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JAM SAXON
play bass with a silent b
Join date: Dec 2009
261 IQ
#1
just got one! and it is a beutiful amp. just posting to say that basically any bad things you hear are lies.
Quote by Stugg334
I just started writing a metal solo, and so far I have:

*Hit Lead Button On Mesa*
*Spread legs to width of 160cm*
*Perform facial expression akin to that of having a woodpecker chip away at your rectum*
*Practice scales*


My greencaster =)
Kanthras
Boogerman
Join date: Aug 2007
905 IQ
#2
Quote by JAM SAXON
just posting to say that basically any bad things you hear are lies.
Okay. How's the crunch? And the distortion?

I have one too and you have to recognize its faults. Then start modding the **** out of it.
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Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
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#3
Quote by Kanthras
I have one too and you have to recognize its faults. Then start modding the **** out of it.

Did you upgrade the power transformer when you added a valve? Particularly the heater cct.
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Kanthras
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#4
Quote by Cathbard
Did you upgrade the power transformer when you added a valve? Particularly the heater cct.
Nah, but the heater voltage is still above 6 volts. The transformer is pretty oversized I think.

It doesn't work anymore, though. The problem is that the circuit board I used for the extra preamp circuitry has become conductive. For some reason, it has lots of metallic dust ingrained in it.
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Cathbard
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#5
There's no rectification on the heater so it's voltage wouldn't really drop off until it actually died. How hot it gets physically is a better guide.
Go the whole hog. Make a turret board and replace the whole guts, rip out their cct board as well. If you like to mod, a turret boards is invaluable. You can point to point most of it anyway. The cct for that is almost identical to a Champ and I p2p'd everything except the filter caps.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!! (In a Rob Schneider voice)
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tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
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#6
Quote by JAM SAXON
any bad things you hear are lies.

There's plenty of bad things that are true about the Valve Junior. Don't make dumb blanket statements, and especially don't make a thread just to post them. I have a VJ and love it, but it has plenty of shortcomings.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
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BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Kanthras
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#7
Quote by Cathbard
There's no rectification on the heater so it's voltage wouldn't really drop off until it actually died. How hot it gets physically is a better guide.
I have checked that, it doesn't even get warm. I'd say volume wise, it's no less than half the size of the transformer in my Bugera. So it should be fine.

Go the whole hog. Make a turret board and replace the whole guts, rip out their cct board as well. If you like to mod, a turret boards is invaluable. You can point to point most of it anyway. The cct for that is almost identical to a Champ and I p2p'd everything except the filter caps.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!! (In a Rob Schneider voice)


That's a really good idea, though. I'd love to do that someday. I've done a lot of work on the PCB as well, and it's starting to lift traces. Sucks having to take everything out to do some soldering as well. I'll need to find a place for turret boards in Holland, though. That might not be easy.

Either way, it IS going to get VERY tight with a turret board...

edit: Just found an online shop for turret boards. That was easier than I thought...

edit2: And it's gonna be a bitch to re-use components, as they're all clipped short. Damn.
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- Jackson JS30
- TS9

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Last edited by Kanthras at Aug 24, 2010,
Cathbard
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#8
Sounds like the tranny had room to spare ampwise. That's handy. If you do notice it starts to get too hot you can just add another transformer just for that valve. At 6V parallel connection a 12AX7 only pulls 300mA for the heaters so it wouldn't be a very big tranny.

Making your own turret boards is really easy. The tool to do it only costs a few bucks. I got mine along with all the turrets and fibreglass board off ebay. If you do it yourself you can tailor it to fit. If you do a lot of it p2p you will only need a tiny board.
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fly135
Cheap Gear Enthusiast
Join date: Jul 2007
831 IQ
#9
Quote by Cathbard
There's no rectification on the heater
I think that's only the early models.

The Vjr is a fine amp for a 5 watter if you add pedals. The amp doesn't have much character on it's own and is a bit dark. But with pedals you can make it sing.
beckyjc
Replace the fuse mann.
Join date: Oct 2005
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#10
Quote by Kanthras
I have checked that, it doesn't even get warm. I'd say volume wise, it's no less than half the size of the transformer in my Bugera. So it should be fine.



That's a really good idea, though. I'd love to do that someday. I've done a lot of work on the PCB as well, and it's starting to lift traces. Sucks having to take everything out to do some soldering as well. I'll need to find a place for turret boards in Holland, though. That might not be easy.

Either way, it IS going to get VERY tight with a turret board...

edit: Just found an online shop for turret boards. That was easier than I thought...

edit2: And it's gonna be a bitch to re-use components, as they're all clipped short. Damn.


