
I'LL GET MY "A" ANYWAY-- IN BAND I'M FIRST CHAIR
PIANISSIMO, FORTISSIMO, I GOTTA BE HEARD
YEAH I NEVER MISS A CODA-- NEVER MISS A CODA-- WORD!

SIXTH PERIOD, HISTORY, TOP OF MY GAME
I'M LIKE NAPOLEON BUT TALL, WITHOUT A RUSSIAN CAMPAIGN
I DIDN'T STUDY FOR THE FINAL I'M A DOWNRIGHT HISTORIAN
....MAXWELL DORIAN, SALUTATORIAN





EDIT: Gonna watch the vidya now.

RE-EDIT: Was pretty interesting.. I feel the same way about how it's inhuman for us to be forced into repetition and what basically is slavery with unworthy pay. But I never realized that not once in my schooltime was I encouraged to be creative, I just had facts shoved down my throat and any free-thinking was simply marked as wrong.
Last edited by Bearded_Seth at Aug 17, 2010,
#15
Damn good speech.
I can speak from experience when I say that it is true, the modern schooling system of just teaching you enough to get you through the exams sucks.

I left school in 1982, and we'd gone through pretty much the same system as you guys are going through today, 'learn the facts that will get you through the exams'.
But I'm the kinda person who can only really take something in if I was interested in it, and because I had no interest in most of those facts, I didn't do well at learning them. Needless to say, I didn't do very well on my exams.
I entered the education system at 4 years old and left school at 16 with hardly anything to show for it, the only job I could get (and this was a time when jobs were fairly easy to get) was working as an apprentice in a factory, making 'shuttles' which were used in weaving. It was a dying industry because modern looms don't use shuttles.
Shuttlemaking was mainly wood machining, not 'woodwork' like we had learned at school, how to make dovetail joints and use a plane or a saw or a hammer, but rather the setting up of machines, specificaly designed for shuttlemaking, that then did the job for you. What I learned in school was not going to be any help here. And to make matters worse, I found myself in a pretty depressing place, working in a dead end industry that had no future which I had no interest whatsover in anyway, but luckily for me, there was one old guy there that would change my life.

He was the work's blackmith. Traditionaly shuttle mills used to employ one to make all the metal parts of the shuttle, in those days, there were three existing shuttle mills, (there's none now) and our was the only one that made all the metal parts in the traditional manner, all hand forged, rather than machined in another factory. Out of everyone in the place his job looked the most interesting to me, the heat, the sparks, the large hammers, the fact that you could make toast while you worked at the forge. But what really interested me was that while everyone else there had a skill that was only useful for shuttlemaking, (setting up a shuttlemaking machine) his was a skill that could be used in many different ways.
So I was naturaly thrilled when I was placed as his apprentice after two years of trying out different boring (literaly 'boring' I spent 6 months doing nothing but operating a machine that 'bored' holes in blocks of wood) departments.
At school I had always struggled to understand imperial measurements, fractions and such. Which the teachers didn't seem to think mattered all that much anyway since 'we were all decimalised now', but unfortunately for me, this place still operated on imperial measurements, so the first thing he taught me was how to understand it. It took him 10 minutes with the aid of an imperial 12 inch ruler, and by then I fully understood it.
All those years of school and no one had ever been able to explain it in a way I understood, yet this guy taught me all I needed to know about it in just 10 minutes.
And he was pretty much like that with everything. We'd work side by side and talk for hours while we worked, he'd lived a long and very experienced life, and gone through some pretty serious shit in his time, and because of that I respected and took notice of what he said, and what he said instilled a sense of morality in me that neither my parents nor my teachers could have achieved.

I loved working with that guy, he appealed to my interest in history because he had been a frontline soldier during WW2 and had lots of stories to tell. But he taught me so much more about 'actual life' in the 5 years I worked with him (until he sadly died) than I ever learned at school.
I loved the job, it appealed to my artistic nature, he taught me how to twist metal bend metal and basicaly make metal conform to the shape that I wanted it to be... but as I said earlier, it was a dying industry.

