#1
Hey UGers,
I recently had a full setup on my strat and the tech adjusted the bridge to float with the trem springs set to match the tension of the strings.. I don't really like the bridge to float so if i adjust the trem claw to pull the bridge flush with the body then does that mean that the tension of the springs still need to match the tension of the strings ? (trem springs tighter on treble side than bass side)

thanx,
mike
Last edited by striker327 at Aug 18, 2010,
#2
it doesnt necessarily have to match. you can tighten the springs if you prefer a stiffer trem feel, but ive heard that tightening them too tight can cause the bridge to push against the guitar body so hard that it could damage the finish or even the wood if its something soft like basswood.


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#4
cool thanx'

@ filtersweep: not block it just so you can only lower the pitch with the whammy bar (bridge flush against the body)
#6
Floating a vintage type Strat trem is a bad idea IMO. I run mine with 5 springs and sitting on the body.
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#7
The cool thing about leaving your trem floating on a vintage style trem is that you'll never have to adjust the truss rod, the spring tension matches the string and neck tension so everything balances out. So this means you can tune randomly and put any gauge of strings on your guitar( then doing a trem set up so it stays floating) without having to adjust the truss rod every time.

Yeah, you can crank down the springs to make it a hard tail, most people just end up putting a piece of wood in there to prevent it from moving. The back fire of this is you lose the advantage I described above, you can't randomly go from tuning to tuning and heavy gauge strings to light gauge stings unless you do a set up on the guitar.

The only way you can really damage the finish of the guitar by cranking it down to hard if it's a full floating 2 point trem, which I doubt, Wilkinson's are 2 point full floating, most strat trems are either 6 screw or 2 screw hard mount.
#8
Quote by yellowv
Floating a vintage type Strat trem is a bad idea IMO. I run mine with 5 springs and sitting on the body.

Me and Clapton do, too. (Hey, how often can I include me and Clapton in the same sentence? ) Anyway, I had no tuning issues with it floating, but I really lost tone & sustain. Wasn't worth the trade off to me.

Quote by ethan_hanus
The cool thing about leaving your trem floating on a vintage style trem is that you'll never have to adjust the truss rod, the spring tension matches the string and neck tension so everything balances out. So this means you can tune randomly and put any gauge of strings on your guitar( then doing a trem set up so it stays floating) without having to adjust the truss rod every time.

If you've changed string tension enough to require a trem adjustment over it, then there is a very good chance you'll need to adjust the TR as well. Tightening the trem spring does nothing to counteract the string tension vs. relief.
Last edited by Ratraisin at Aug 18, 2010,
#9
Quote by ethan_hanus
The cool thing about leaving your trem floating on a vintage style trem is that you'll never have to adjust the truss rod, the spring tension matches the string and neck tension so everything balances out. So this means you can tune randomly and put any gauge of strings on your guitar( then doing a trem set up so it stays floating) without having to adjust the truss rod every time.


WTF. A guitar's neck has no clue if the bridge is floating or not. All it knows is the string tension. This tension will be equal for a given set of strings whether the trem is floating or flush mounted. If you go up or down with gauge and/or tuning the resulting string tension will change. If a truss adjustment is required has absoluted ZERO to do with whether the bridge is floating or not.

In reply to the OP, if you flush mount the trem you will also need to raise the saddles in order to maintain it's current action. Ideally you want the spring tension just a hair beyond the tension required for it to be level. This way it's just barely getting pulled to the body and the effort to use the trim will be minimal. On vintage trems I like to screw only the outside screws all the way down and leave the other 4 about a 1/16" from the baseplate. This allows the trem to move a bit more smoothly...even Fender recommends doing so.
#10
Quote by Ratraisin
Me and Clapton do, too.

no his is blocked. physically, with a block of wood, that has an actual fender part number. i've opened blackies and antiguas, recently. (the CS 100 antiguas released a couple years ago for his rehab clinic, not the 1979 standards).
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#11
I find it to be better to use 5 springs than blocking. Then you can still use the trem a bit and keep the tuning stability. I have my Strat set up that way with a Tusq nut and Schaller lockers and tuning stability is great, as is sustain.
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#12
Quote by webwarmiller
WTF. A guitar's neck has no clue if the bridge is floating or not. All it knows is the string tension. This tension will be equal for a given set of strings whether the trem is floating or flush mounted. If you go up or down with gauge and/or tuning the resulting string tension will change. If a truss adjustment is required has absoluted ZERO to do with whether the bridge is floating or not.

In reply to the OP, if you flush mount the trem you will also need to raise the saddles in order to maintain it's current action. Ideally you want the spring tension just a hair beyond the tension required for it to be level. This way it's just barely getting pulled to the body and the effort to use the trim will be minimal. On vintage trems I like to screw only the outside screws all the way down and leave the other 4 about a 1/16" from the baseplate. This allows the trem to move a bit more smoothly...even Fender recommends doing so.



Tell that to my Strat, it would like to disprove you, and every other Strat I've ever seen, or used. I've been doing it this way for 4 years, never had a problem, I have pretty low action, no fret buzz, I haven't touched the truss rod since I bought it and had it professionally set up for .010's, but I've gone from E standard straight to Drop B, left it there for 2 months, and tuned right back up the E standard no problem, all I did was adjust the trem to compensate.