Try musikding.de

They have everything. In the world. IN THE WORLD.

Anyway, im betting you could replace all the components and get a turret for it for less than 30€
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
2,967 IQ
#11
Quote by tubetime86
There's plenty of bad things that are true about the Valve Junior. Don't make dumb blanket statements, and especially don't make a thread just to post them. I have a VJ and love it, but it has plenty of shortcomings.


+1

certainly the older v2 that i have.
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Cathbard
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#12
Quote by fly135
I think that's only the early models.

The Vjr is a fine amp for a 5 watter if you add pedals. The amp doesn't have much character on it's own and is a bit dark. But with pedals you can make it sing.

They have an AC heater circuit, converting it to DC is a popular mod. Kanthras was measuring and connecting his, care to confirm/refute my statement, Kanthras? Is the heater circuit directly off the transformer or does it go through a rectifier?
Hardly anything but boutique amps use DC heater circuits and then they crow about it.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 24, 2010,
fly135
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#13
IIRC the V2 design has DC heaters. This was bandied about as common knowledge when it came out.
Dave_Mc
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#14
yeah i think so
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Ratraisin
Yum Yum!
Join date: Jun 2010
177 IQ
#16
Quote by JAM SAXON
just got one! and it is a beutiful amp. just posting to say that basically any bad things you hear are lies.

Awesome, dude. Congrats! Glad to hear you are happy and enthusiastic about your purchase. It's refreshing!
Water which is too pure has no fish - Ts'ai Ken T'an
tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
1,633 IQ
#17
Quote by Roc8995
The one I modded for Dan was a V3 and had DC heaters. My friend's V1 did not.

Damn you've known that the whole time? I've been trying to figure out what version that is for months.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Kanthras
Boogerman
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#18
Quote by Cathbard
They have an AC heater circuit, converting it to DC is a popular mod. Kanthras was measuring and connecting his, care to confirm/refute my statement, Kanthras? Is the heater circuit directly off the transformer or does it go through a rectifier?
Hardly anything but boutique amps use DC heater circuits and then they crow about it.
Yeah, they had AC in the first version. Mine has DC (V3).

I replaced the shitty conductive perfboard I used with another shitty perfboard that at least doesn't conduct. Works great now. The sound it makes can be best described as "fuzz from hell".

I still need to make some adjustments, though. If I hit the low string hard (drop A), it goes into blocking distortion or something. Can't be a good sign.

Quote by beckyjc
Try musikding.de

They have everything. In the world. IN THE WORLD.

Anyway, im betting you could replace all the components and get a turret for it for less than 30€
Looks like a nice place to satisfy my electronic needs, thanks! Too bad they don't have turretboards.
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Last edited by Kanthras at Aug 24, 2010,
Cathbard
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#19
Well there ya go. Good to learn something new. It is a good idea.
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#20
Quote by Cathbard
Well there ya go. Good to learn something new. It is a good idea.
Hehe, gonna see if I can get some turret board, anyway. Swapping out components is a massive PITA now and it definitely needs some tweaking.

That site becky suggested is really nice. TS-808 kits for 22,50 Euro? GAS comin' right up...

These look pretty nice for a turret board replacement: http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p994_Terminal-Strip-1x30.html

Two rows of those things, nice and compact. Might go for that instead.
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ConfederateAxe
Thread Assassin
Join date: Nov 2008
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#21
Quote by Kanthras
I still need to make some adjustments, though. If I hit the low string hard (drop A), it goes into blocking distortion or something. Can't be a good sign.


Missing a DC Coupling path between stages, maybe?

What are the value of your grid resistors and coupling caps there?
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Aug 24, 2010,
beckyjc
Replace the fuse mann.
Join date: Oct 2005
1,306 IQ
#22
Quote by Kanthras
Hehe, gonna see if I can get some turret board, anyway. Swapping out components is a massive PITA now and it definitely needs some tweaking.

That site becky suggested is really nice. TS-808 kits for 22,50 Euro? GAS comin' right up...

These look pretty nice for a turret board replacement: http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p994_Terminal-Strip-1x30.html

Two rows of those things, nice and compact. Might go for that instead.



http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1002_Terminal-board-2x10-50mm.html

Cant you just use that, bend the lugs up, itd practically be the same thing as turret.

Yeah the kits are great value for money. I emailed them and they said theyd consider a meathead kit for me.

