#1
I'm no scale buff, but i need to know what notes i wanna stick with for a song i'm writing. The chords I'm using are as follows:

B minor
B minor with a G bass (i may have invented this chord, ca i can't find charts for it)
F#

here is a chord chart for the bm/G

x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -

It also may just be named something totally different, but i don't know.

Thanks ahead of time for any help you can give!

EDIT: Sorry if this is in the wrong forum...Guitar Technique seem to me to be the place to ask a guitar theory question.
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Aug 26, 2010,
#2
It's a G major 7. Just use the G Major scale and fool around with it.
#3
Quote by kkquick
It's a G major 7. Just use the G Major scale and fool around with it.

I don't think the G Maj scale is gonna fit here...the song has a very menacing, dark, and dreary kind of sound to it and i don't see the major scale fitting it...
#4
just use the B natural minor (B aeolian) that would have the notes (B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B)

thats sounds like the same key as fade to black by metallica
#5
Oh I was just thinking about the G major 7. My bad. Well, for B minor the Bm scale. For the F# the F# major scale.
You should study intervals and chords. It's a really good thing to understand what you are playing and you will hopefully become even more creative than before.
#7
I'm really curious as to where you got Bm/G from the notes F, B and Db.

Also, Musician Talk is the place to ask about theory. Guitar Techniques is the place to ask about, well... guitar techniques.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
Last edited by DaddyTwoFoot at Aug 26, 2010,
#8
Quote by Blktiger0
I'm no scale buff, but i need to know what notes i wanna stick with for a song i'm writing. The chords I'm using are as follows:

B minor
B minor with a G bass (i may have invented this chord, ca i can't find charts for it)
F#

here is a chord chart for the bm/G

x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -

It also may just be named something totally different, but i don't know.

Thanks ahead of time for any help you can give!

EDIT: Sorry if this is in the wrong forum...Guitar Technique seem to me to be the place to ask a guitar theory question.


First off, the chord you tabbed isn't a Bm/G
The root note is an F, and the rest of the chord is
an F#maj.
So you could use the B natural minor(B aolean) scale, but just know that since
you are voicing, or using, both the F and the F#, you're
gunna need to include them both in the scale.
Last edited by Fallen_Seeker at Aug 26, 2010,
#9
Quote by Fallen_Seeker
First off, the chord you tabbed isn't a Bm/G
The root note is an F, and the rest of the chord is
an F#maj.
So you could use the Bm scale, but just know that since
you are voicing, or using, both the F and the F#, you're
gunna need to include them both in the scale.

That chord he tabbed has the notes F B Db. F#major has F# A# C#.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#10
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
That chord he tabbed has the notes F B Db. F#major has F# A# C#.

Oops...lol
Seems I suffered from a bit of dislexia for a moment, my bad.=P
#11
yep, B aeolian should o the trick, when you go to your Bm/G (Gmaj7 actually) it'll become G lydian, and prevent the chord from sounding all major and cheerfull, then in F#m i'll become F# phrygian, in which case you should be careful of not overusing G, since it becomes a minor 9th, a VERY dissonant interval.

Just another tip: when i'm improvising in a rock or metal context, i find that you get a great sound from removing the 6th grade of either the aeolian or phrygian modes, and the second degree from either lydian or mixolydian modes. Now, there's no theorical reason to do such thing, it's just a matter of taste, i find that removing those single degrees fom the runs makes them sound a lot less stereotypically "scaley sounding" and a lot more meloic and energetic, you might wanna try it out.
#12
Quote by guitarrios
yep, B aeolian should o the trick, when you go to your Bm/G (Gmaj7 actually) it'll become G lydian, and prevent the chord from sounding all major and cheerfull, then in F#m i'll become F# phrygian, in which case you should be careful of not overusing G, since it becomes a minor 9th, a VERY dissonant interval.