So I was eventualy out of work, luckily a friend who was a biker asked me if I could make him a custom sissy bar for his bike, I said 'no problem' and made it. He showed it to someone else who ran a custom motorcycle shop, a bit like 'American Chopper' but without the hissy fits, he was impressed with my work so he asked if I would like to work for him fabricating one off custom parts and I accepted.
It was a fun job that further appealed to my artistic nature, but unfortunately his business sense left a bit to be desired and the place eventualy closed down, but during my time there, I did get to meet some incredible artists that could paint anything. This inspired me to start painting myself, but on canvas rather than on metal, in the style of the classic and impressionist painters that appealed to my interest in history.

Meanwhile I was slowly getting better as a self taught musician, playing more and more gigs with lots of different bands and also learning, through trial and error, how to handle the business and promotion side of being a jobbing musician.
This eventualy led to me touring the country many times, and easily earning enough to make a living, but it really is a young man's game end eventualy I had to start turning to other things to suppliment my wages, so I returned to painting.

Now I'm a portrait artist, I'm just starting to get somewhere with it and the gigging is now supplimenting it rather than it supplimenting the gigging (and I still do the occasional piece of custom metalwork for people too) and the promotional skills that I learned gigging around the country is proving itself to be useful too. I'm not rich, but I get by and I'm enjoying what I do, which to me makes it all worthwhile

So what's the point of this long (sorry) post?
The point is, nothing I learned at school, apart from how to read and add up, has been any use to my chosen professions whatsoever. Everything I've done, apart from what I learned as an apprentice blacksmith, has been self taught out of necessity because school didn't provide me with what I needed to know to have a worthwhile career, but rather concentrated on attempting (and failing) to get me through my exams, which in essence is the accumulation of what someone else thinks is important for my career.
I basicaly wasted 12 years of my life in public education because of it. The people who were supposedly my 'teachers' were not 'teachers' at all, they were 'trainers', training pupils for the exams, that old guy I worked with in the shuttle mill was a 'teacher'.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Aug 17, 2010,
#16
^Dude... I feel like I just read a script to a movie. Joking aside, it was actually a pretty interesting read.

But that is exactly what I mean, you actually brought up 2 very good points.

1.Nothing in the 12 years of schooling helped you with the career YOU wanted.
2.Another good point is when you mentioned how you always had trouble with imperial measurements, and school was no help for that, but when someone actually took the time to show you, it made sense. I suspect you are a touch/experience learner (There are 3 main ways people learn), which is why the traditional schooling system is next to useless for people that learn that way (and why an apprenticeship was a perfect job for you).

EDIT: You story actually got me thinking, about what a poor job school actually does to help you get into a career. I mean, I remember back in 8th grade we spent just one semester in some pathetic "Career Assessment Program", we were supposed to figure out what we wanted to do when we got out of High School, but it was a joke. The entire class was basically taking silly tests. "Do you enjoy working with your hands?" Uh, how the F should I know?

Well to make a long story short, nobody figured out anything, and a couple students (me included) who got fed up with it would just mess with the teacher the whole time...
Last edited by Epicbizzjizz at Aug 17, 2010,
#17
Quote by levi.lydat
I believe high schools have multiple after school clubs and extra classes that you can choose to take. It is up to the student to make the most of their time at school. If the kids can't feed their interest's and curiosity at school they will just start smoking pot.

I can't speak for all schools, but I can speak for mine, and I can assure you that you are wrong. My school's philosophy is that if you don't want to be a business man, an engineer, or a doctor you can **** off. They keep telling us we have to make choices about our careers, but they keep wanting to make choices for us with tests that show us what our interests are in their eyes then a few jobs that would have you sitting in a cubicle until your brain rots and you become a happy average citizen who doesn't think and ask questions in that area of interests.

