#1
OK, So I decided to drive myself insane today. My local store had a nice used 30 band EQ I couldn't pass up

I have tried an EQ in the loop before, but only a 7 band cheapy (Dano Fish & Chips). My tone is pretty darn good, but every now and then I catch glimpses of something better. I know there's better stuff locked up in there!

The stock EQ knobs (NOT active) don't seem to have a HUGE range, and only having low mid, treb and pres is too limiting.

SO, before I go ABSOLUTLY insane, I'd like a bit of advice from those who know on the following subjects/ideas mis/conceptions.

1) Being that the stock EQ is passive, would it be best to dime them all so they aren't cutting anything out. Then use the EQ in the loop to cut what needs cutting. Being passive, I am assuming all they really do is cut, not boost. As such I'm thinking it's better to use the EQ to cut what IS there, instead of trying to boost what is NOT there (due to the stock EQ cutting it) Logical?

2)View this: http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0400/OctaveEQ.htm
Agree? Disagree? anything to add?

3) I also have a BBE Sonic maximizer. I will NOT be using it while dialing in tone on the EQ. The boosts available on the BBE will ONLY be used to compensate for low volume play to compensate for the "Fletcher Munson Effect" This will allow me to set the EQ to where it sounds best for playing a gig, while allowing it to sound good at low (bedroom) levels. Logical? (The BBE may get turned on for gigs, but it's EQ will most likely be set to flat for that).

4) Any other advice? Tips? Settings? For reference, I am using a Bugera 6262, into a Peavey cab with Eminence Swamp Thangs, and Wizards. Both guitars I use are Mahogany with Duncan Performer "Detonators" (less muddy Invaders) I play anything from old school metallica (E standard) to more modern stuff (D standard to drop C) Mainly metal of one type or another (rarely using cleans)

Thanx in advance!!!
Ibanez RGR421EXFM, Michael Kelley Vex NV, Ovation Celebrity. Carvin V3
Peavey 412M w/Eminence Wizards & Swamp Thangs, Rocktron Hush Super C, Furman PL-8C,15 band EQ, Boosta grande, ISP Decimator, Dano EQ, Ibanez TBX 150,TC Elec Polytune
#2
1) No. EQ to what you think sounds good first, and then tweak with the 30 bander.

2) Dunno.

3) Dunno, not a fan of the BBE Sonic Max. The EQ can do what the Sonic Max can do, except better, and with less of a digitized sound.

4) Dunno.
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#3
Get your sound where you like it with everything EXCEPT the 30 band. Then plop the EQ in and tweak away. I don't think I could live happily if I ever bought a 30 band. I have a hard enough time with my fish/chips :/ Good luck though
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#4
1. no as stated above by others
2. more no than yes
3. sure
4. just do what sounds the best to your ears even if it goes against all our advice
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#5
if you play really loud, you should be cutting freqs rather then boosting

a 3db cut changed to a 6db cut, is 2x the volume decrease(i think?)

so you dont need to dime things unless you want to completly silence a frequency.

a guitar only has a limited range for you to tweak hz/khz for

your ears can sense cuts more easily then boosts.

this is just nonsense i have learned messing with 3 EQs on my boss GT-10. (2 para and 1 graphic)
:|
#7
Quote by Vinson
1) Being that the stock EQ is passive, would it be best to dime them all so they aren't cutting anything out. Then use the EQ in the loop to cut what needs cutting. Being passive, I am assuming all they really do is cut, not boost. As such I'm thinking it's better to use the EQ to cut what IS there, instead of trying to boost what is NOT there (due to the stock EQ cutting it) Logical?
The easiest would be to get the best tone out of the stock EQ, and then tweak it with the 30-band. In general, try to only cut with the 30-band EQ. Helps with the noise.
2)View this: http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0400/OctaveEQ.htm
Agree? Disagree? anything to add?
That looks good. Not much to add I think. Very nice guide.
3) I also have a BBE Sonic maximizer. I will NOT be using it while dialing in tone on the EQ. The boosts available on the BBE will ONLY be used to compensate for low volume play to compensate for the "Fletcher Munson Effect" This will allow me to set the EQ to where it sounds best for playing a gig, while allowing it to sound good at low (bedroom) levels. Logical? (The BBE may get turned on for gigs, but it's EQ will most likely be set to flat for that).
Sounds good.
4) Any other advice? Tips? Settings? For reference, I am using a Bugera 6262, into a Peavey cab with Eminence Swamp Thangs, and Wizards. Both guitars I use are Mahogany with Duncan Performer "Detonators" (less muddy Invaders) I play anything from old school metallica (E standard) to more modern stuff (D standard to drop C) Mainly metal of one type or another (rarely using cleans)
You might've noticed this with your 7-band already, but when you EQ, your ears start to get accustomed to the different sound and it will sound different. It's good to sometimes just go back to not using an EQ and hearing the difference. Sometimes, what will sound good to accustomed ears, won't sound good otherwise.
Quote by Raijouta
3) Dunno, not a fan of the BBE Sonic Max. The EQ can do what the Sonic Max can do, except better, and with less of a digitized sound.
That's simply not true.
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#8
Thanx guys. The reason i went with the 30 band EQ was simple...I had an open space in my rack, and it was a great deal. Do I NEED 30 bands...no. I'm most likely not going to use anything below 50hz, or above 8Khz so at least that will narrow it down a bit.