Just another tip: when i'm improvising in a rock or metal context, i find that you get a great sound from removing the 6th grade of either the aeolian or phrygian modes, and the second degree from either lydian or mixolydian modes. Now, there's no theorical reason to do such thing, it's just a matter of taste, i find that removing those single degrees fom the runs makes them sound a lot less stereotypically "scaley sounding" and a lot more meloic and energetic, you might wanna try it out.

The chord he tabbed has the notes F, B, Db. Gmaj7 has the notes G B D F# (e.g., only one of the notes tabbed). It is neither a Bm/G or a Gmaj7. I'm honestly not sure what I would call that chord without context.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
Last edited by DaddyTwoFoot at Aug 26, 2010,
#13
To me the tabbed chord is a Bb minor with a #5 and and F bass.

EDIT: excuse me. i don't know what i was thinking when i typed that.
I'd actually say is that it seems to be a variation of a maj7 chord - if you take the F bass 2 octaves up to the other e string.
Last edited by UnmagicMushroom at Aug 26, 2010,
#14
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
I'm really curious as to where you got Bm/G from the notes F, B and Db.

Also, Musician Talk is the place to ask about theory. Guitar Techniques is the place to ask about, well... guitar techniques.


B minor:
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
o| - 1 - - - -
x| - - - - - -

My "Bm/G"
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -

So in my opinion, (me not being a big theory buff) i just changed the bass note in the chord from a B to a G, thus a Bm/G chord. Turns out that most people know it by a different name. Now i know that

and sorry about that, but theory seemed like a guitar technique to me, as it is something some people use and others don't. As in, some people use scales and know where they apply and where they don't and why they apply and why they dont, and other people just play the damn guitar and know if it sounds good/feels good to them. That spells technique to me.

Quote by guitarrios
yep, B aeolian should o the trick, when you go to your Bm/G (Gmaj7 actually) it'll become G lydian, and prevent the chord from sounding all major and cheerfull, then in F#m i'll become F# phrygian, in which case you should be careful of not overusing G, since it becomes a minor 9th, a VERY dissonant interval.

Just another tip: when i'm improvising in a rock or metal context, i find that you get a great sound from removing the 6th grade of either the aeolian or phrygian modes, and the second degree from either lydian or mixolydian modes. Now, there's no theorical reason to do such thing, it's just a matter of taste, i find that removing those single degrees fom the runs makes them sound a lot less stereotypically "scaley sounding" and a lot more meloic and energetic, you might wanna try it out.


One say, when i understand what in the **** you just said, i will keep that in mind (i'm being serious, not a sarcastic ass), but until then, you are probably better off typing a response in russian that using the words: aeolian, lydian, phrygian, 6th grade (in this context), mixolydian, second degree (in this context), and minor 9th (although, if i thought about it i could figure that one out). i understood dissonant and all the note names though! If possible, could you retype that in a language i understand (either note names or fret and string positions)? lol. Thanks either way
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Aug 28, 2010,
#15
Well your Bminor isn't a Bminor. Bminor has the notes B F# D, you have A# E# B C#. Which is an A#minor with an added b9 and the way you have that chord voiced has a tritone in it which gives it that odd sound. Then your Bminor/G doesn't have a G it has a F. So if I were still thinking key of C# it'd just be an A#minaddb9/F, and yes you can have a chord not have the root note in it.

People suggested you use the Gmajor scale because Bminor is the natural minor to G, playing a Bminor then excluding the b and playing a G on top makes a Gmajor7 which is a very pretty change.

Forgot to add what scale to use. Use the A# Jazz(melodic) Minor Scale over top both chords. The notes are A# B C# D# E# F# G# A#.
Last edited by 1mmpick at Aug 28, 2010,
#16
lol wow cannot beleieve the arguments going on over this damn chord.

x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -

gives us a F in the bass, another F, a B and a C#... nowhere near b minor or G major >.> Bm = B D F# A#, Gmaj = G B D F#

As far as anyone saying use G major cauase B is the natural minor of G.. what the hell are you talking about? B minor is the natural minor of D major.