Think about it for a second, you have 3 acting forces on the neck, the strings, the springs acting on the strings, and the truss rod. All the truss rod does is determine how much spring the neck will have, so it doesn't snap, but applies an opposite force on the strings. The springs in the trem cavity, all they are doing is applying an opposite force on the strings. So you have two opposite forces on the strings on each end stretching them. Now the strings are only going to stretch a certain distance per ftlb for tension. So if you use the trem to adjust the amount of tension on the neck, you can easily never have to adjust the truss rod. The flatter the trem is to the body, the more tension on the neck, the farther the trem is from the body, the less tension on the neck.
#13
Quote by ethan_hanus
Tell that to my Strat, it would like to disprove you, and every other Strat I've ever seen, or used. I've been doing it this way for 4 years, never had a problem, I have pretty low action, no fret buzz, I haven't touched the truss rod since I bought it and had it professionally set up for .010's, but I've gone from E standard straight to Drop B, left it there for 2 months, and tuned right back up the E standard no problem, all I did was adjust the trem to compensate.


Might very well be the case, but it has ZERO to do with the trem floating or not. If you had those trems decked the results would be the same. You've got some nice stiff necks that simply don't move that much.

Quote by ethan_hanus
Think about it for a second, you have 3 acting forces on the neck, the strings, the springs acting on the strings, and the truss rod. All the truss rod does is determine how much spring the neck will have, so it doesn't snap, but applies an opposite force on the strings. The springs in the trem cavity, all they are doing is applying an opposite force on the strings. So you have two opposite forces on the strings on each end stretching them. Now the strings are only going to stretch a certain distance per ftlb for tension. So if you use the trem to adjust the amount of tension on the neck, you can easily never have to adjust the truss rod. The flatter the trem is to the body, the more tension on the neck, the farther the trem is from the body, the less tension on the neck.


That is completely false reasoning. In order for a string of a given mass to resonate at the proper frequency for a given length it must have a specific tension. Take a set of 10's and the sum of their tensions will have the exact same amount of pull on the neck regardless of the trem floating or not. Change to a set of 9's and they will pull less on the neck than the 10's. With a floating trem you'll loosen the claw to equal the reduce string tension in order for the bridge to float properly. With a decked trem you'll just tune to pitch. The end result is the SAME exact force on the neck applied by strings.....floating or not.
#14
Quote by ethan_hanus
words
Utter bollocks. Even with a double-expanding truss rod you will have to adjust the truss rod every now and then simply because of changes in the environment if nothing else. Any change in string gauge, tuning or action will also require truss rod adjustment to attain proper neck relief. There is no exception to this and even if there was (it could be argued that ply construction, quarter-sawn maple neck with a particualrly thick finish and a double-expanding truss rod would be immune to the seasonal changes), it certainly would have nothing to do with whether the bridge was floating or not. Such a claim doesn't make even the smallest shred of sense.
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#15
Quote by MrFlibble
Utter bollocks. Even with a double-expanding truss rod you will have to adjust the truss rod every now and then simply because of changes in the environment if nothing else. Any change in string gauge, tuning or action will also require truss rod adjustment to attain proper neck relief. There is no exception to this and even if there was (it could be argued that ply construction, quarter-sawn maple neck with a particualrly thick finish and a double-expanding truss rod would be immune to the seasonal changes), it certainly would have nothing to do with whether the bridge was floating or not. Such a claim doesn't make even the smallest shred of sense.


It's a Squier dammit, the ultimate piece of shit, and proves everything you said wrong, it's alder body with a maple neck, I got lucky and got a good one.

Every other Strat I've done a set up on doing it that way was and has been perfectly fine, I never touch the truss rod once it's been set up for .010 gauge strings, as long as you never go over .012's, you wont have to touch it.

Try it for yourself if you don't believe me. You can't say bollocks unless you 've done it.
#16
Quote by ethan_hanus

Every other Strat I've done a set up on doing it that way was and has been perfectly fine, I never touch the truss rod once it's been set up for .010 gauge strings, as long as you never go over .012's, you wont have to touch it.

Try it for yourself if you don't believe me. You can't say bollocks unless you 've done it.


That's because the neck can be playable within a range of relief. Furthermore, depending on the string guage and/or tuning the ideal amount of relief for that particular setup can differ from another. If I switch from 9's to 10's the relief might only change from say .25mm to .30mm, but there is still a change. Will I need to adjust the relief, maybe. With 10's it might play better with a little extra. Still, the fact remains that having the bridge floating or not has ZERO effect on any of this whatsoever.

People are always asking, "If I do this or that will I need to adjust my truss?". The answer is ALWAYS "maybe". They need to perform whatever it is they want to do and then check the relief AND play test the guitar to see if it needs adjusting.
#17
Quote by MrFlibble
Utter bollocks. Even with a double-expanding truss rod you will have to adjust the truss rod every now and then simply because of changes in the environment if nothing else. Any change in string gauge, tuning or action will also require truss rod adjustment to attain proper neck relief. There is no exception to this and even if there was (it could be argued that ply construction, quarter-sawn maple neck with a particualrly thick finish and a double-expanding truss rod would be immune to the seasonal changes), it certainly would have nothing to do with whether the bridge was floating or not. Such a claim doesn't make even the smallest shred of sense.


+1. I don’t ever mess with the rest of the setup of my Strat, but I still have to tweak the truss rod if the temperature or humidity changes rapidly.
#18
Quote by gregs1020
no his is blocked. physically, with a block of wood, that has an actual fender part number. i've opened blackies and antiguas, recently. (the CS 100 antiguas released a couple years ago for his rehab clinic, not the 1979 standards).

5 springs, though right? I've seen pictures of it. I saw 5 springs, but never noticed a block. It might not have been visible in the pic.
#19
Quote by Ratraisin
5 springs, though right? I've seen pictures of it. I saw 5 springs, but never noticed a block. It might not have been visible in the pic.


now that i'm not sure of honestly. i don't remember.
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