#1
If you leave out an interval, would it be a 7th chord still?
For example, in "It's Not Safe To Swim Today" (By veil of Maya) there's the chord:
-
-6
-9
-7
-8
-
So from the top note, it has the 1, 3 and 7, without the 5th (1,3,7,1), is it still a major 7?

Same with this chord i encountered
-
-
-12
-9
-10
-8
This one is the same except instead of dropping the 5, it drops the 3 (1,5,7,5)

So are these still major seventh? If not, how would i go about figuring out what they are?
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Last edited by anonymous564 at Aug 25, 2010,
#2
It would generally be safe to consider them maj7 chords, yes (particularly the first one).
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#3
they still are. they just ommited the 5th. You can tell a maj7th by finding Root, Maj3rd, 5th, and major 7th. if the 7th is a whole step lower than the root, and its still major (maj3rd) than its a Dom7th. which is still major. such as the first chord: Fmaj7. if it were an Eb, it would be a F7.
#5
Would the 1575 be like, sus7 than? Lol sorry i'm not great with this stuff
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#6
Quote by anonymous564
Would the 1575 be like, sus7 than? Lol sorry i'm not great with this stuff

No such thing as a Sus7, you can only have a sus2 or sus4. If you omit the third, its just a 1 5 7, say in C, thatd be a C G and B. If you'd like, I guess you could call it a Cmaj7 no third, although its not proper seeing as it CAN be a minMaj7. However, context can normally help us in these situations.
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#7
Quote by theguitarplayin
p.s 1, 5, 7, 5 is a very intersting construct, considering it gives little notation of whether its major or not, except for that maj 7th. typically ommiting the 3rd would be a sus chord but sus chords usually replace 3rd with 2nds or 4th such as Dsus2


It does give indication that its a major 7th, and here is why...

Because the ONLY 7th that us a major seventh, is a Major chord. Both Minor chords and Dominant chords use a b7

And diminished uses bb7ths.

Best,

Sean
#8
Quote by Sean0913
It does give indication that its a major 7th, and here is why...

Because the ONLY 7th that us a major seventh, is a Major chord. Both Minor chords and Dominant chords use a b7

And diminished uses bb7ths.

Best,

Sean

you forgot the minMaj7 chord, which occurs on the tonic of the harmonic and melodic minor scales, so the maj7th occurs in more than just the Maj7 chord. Its rarely used, but should still be accounted for
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#9
The fifth is the interval that's most commonly ommitted from chords, since it contributes per se less then the other notes, it basically reinforces the root.


Quote by Zinnie
No such thing as a Sus7, you can only have a sus2 or sus4. If you omit the third, its just a 1 5 7, say in C, thatd be a C G and B. If you'd like, I guess you could call it a Cmaj7 no third, although its not proper seeing as it CAN be a minMaj7. However, context can normally help us in these situations.


There's no such thing as a 'sus7' correct, but you can have a 7sus2, or a 7sus4, and I've heard people (incorrectly) refer to them a suspended 7th chords. However, you would never assume a chord is a mM7 as it is non-diatonic. I can't think of many context where we'd assume it's a mM7, but you never know with music.
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#10
Quote by Wiegenlied
. However, you would never assume a chord is a mM7 as it is non-diatonic. I can't think of many context where we'd assume it's a mM7, but you never know with music.


I know you wouldn't assume, however, you can't really leave it out of question, especially in jazz where the melodic minor is used. I've actually seen it used quite a few times, very eerie chord imo. I know generally its safe to assume Maj7, but never forget about the ominous minmaj7 xD
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#11
In major keys, You can safely take out the 5th and even the third without losing the character of the chord in progression, in minor keys the third is more important as it isn't fixed (whether you use harmonic/melodic minor).
#12
Quote by Zinnie
you forgot the minMaj7 chord, which occurs on the tonic of the harmonic and melodic minor scales, so the maj7th occurs in more than just the Maj7 chord. Its rarely used, but should still be accounted for



I knew someone was going to bring that up - I'd roll the dice on that one though. I almost added that one, but I'd still gamble that 99.9 percent of the time, people will just play the Min/Maj7 and not imply it...because of its unique tonal qualities....

Therefore it's functionally eliminated.

Sean
#13
"If you leave out an interval, would it be a 7th chord still?"


Yes, no, maybe. It depends on which interval.

Let's use C Major 7 (C-E-G-B) as an example.

If you leave out 7th it's obviously no longer a 7th chord but 'just' the triad you built the 7th chord on. (C-E-G = C Major)

If you leave out the 1st / root, it also reverts back to a triad but a different one, based on the 3rd interval as root. This is actually sometimes done when you substitute chords. (E-G-B = E minor)

If you leave out the 3rd it probably functions as a major seventh. However, it's a bit ambiguous as it could also be named as a G Major with the 5th replaced by a 4th.
(C-G-B)

If you leave out the 5th, it's the the safest bet that it's has a Major 7th function, as the fifth isnt necessary to make a major or minor tonality.

Even so, it all comes down how strong the progression implies the chord, if the root is in bass or an inversion, the harmony and voicing etc.
#14
Quote by ShadesOfGray
Yes, no, maybe. It depends on which interval.

If you leave out the 3rd it probably functions as a major seventh. However, it's a bit ambiguous as it could also be named as a G Major with the 5th replaced by a 4th.
(C-G-B)


That's a very strong analysis, but I'd add that the nature of a 4 is ambiguous only if it's missing a 3rd and that 4th is used as a suspended 4th. I will point out, that if we looked at it as a 3rd along with a 4th we are now soildly in 11th territory and it would sound horrible unless you raised that to a #11 to avoid the minor 2nd clash.

Best,

Sean
#15
in general, you need the 3rd and 7th in there. (for 7th chords)
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#16
yes. in seventh chords, the root and 5th can be replaced by extensions, or omitted entirely in the guitar voicing, and the chord will still function as a 7th chord. The third and the seventh are what define the quality of the chord (you can trust a bassist to define the root), and 1-3-7 voicings are often called shell voicings and very common.
#17
Quote by tehREALcaptain
yes. in seventh chords, the root and 5th can be replaced by extensions, or omitted entirely in the guitar voicing, and the chord will still function as a 7th chord. The third and the seventh are what define the quality of the chord (you can trust a bassist to define the root), and 1-3-7 voicings are often called shell voicings and very common.


In a lot of chord voicings, leaving out the root or fifth would work easily enough. But 7th chords have this weird / cool property of being two triads overlapping. C Major 7 is actually C Major and E minor played at the same time.

So if you remove the root of the 7th chord, it will still be functionally the same.. and enharmonically somewhat too, but you *are* technically playing a different chord entirely.
But this is basically how substitution works, so..
Last edited by ShadesOfGray at Aug 31, 2010,