That's my way of looking at things anyway. The biggest flaw with our education system though is the grading system.
The kids who get A's become narcissistic pricks who have a mental breakdown whenever they don't do well in something, the kids with B's and C's (like me) are the ones who can get A's but don't care enough because a lot of this stuff is useless bullshit anyway, and the kids with D's and F's have their self-esteems beaten with a lead pipe by the teachers until they don't even want to try anymore.
Last edited by cornmancer at Aug 17, 2010,
#18
Quote by Epicbizzjizz
^Dude... I feel like I just read a script to a movie. Joking aside, it was actually a pretty interesting read.

But that is exactly what I mean, you actually brought up 2 very good points.

1.Nothing in the 12 years of schooling helped you with the career YOU wanted.
2.Another good point is when you mentioned how you always had trouble with imperial measurements, and school was no help for that, but when someone actually took the time to show you, it made sense. I suspect you are a touch/experience learner (There are 3 main ways people learn), which is why the traditional schooling system is next to useless for people that learn that way (and why an apprenticeship was a perfect job for you).


Cheers bud.

Point 1 raises an interesting point in itself though. At 16 years old, I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do with my life. This suggests to me that school should really concentrate firstly on finding out what your natural skills and interests are, then on developing those natural skills and interests to the point that you can either find employment with them or become self employed.
And up to a point, school does attempt to do this, such as when you have options over which classes you wish to take, for us the choices were woodwork and metalwork or needlework and cooking, or arts and crafts or secretarial skills and also we had the choice of either French, German or Latin as a second language and the choice of which science we wished to concentrate on, but those specialised 'skills' classes were always just a couple of hours a week, while the rest of my school time was spent learning crap like where exactly a comma should go, the difference between adjectives and adverbs or mathematical equasions that I'd either never have to use, or if I did, could simply work them out with a calculator.
For example, we actualy spent a whole year of maths lessons, which we had every day, concentrating on hardly anything but logarithms, so by the time we left school, half the pupils knew how to do something they'd never use again for the rest of their lives but yet still didn't know how to correctly wire up a plug, or change a fuse, or wash and iron a shirt, or change a nappy, or maintane a car, or decorate a room, or how to do basic first aid... y'know, the mundane but pretty much essential basic skills for everyday life.

Quote by cornmancer
I can't speak for all schools, but I can speak for mine, and I can assure you that you are wrong. My school's philosophy is that if you don't want to be a business man, an engineer, or a doctor you can **** off. They keep telling us we have to make choices about our careers, but they keep wanting to make choices for us with tests that show us what our interests are in their eyes then a few jobs that would have you sitting in a cubicle until your brain rots and you become a happy average citizen who doesn't think and ask questions in that area of interests.

That's my way of looking at things anyway. The biggest flaw with our education system though is the grading system.
The kids who get A's become narcissistic pricks who have a mental breakdown whenever they don't do well in something, the kids with B's and C's (like me) are the ones who can get A's but don't care enough because a lot of this stuff is useless bullshit anyway, and the kids with D's and F's have their self-esteems beaten with a lead pipe by the teachers until they don't even want to try anymore.


Agreed completely, I was one of the kids with the D's and F's.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Aug 17, 2010,
#19
Needs more 'yes we can'.

Edit: I don't like that comic. I still remember and use a lot of the stuff that I learned in school. English taught me to look behind the words, maths taught me to think logically, science taught me about the world, religious studies and history taught me about culture, economics taught me about tax and investment etc.

Although students sometimes don't realise it, the stuff you learn in school IS useful. I can't comment on the teaching methods though as I never had any problem with the traditional system.
Quote by Epicbizzjizz
Was this supposed to be funny?

It was just an observation that it was a pretty boring speech. I used 'yes we can' as an example for public speaking techniques.

...but it was also funny in my mind...
PPPPPPPOSTFINDER
Last edited by breadstick at Aug 17, 2010,
#20
Quote by breadstick
Needs more 'yes we can'.


Was this supposed to be funny?
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and class less and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

A working class hero is something to be.
#21
Quote by breadstick
Needs more 'yes we can'.