Now if you want my opinion, the chord you expressed about containing F B and C#, I would just called Bsus2flat5/F


edit::
B minor:
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
o| - 1 - - - -
x| - - - - - -

My "Bm/G"
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - -

The first chord is not a Bminor, at all. You have the notes A# F B C# which is much mnore complicated to name. going on my previous Bsus2Flat5 we now have a major 7 involved (A#) and since we all know natural minor chords do not contain a major 7, this gives us a hint as to a scale we could use, B harmonic minor. Though that doesnt really contain the flat 5 the chord has so you have to look somewhere else.

FYI, A Bm looks like this:
e-2
B-3
G-4
D-4
A-2
E-x


And you must have no idea how inversions work because your Bm/G doesnt even contain the note G so how the hell could it ever be Bm/G?????
Bm/G: (much luck to uou actually voicing this :P)
e-2
B-3
G-4
D-4
A-2
E-3

Now of course those arent the only voicings or in the second case one easily played if at all, but they contain the right notes.. what you have makes just zero sense.

As far as finding a scale or something to play over, take all the chords in your song and write down all the notes each chord has. Put all the notes together in a line and see if you can apply any basic major or minor pattern over the notes you have. Dont worry if your notes dont make up any "real" scale, quite honestly there are scales out there that exist for every possible note collection you could ever have, its just a matter of you picking out the important notes and making it work. Goodluck

Are you telling me theyre out of dragons?
They never had dragons..
Who didnt?
The world..
GET THIS GUY OUT OF HERE, FIND ME A DRAGON
Last edited by glenthemann at Aug 28, 2010,
#17
Quote by glenthemann
lol wow cannot beleieve the arguments going on over this damn chord.

x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -

gives us a F in the bass, another F, a B and a C#... nowhere near b minor or G major >.> Bm = B D F# A#, Gmaj = G B D F#

As far as anyone saying use G major cauase B is the natural minor of G.. what the hell are you talking about? B minor is the natural minor of D major.

Now if you want my opinion, the chord you expressed about containing F B and C#, I would just called Bsus2flat5/F



where do you people keep getting that the bass note is F???


x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -
........^
This is the Bass note
It's the 3rd fret on the lowest string. In standard tuning, that gives us a G. The number 1 signifies what finger i'm using, not the fret. Unless i am missing something important here that somehow changes a G to an F, i don't see how that is ever an F (unless you are tuned down a whole step).

The dashes in my chart represent the frets. I guess it's my fault for not clarifying how to read my chord chart, but after 8 years of guitar lessons and 5 years on my own, i THINK i know my base chords pretty well (as in major and minor) and i know the notes pretty well too. Keep in mind though, the guitar lessons were from age 5 to 13, so that explains me not having experience with aeolian or lydian or whatever and also explains my lack of theory knowledge, as i was more concerned with being able to play AC/DC than learning what the hell a scale was (i regret this now...lol).

So far, the B aeolian scale fits like a glove, so guitarrios seems to know what's going on. I realize that other people suggested this scale too, but he presented it with the most backup.
Last edited by Blktiger0 at Aug 28, 2010,
#18
You can make a really weird sounding Bossa rhythm if you think of the G as a (#5) extension of the Bm instead of the root of a Gmaj7.
Gotta finish my work, then play some grooves, so I can turn my room into a house of blues...
#19
Quote by Blktiger0
where do you people keep getting that the bass note is F???


x| - - - - - -
o| - - 2 - - -
o| - - - 4 - -
o| - - - 3 - -
x| - - - - - -
o| - - 1 - - -
^
This is the Bass note
It's the 3rd fret on the lowest string. In standard tuning, that gives us a G. The number 1 signifies what finger i'm using, not the fret. Unless i am missing something important here that somehow changes a G to an F, i don't see how that is ever an F (unless you are tuned down a whole step).

So far, the B aeolian scale fits like a glove, so guitarrios seems to know what's going on. I realize that other people suggested this scale too, but he presented it with the most backup.