Next on the list is a ZenDrive, Muff and Delay kit they said. Im interested in a zendrive defo. Something a bit different flavoured from my SK. Theres a similar site that does clones of the Klon for cheap too.
Cathbard
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#23
I was looking at the schematic for V1 and there seems to be a lot of redundant resistors between the 2 triodes. The two resistors to the right of the .02uF cap could be removed leaving the cap connected straight to the pot. Can't see any value in them. Of course he has an extra bottle as well.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 24, 2010,
Kanthras
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#24
Quote by ConfederateAxe
Missing a DC Coupling path between stages, maybe?

What are the value of your grid resistors and coupling caps there?

Pretty sure I got the couplings right. I'll go over them again tomorrow.

Coupling caps are all .022 uF

Off the top of my head, the grid resistors are, in order from stage 1 to 4: 68k, not sure (haven't changed this one), 470k, 220k

edit: Hmmm, on further thought.. I don't think the 2nd stage has a grid resistor... There's R6/R7 in front of it, though. Which are 470k/1M

Quote by beckyjc
Cant you just use that, bend the lugs up, itd practically be the same thing as turret.
That's basically the one I linked before, except two in a row.

Yeah the kits are great value for money. I emailed them and they said theyd consider a meathead kit for me.

Next on the list is a ZenDrive, Muff and Delay kit they said. Im interested in a zendrive defo. Something a bit different flavoured from my SK. Theres a similar site that does clones of the Klon for cheap too.
Definitely gotta keep an eye on this site.
Quote by Cathbard
I was looking at the schematic for V1 and there seems to be a lot of redundant resistors between the 2 triodes. All those resistors to the right of your normal .02uF could be removed leaving just the pot. Can't see any value in them. Of course he has an extra bottle as well.

I've modded almost every single component in the preamp. I believe I jumpered R6, but found that the following stage OD'd too hard, so I just lowered it to 470k. The pot is moved to behind the 2nd stage, before the extra tube. I kept R7 for the OD'ing on OD reasons, to shunt a bit of signal to ground.

I'll see if I can work up a nice schematic tomorrow, because listing all the changes like this is confusing as hell.

Anyone know a nice (free? ) program for schematics?

How's this for a thread hijack, huh?
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Last edited by Kanthras at Aug 24, 2010,
ConfederateAxe
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#25
Quote by Kanthras
Pretty sure I got the couplings right. I'll go over them again tomorrow.

Coupling caps are all .022 uF

Off the top of my head, the grid resistors are, in order from stage 1 to 4: 68k, not sure (haven't changed this one), 470k, 220k
That's basically the one I linked before, except two in a row.

Definitely gotta keep an eye on this site.

Hmmm, on further thought.. I don't think the 2nd stage has a grid resistor... There's R6/R7 in front of it, though. Which are 470k/1M


What about your cathode bypass? Maybe adjust the value? Sounds like perhaps too much bass frequency?

EDIT: I'm willing to bet that's your issue. Sounds like the 2nd stage grid is being driven slightly positive.
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Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Aug 24, 2010,
Cathbard
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#26
Yeah, with the extra valve I can see, which is why I mentioned it, but if I was just modding one without that much surgery they'd be the first things to go.
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#27
Quote by ConfederateAxe
What about your cathode bypass? Maybe adjust the value? Sounds like perhaps too much bass frequency?

All cathode bypasses are .47 uF. Except the third stage which has none, that's a cold clipping stage with a 39k cathode resistor (5150/SLO inspired ). The first stage used to have a bypass that was two .47s uF in parallel, and it definitely helped when I removed one.
Quote by ConfederateAxe
EDIT: I'm willing to bet that's your issue. Sounds like the 2nd stage grid is being driven slightly positive.
Alright, thanks for the suggestion. I'm gonna look into it tomorrow.
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Kanthras
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#28
Oh crap, I think I might've just found out why it sounds so dodgey at times. Take a look at the schematic and find R15, it's the grid resistor of the power tube. I removed that one and replaced it with a pot.

Considering this, could it be that the blocking distortion I'm hearing is coming from the power tube?
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Cathbard
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#29
You could get away with replacing R5 with a pot instead and restore R15 (you could even bypass it probably). Too tired to think about frequency response but if you want to control the input of the EL84, R5 is your guy, take the wiper to the grid (via R15 if you like, I doubt you'll need it).
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 24, 2010,
Kanthras
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#30
Quote by Cathbard
You could get away with replacing R5 with a pot instead and restore R15 (you could even bypass it probably). Too tired to think about frequency response but if you want to control the input of the EL84, R5 is your guy, take the wiper to the grid (via R15 if you like, I doubt you'll need it).