Edit: I don't like that comic. I still remember and use a lot of the stuff that I learned in school. English taught me to look behind the words, maths taught me to think logically, science taught me about the world, religious studies and history taught me about culture, economics taught me about tax and investment etc.

Although students sometimes don't realise it, the stuff you learn in school IS useful. I can't comment on the teaching methods though as I never had any problem with the traditional system.

It was just an observation that it was a pretty boring speech. I used 'yes we can' as an example for public speaking techniques.

...but it was also funny in my mind...


I'm completely with you man.

I may not be able to recall all the facts I learnt at school to pass my exams, but the techniques it encouraged me to develop are still useful today.
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#22
I find the school system here in Norway better. For instance, we learnt history instead of only remembering useless names and dates. Our school system cares about every individual, and do not compare tst results. I bet I could get mostly A's in the US, because focusing on almost only names and nunbers, whether it is dates or chemical functions and substances, is a lot easier than actually learning the stuff.
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Last edited by sfaune92 at Aug 17, 2010,
#23
Quote by breadstick
Needs more 'yes we can'.

Edit: I don't like that comic. I still remember and use a lot of the stuff that I learned in school. English taught me to look behind the words, maths taught me to think logically, science taught me about the world, religious studies and history taught me about culture, economics taught me about tax and investment etc.

Although students sometimes don't realise it, the stuff you learn in school IS useful. I can't comment on the teaching methods though as I never had any problem with the traditional system.

It was just an observation that it was a pretty boring speech. I used 'yes we can' as an example for public speaking techniques.

...but it was also funny in my mind...


I suppose I see the joke now, but the girl that mad the speech is and intelligent speaker...


Either way, while you are right that we DO learn things from school, whether it be habits, thinking, et cetera. It doesn't really push the individual student to pursue his or her interests, only to succeed at the prerequisite classes. A one size fits all teaching method is not very effective.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and class less and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

A working class hero is something to be.
#24
Quote by Epicbizzjizz
I suppose I see the joke now, but the girl that mad the speech is and intelligent speaker...


Either way, while you are right that we DO learn things from school, whether it be habits, thinking, et cetera. It doesn't really push the individual student to pursue his or her interests, only to succeed at the prerequisite classes. A one size fits all teaching method is not very effective.

Good luck on finding the cash to change that.
#25
Quote by MightyAl
Good luck on finding the cash to change that.


Man-o-man, if only we had 700 billion dollars, well at least we didn't blow it on a failed stimulus bill...
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and class less and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

A working class hero is something to be.
#26
Quote by SlinkyBlue
So, you're questioning education? Now?

Of course the education system is flawed. I thought we all pretty much figured that out on day one.

No offense, TS. But this topic is nothing new. School focuses on filling up students with knowledge rather than actually having their kids use their brains for critical problem solving.

The truth is, that's for college.

Not everyone gets the "same education" as you said. We all start off the same way, sure. But your real education begins after high school.


Most people don't get to college. He never said it was a groundbreaking speech. Critical problem solving is not "for college". It is what education is supposed to be about.


It's a good speech. I worked at a school for a month a while ago and they were running a special project where kids picked a question they thought was interesting that they had to research and produce a presentation on. The reaction from kids and teachers was almost entirely positive. That was a comprehensive state school, albeit an extremely well run one. It's possible to structure the education system in a way that doesn't do this and there are a few private schools that do. It just requires a lot of investment and would be dismissed as hippie bullshit.
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#27
Quote by Meths
Most people don't get to college. He never said it was a groundbreaking speech. Critical problem solving is not "for college". It is what education is supposed to be about.


It's a good speech. I worked at a school for a month a while ago and they were running a special project where kids picked a question they thought was interesting that they had to research and produce a presentation on. The reaction from kids and teachers was almost entirely positive. That was a comprehensive state school, albeit an extremely well run one. It's possible to structure the education system in a way that doesn't do this and there are a few private schools that do. It just requires a lot of investment and would be dismissed as hippie bullshit.