Thanx for the advice so far... I'll leave my amp EQ where it is, and tweak with the EQ.
Ibanez RGR421EXFM, Michael Kelley Vex NV, Ovation Celebrity. Carvin V3
Peavey 412M w/Eminence Wizards & Swamp Thangs, Rocktron Hush Super C, Furman PL-8C,15 band EQ, Boosta grande, ISP Decimator, Dano EQ, Ibanez TBX 150,TC Elec Polytune
#9
Heres a general rule for EQ's used in studios which works well with guitars


Cut a band to make things sound " better". Boost something to make it sound different. Just do go crazy though changing every band if it doesnt need to be changed
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#10
honestly, having the detailed control a 1/3 8va EQ gives you is a great asset once you feel comfortable using it... not a bad buy, especially if you got it for a steal.

I've always set my amps' EQ how I like them before adjusting my 31-band in the loop. In your case, rather than diming your EQ, I'd say leave them at noon. If you dime them, you'll find yourself doing a lot more cutting than neccissary.

EQing by the 8va is great, and useful in particular situations (like studio work), but I would begin by EQing by the fundamental. That'll show you the key areas to cut/boost, and you can use the guidelines from the link you posted to fine-tune to your taste, much like NR said.

EQing by the fundamental is relatively simple. Let's say the lowest freq you want to push is 100Hz (anything below 100Hz belongs to your bassist). At 200Hz you might also like to boost/cut a little, maybe boost/cut at 400Hz, boost/cut again at 800Hz... seeing the pattern? You'll have to decide which freqs get the boost or the cut, but I can tell you from experience that guitars like 200 and 800Hz, they don't like 400-500Hz, 1.6KHz is a great presence freq, and anywhere around 4KHz is a great place to fill in some rounder highs (not so much the brain piercing ones, but a little bump in the air freqs isn't such a bad idea).

To fill in the space and create a thicker tone I will sometimes, but not always, find another freq not far above the fundamental and apply the same technique to this number (I normally use 100Hz and 125Hz when I do this).

Spare yourself any nasty hard clipping nightmares, cut before you boost. Cut deep with a narrow Q (bandwidth), and boost short with a wide one.

and above all else, trust your ears, even if the numbers say you'd be crazy to do so.
#11
Quote by Kanthras
That's simply not true.


(regarding an EQ's ability to do what a sonic maximizer does)

+1, you are correct sir.
#12
Quote by GrisKy
honestly, having the detailed control a 1/3 8va EQ gives you is a great asset once you feel comfortable using it... not a bad buy, especially if you got it for a steal.

I've always set my amps' EQ how I like them before adjusting my 31-band in the loop. In your case, rather than diming your EQ, I'd say leave them at noon. If you dime them, you'll find yourself doing a lot more cutting than neccissary.

EQing by the 8va is great, and useful in particular situations (like studio work), but I would begin by EQing by the fundamental. That'll show you the key areas to cut/boost, and you can use the guidelines from the link you posted to fine-tune to your taste, much like NR said.

EQing by the fundamental is relatively simple. Let's say the lowest freq you want to push is 100Hz (anything below 100Hz belongs to your bassist). At 200Hz you might also like to boost/cut a little, maybe boost/cut at 400Hz, boost/cut again at 800Hz... seeing the pattern? You'll have to decide which freqs get the boost or the cut, but I can tell you from experience that guitars like 200 and 800Hz, they don't like 400-500Hz, 1.6KHz is a great presence freq, and anywhere around 4KHz is a great place to fill in some rounder highs (not so much the brain piercing ones, but a little bump in the air freqs isn't such a bad idea).

To fill in the space and create a thicker tone I will sometimes, but not always, find another freq not far above the fundamental and apply the same technique to this number (I normally use 100Hz and 125Hz when I do this).

Spare yourself any nasty hard clipping nightmares, cut before you boost. Cut deep with a narrow Q (bandwidth), and boost short with a wide one.

and above all else, trust your ears, even if the numbers say you'd be crazy to do so.


AWESOME advice...just got done doing some messing with it, and found some of the same results. I cut 400hz and 100 hz more than most others as well as some at 1.3Khz. And I did find I liked 200hz with a slight boost, I'll have to play with those between 200-400 and 540-800.

Quote by Raijouta
Dunno, not a fan of the BBE Sonic Max. The EQ can do what the Sonic Max can do, except better, and with less of a digitized sound.