Alright, thanks. I thought the grid resistors were more important for power tubes? Anyway, looks like I've got a lot of stuff to do tomorrow..

I'm thinking of just using a new chassis, kinda tired of working in that cramped little box.
I've got an old crappy SS that looks perfect for donorship...
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Cathbard
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#31
Yeah it's not a very conventional way to do it but you should get away with it, esp on an EL84. If any valve can deal with it, it's an EL84. Having the master volume between the last two preamp stages is more conventional on a single ended amp. On an A/B you do it right before the PI.

Edit: What you're probably thinking about is biasing via the grid. No, look at the circuit, there's no DC feed to the grid of the EL84 (it's blocked by C2) so it can't be doing the fixed bias thing. The biasing is done by the cathode resistor. You should get away with a pot on the grid ok in this situation.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 24, 2010,
Kanthras
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#32
Couldn't resist making a schematic today.

Sorry it's a bit blurry, UG was being anal about resolution, but it should be readable (zooming in helps).
I'm pretty sure this is an exact representation of the current preamp circuit, barring any sleepyhead-induced mistakes.

I've already given most of the info in there in text form, but I'm guessing this should be easier on the eyes and mind to interpret. If you have any suggestions to improve it, that would be awesome.



And keep on hijacking!

edit: UG does some pretty brutal resizing on uploads...

Here's the original:
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Last edited by Kanthras at Aug 24, 2010,
Cathbard
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#33
Stick to 100k plate resistors and change that last stage to what I suggested - like you've got on Vol1 pretty much. I wouldn't have added all those 1M grid leak resistors but I guess they can't do any harm.

PS: been playing around with 18W Marshall circuits lately so I'm getting hooked on simplicity. They make a VJ's front end look like Colossus. It's like they wanted to cut down on components - even resistors
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 24, 2010,
bubb_tubbs
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#34
Quote by Kanthras
Okay. How's the crunch? And the distortion?

I have one too and you have to recognize its faults. Then start modding the **** out of it.

You're not turning it up enough. (unless you're trying to get the br00tz)
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
Cathbard
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#35
Quote by bubb_tubbs
You're not turning it up enough. (unless you're trying to get the br00tz)

Yeah but you see? He committed sacrilege and SL-X'ed his Valve Junior.
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#36
That's exactly what I'm doing!

I want my VJ to do the br00tz.

And the original's crunch sucked either way, even if you turned it up. Muddy, farty, not nice.

Also, why 100k plate resistors? That means less br00tz.
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Last edited by Kanthras at Aug 24, 2010,
bubb_tubbs
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#37
^ That has more to do with the EL84 power section combined with a dark voicing.

They are pretty mushy in the low end.

But why buy a 5W amp to do metal with? Teh cheepz?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
Kanthras
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#38
Quote by bubb_tubbs
^ That has more to do with the EL84 power section combined with a dark voicing.

They are pretty mushy in the low end.

But why buy a 5W amp to do metal with? Teh cheepz?
Teh lulz more like. I've already got a nice amp for all my serious tonal needs. Now I'm just screwing around with my old amp.

Ahh, I really need to go sleep. I'm out.
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Last edited by Kanthras at Aug 24, 2010,
Cathbard
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#39
Move the gain control to the front of the second triode and your master volume in front of the fourth triode. I'd make the third triode's cathode circuit the same as the other three. Keep it simple.
You could put a 1M trimpot in for triode 3's grid leak resistor to tune it's gain level too. Then you'll have a control for each stage, even if one of those requires a screwdriver.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 24, 2010,
Kanthras
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#40
Quote by Cathbard
Move the gain control to the front of the second triode and your master volume in front of the fourth triode.
I'm definitely doing that, makes more sense.
I'd make the third triode's cathode circuit the same as the other three. Keep it simple.
Hehe, sorry. I'm not a minimalist. I want that cold clipping stage in there.
You could put a 1M trimpot in for triode 3's grid leak resistor to tune it's gain level too. Then you'll have a control for each stage, even if one of those requires a screwdriver.
Good idea. I had an extra pot in there doing nothing anyway, I'll wire it up to do just that.

Anyway, I got a lot of other stuff to do today. Not sure I'll have time for modding. Gotta wait for new stuff to arrive anyway.
Gear:
- Bugera 333
- VJ & VJ cab
- Jackson JS30
- TS9

Bugera Users Militia. We are horrible people. With a sprinkler fetish.
~ BUM: For all things extinguishing

Rackmount Tube Amp Project <<< Updates!