Which is why it will/would be extremely tough. Still, in my opinion, the tradition teaching method should be dropped by high school so that students can be encouraged to start a CAREER not get a DIPLOMA.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and class less and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

A working class hero is something to be.
#28
Quote by levi.lydat
If the kids can't feed their interest's and curiosity at school they will just start smoking pot.

Worked for me.

I learned the finer points of improvisation and have had many stimulating and quite in-depth conversations "on pot." Many of them had the potential for becoming quality graduate research studies or Doctoral theses.

I didn't give a crap for High School and didn't really care for College, either, in terms of the social scene, football games and all of that.

I have a 3.6 GPA in the sciences.

The social shit is not for everybody.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#29
Quote by Meths
Most people don't get to college. He never said it was a groundbreaking speech. Critical problem solving is not "for college". It is what education is supposed to be about.


It's a good speech. I worked at a school for a month a while ago and they were running a special project where kids picked a question they thought was interesting that they had to research and produce a presentation on. The reaction from kids and teachers was almost entirely positive. That was a comprehensive state school, albeit an extremely well run one. It's possible to structure the education system in a way that doesn't do this and there are a few private schools that do. It just requires a lot of investment and would be dismissed as hippie bullshit.


The sad truth.

I never said I disagree with the OP, it's just a topic that's a little run-down to me because I don't feel like it's going to change in the big picture.

This is coming from a guy who's studying to become a U.S. / World History teacher in High School for this very reason; lack of critical thinking that I think I can bring into school if kids are open minded enough.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#30
A lot of the problems with Education parallel similar problems with the workplace, hospitals and the correctional system.

After the Industrial Revolution the population exploded. Working with little historical precedent as far as what to do with the higher population density, the system found it necessary to homogenize.

That was an excusable short-term solution to overcrowding. The "Little Red Schoolhouse" model broke down and millions of kids needed an education.

I'd say that they did a fairly good job in the 50's and 60's under those circumstances with the Baby Boomers, albeit a rather "one size fits all" McDonald's type of solution.

We should have left that system behind, though, and invested some of our vast resources in finding better solutions to managing highly dense populations. Now these "treat them like cattle" solutions are seen as "wisdom" by the masses who do not see the benefits of changing what apparently worked for them.

The reason it seems to have worked for them is that they simultaneously segregated classes, races, religions and so on, so anybody that it didn't work for ended up in prison or a mental institution or the streets or the ghetto or wherever.

For all of the Suburbanite masses for whom the Friday Night Football one-size-fits-all education worked, it seemed the only possible choice.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#31
I thought the speech was very interesting, as was Slacker Babbath's story.

I did the IB curriculum, and got to choose which subjects I took. I guess that is, in some way, catering to the students' abilities rather than a one-size-fits-all programme.
I agree with Slacker Babbath that I'd like to see some important life skills taught in school.
Interestingly, I remember I made a thread some time ago asking why schools don't teach you things like how to open and manage a bank account or how to fix your heating system. The replies were generally that my parents should have taught me those things, or that I just need to "figure it out" myself rather than relying on instruction. Surely it would be helpful to actually teach these things, to help out the more dense members of the class (such as myself).

That said, I'm starting my second year of uni soon, and I still don't know what kind of job I would like to do.
#32
I've been thinking this way for a very long time. Oddly enough, my parents don't really agree with my mindset...go figure
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#33
Quote by levi.lydat
If the kids can't feed their interest's and curiosity at school they will just start smoking pot.


Maybe the school should start a club about it?
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#34
Quote by sashki
I still don't know what kind of job I would like to do.

None of the above.

People need professions. Who do you know that's a Baker or a Tailor or a Blacksmith?

I picked Dentist because it's a profession. It's one of the few "jobs" left that still provides a basic service to a human being and you get paid for that service. A Root Canal costs x amount of dollars.

Something about the nature of the profession prevented it from getting sucked into the GRID like practically every other service you can pay for.

That said, corporate dentistry is growing, and soon it will be just another "job."