Quote by Kanthras

That's simply not true.

Quote by GrisKy
(regarding an EQ's ability to do what a sonic maximizer does)

+1, you are correct sir.


Attempting to reproduce the effect of the BBE with the EQ did indeed prove fruitless. The BBE simply is NOT an EQ
Ibanez RGR421EXFM, Michael Kelley Vex NV, Ovation Celebrity. Carvin V3
Peavey 412M w/Eminence Wizards & Swamp Thangs, Rocktron Hush Super C, Furman PL-8C,15 band EQ, Boosta grande, ISP Decimator, Dano EQ, Ibanez TBX 150,TC Elec Polytune
Last edited by Vinson at Aug 20, 2010,
#13
Quote by Vinson
Attempting to reproduce the effect of the BBE with the EQ did indeed prove fruitless. The BBE simply is NOT an EQ


Neither is an EQ a sonic maximizer.
#14
I also have a 31 band EQ what I did is set the 31 band EQ to compensate for my speakers response curve. I set the amps 3 band EQ at half way for all three controls. Then adjusted for what I wanted to hear coming out of my rig. As you can see from the pic the curve of my speaker, an Eminence Texas Heat, has the standard fall offs at the high and low ends it also has three other sections that I wished to correct for. The dip at 1.5k, the spike at 2.5k to 4k and the dip at 10k. While this is easily done for one speaker I'll bet it's not so easy with 2 or 4. When I was done with the initial adjustment my EQ sliders looked like an inverse picture of the speaker curve. I then adjusted a few sliders here and there to make up for some things about my pickups I did not like and that smoothed that out a bit. Note that the response curve is the BLACK line and not the gray one. Overall I'd say I'm fairly happy with what the EQ did for the sound of my amp. Also I took a pic of the EQ control setting in case I adjust too far out while messing with it. I can then get it back to a baseline I at least like the sound of.
Attachments:
curve1.jpg
Last edited by sparkeyjames at Aug 20, 2010,
#15
Quote by sparkeyjames
I also have a 31 band EQ what I did is set the 31 band EQ to compensate for my speakers response curve. Then adjusted for what I wanted to hear coming out of my rig. As you can see from the pic the curve of my speaker, an Eminence Texas Heat, has the standard fall offs at the high and low ends it also has three other sections that I wished to correct for. The dip at 1.5k, the spike at 2.5k to 4k and the dip at 10k. While this is easily done for one speaker I'll bet it's not so easy with 2 or 4. When I was done with the initial adjustment my EQ sliders looked like an inverse picture of the speaker curve. I then adjusted a few sliders here and there to make up for some things about my pickups I did not like and that smoothed that out a bit. Note that the response curve is the BLACK line and not the gray one. Overall I'd say I'm fairly happy with what the EQ did for the sound of my amp.


That's a great idea, but you need to keep in mind that those freq responses are impedance dictated, and not only that, the dimensions/materials of the cab play a huge role, as does everything, EVERYTHING, in your signal chain, from your attack style to the material of your pick to the gauge and core of your strings to the density of your guitar to your pickup output to your cable length... it all comes into play. By the time sound comes out of your personal speaker (with your personal equipment infront of it), the actual response you're hearing could be (most likely will be) quite different than the chart you're looking at.
#16
Quote by GrisKy
That's a great idea, but you need to keep in mind that those freq responses are impedance dictated, and not only that, the dimensions/materials of the cab play a huge role, as does everything, EVERYTHING, in your signal chain, from your attack style to the material of your pick to the gauge and core of your strings to the density of your guitar to your pickup output to your cable length... it all comes into play. By the time sound comes out of your personal speaker (with your personal equipment infront of it), the actual response you're hearing could be (most likely will be) quite different than the chart you're looking at.


Notice that I only adjusted for the obvious peaks and dips in the curve. I didn't by any means use the line in the curve as an exact forever thing. It's a baseline and yes I do like what that baseline sounds like. Although it does still need some tweeking albeit of a minor sort. Luckily the 31 band EQ I have has true bypass so if I do need to do something different I can hit a button and it's gone from the path. Once I get to wiring in a foot switch in conjunction with the front panel bypass button that will be easier to do. Also by using the amps controls, initially set at 5, you can boost or inhibit a large segment of signal going to the EQ giving you extra options in sound sculpting.
Last edited by sparkeyjames at Aug 20, 2010,
#17
Quote by GrisKy
Neither is an EQ a sonic maximizer.

Exactly!
Ibanez RGR421EXFM, Michael Kelley Vex NV, Ovation Celebrity. Carvin V3
Peavey 412M w/Eminence Wizards & Swamp Thangs, Rocktron Hush Super C, Furman PL-8C,15 band EQ, Boosta grande, ISP Decimator, Dano EQ, Ibanez TBX 150,TC Elec Polytune