Oh wow, thats because you have no idea how a tab works then. You never use numbers to describe what finger you are usniog, the numbers tell you what fret.

Jesus christ.

Are you telling me theyre out of dragons?
They never had dragons..
Who didnt?
The world..
GET THIS GUY OUT OF HERE, FIND ME A DRAGON
#20
Yeah you should probably relearn how to tab chords out. The number is the fret not the finger. So like I said before if you have Bminor, then take out the B and put in a G root you have a Gmajor7, use the Gmajor Scale.........
#21
Quote by glenthemann
Oh wow, thats because you have no idea how a tab works then. You never use numbers to describe what finger you are usniog, the numbers tell you what fret.

Jesus christ.


Oh, i'm sorry that i'm not a master of making chord charts out of text. I guess i should spend more time on that and less time on songwriting so i can be more successful. Seems odd plenty of other people were smart enough to understand what i meant. I know how to read/write tabs, but this isn't a tab, it's a chord chart. I guess next time before i start a thread i'll google proper chord chart tabbing. Maybe if i'm calling it a Bm and other people are agreeing that it's a Bm, you should look at the Chord chart in a different way. You would think that if i lack extensive knowledge in guitar theory then i MAYBE i'm not a master of chord charts.
#22
Quote by Blktiger0
Oh, i'm sorry that i'm not a master of making chord charts out of text. I guess i should spend more time on that and less time on songwriting so i can be more successful. Seems odd plenty of other people were smart enough to understand what i meant. I know how to read/write tabs, but this isn't a tab, it's a chord chart. I guess next time before i start a thread i'll google proper chord chart tabbing. Maybe if i'm calling it a Bm and other people are agreeing that it's a Bm, you should look at the Chord chart in a different way. You would think that if i lack extensive knowledge in guitar theory then i MAYBE i'm not a master of chord charts.

No one gives a rats arse about what fingers you are using to voice a chord. I and I guess the others didnt realize we had to count the number of hyphens you used to determine the fret. For me anyway, when it comes to theory it makes the most sense to present the notes and where they are most clearly, which is why I assumed the numbers to be frets

I understand what a chord chart is, but I have never seen anyone use it and hey, Im not the only one who was confused. I just figured you were sloppy with the amount of -'s you put in.

Are you telling me theyre out of dragons?
They never had dragons..
Who didnt?
The world..
GET THIS GUY OUT OF HERE, FIND ME A DRAGON
Last edited by glenthemann at Aug 28, 2010,
#23
Quote by glenthemann
No one gives a rats arse about what fingers you are using to voice a chord. I and I guess the others didnt realize we had to count the number of hyphens you used to determine the fret. For me anyway, when it comes to theory it makes the most sense to present the notes and where they are most clearly, which is why I assumed the numbers to be frets

I understand what a chord chart is, but I have never seen anyone use it and hey, Im not the only one who was confused. I just figured you were sloppy with the amount of -'s you put in.


ok, ok it doesn't matter, as the question was answered anyway.

in the future, i need to be more clear and not use useless information in place of useful information, and you need to consider that there is more than one way to skin a cat (who skins cat, anyway?). Sorry for the misunderstanding, but thanks for the effort in trying to help and trying to clear things up.
#24
Well crap dude, you made your tab completely wrong. That's why everyone was confused.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#25
no, not everyone was confused. just about half the people. but i understood it perfectly.
#27
Quote by Blktiger0
oh, just as an update, i checked my old guitar instruction books, and all of the chord tabs in there include numbers that designate fingering for the chord.

Yeah, except those would be drawings like this:


Right?

You wrote your chord chart the same way as ASCII tablature is done. Basically, do it differently from now on. It keeps everyone on the same page.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#28
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
Yeah, except those would be drawings like this:


Right?

You wrote your chord chart the same way as ASCII tablature is done. Basically, do it differently from now on. It keeps everyone on the same page.


No, that's not what it looked like. I'll upload a picture tomorrow when i have the book with me to scan it. The numbers were cut out of the black bubbles.