Jobs suck. Everybody hates them and they are good for nothing.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#35
Our schools should be teaching Logic and Critical Thinking(questioning everything, and asking the best questions)
This is why I don't like arguing on the internet.
Quote by damian_91
If only you could back that statement up.
Quote by Zombee
Wolfgang's Philadelphia Study. Look it up yourself.
Quote by damian_91
No need to, absurd generalizations aren't my thing.
#36
I'm fine with math and basic language skills.

If anything has gone psycho-Oprah-Hippie, it's math and language.

"Oh, gotta teach 'em about Columbus!! Gotta teach 'em to be positive and fake a smile all the time and tell everyone they love Jesus!"

But ask a modern teenager to make change?

Or SPELL?!

"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#37
Quote by Bubonic Chronic
None of the above.

People need professions. Who do you know that's a Baker or a Tailor or a Blacksmith?

I picked Dentist because it's a profession. It's one of the few "jobs" left that still provides a basic service to a human being and you get paid for that service. A Root Canal costs x amount of dollars.

Something about the nature of the profession prevented it from getting sucked into the GRID like practically every other service you can pay for.

That said, corporate dentistry is growing, and soon it will be just another "job."

Jobs suck. Everybody hates them and they are good for nothing.

Some people have found jobs that they enjoy doing. I think that's more important than a job with a good pay. Unfortunately, I can't think of any job that I would really enjoy. I don't know where my life is going. I'll do my best to get my degree and see if that helps me go anywhere from there.

Love or hate jobs, you gotta have one in order not to starve. Might as well do something you enjoy, if there is such a thing.

I'm probably stating the obvious here.
#38
Quote by sashki
Love or hate jobs, you gotta have one in order not to starve. Might as well do something you enjoy, if there is such a thing.

That's what I'm saying, in a nutshell.

There are two problems with at least the American Education system with regards to vocations:

A) They tell you that you can be "whatever you want" your whole stinking life.

Technically you can, but you can also win the lottery and get struck by lightning.


B) Doing "what you want" is not as simple as "playing guitar and being famous and meeting my adoring fans to sign autographs backstage."

Even if you realize that dream, you're going to find that life is still full of harsh realities that the education system failed to tell you about.


So by seeking a profession as opposed to a job I am getting into a field where I can see that what I am doing is making someone's life improve in some way. They show up in pain and leave in less pain, that sort of thing is satisfying.

Even mowing the lawn is satisfying in that the lawn is mowed when you're finished.

The difference with "jobs" as opposed to professions is that in a "job" you never really get anywhere. You just work and work and work and work, and the affects of your actions are abstract, and the feedback you receive is either negative, "You're doing a terrible job, we're going to fire you!" or again abstract and stupid, "Let's all pat ourselves on the back because everyone is ALWAYS doing a wonderful job ALL THE TIME, Yay!!"



The Office is funny because it's a very accurate portrayal of a "job" in modern society.

When I grew up, people with Professions were considered the underclass. "Real" people had "jobs," and their corporations would pay their benefits and they'd work 9-5 in an office and save for retirement.

But that system straight-up broke. It's gone.

Now I look at Auto Mechanics, Landscapers, Plumbers, Janitors, and Dish Washers with a sense of jealousy.

At least someone who cleans bathrooms or washes dishes actually sees that the work they are doing is accomplishing something. At least they know that what they do is necessary and worthwhile.

Trades are the way to go, and if you've got the brains and whatever else it takes to get into the Health Care Trades, then do it.

Health Care is no different than Plumbing, only you get more respect and you get paid more.

Same basic idea, though: show up, do the work, see results, get paid, go home.

That's what I want, and really that's what everyone wants. I used to bag groceries and was relatively happy doing it. I've made dentures and had a blast.

The familiar system of the White Collar "job" where some company pays you what your worth to do something for them is dead. That system is not profitable, so it's no longer sustainable.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#39
i feel that in some horribly convoluted, roundabout way, high school education has helped us all, regardless of how crappy your individual experience was. still, horribly convoluted and roundabout though.
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Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

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