#1
Is there any (quick) way to find the relative major scale in a Mode, using the degrees?

For example I know that if I have a minor scale and I want to find its relative major, I have to see its third degree (eg the relative of A minor scale is C major scale).

I just want to know this in order to have more "control" when soloing using modes.
#2
Quote by Duarteman
I just want to know this in order to have more "control" when soloing using modes.
I don't understand this logic, but I'll answer your question anyway.

Dorian - 7
Phrygian - 6
Lydian - 5
Mixolydian - 4
Aeolian - 3
Locrian - 2
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#3
Dorian is 7
Phrygian is 6
Lydian is 5
Mixo-Lydain is 4
Aeolian is 3
Locrian is 2
Ionian is.. well 1

EDIT: damn!
#5
The way that I figured out how to do it is all relating to key signatures and it's worked for me so far.

If we've got Ab Dorian:
Ab has 4 flats. Dorian is natural minor with a raised 6th so that's two flats. Add it up and you've got 6 flats which is the key signature for Gb major.

Ab major - Ab Bb C Db Eb F G

Ab Dorian - Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb

Gb major - Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F

As you can see, they have the same notes.

and another example...

If we have D Phrygian:
D has two sharps. Phrygian is natural minor with a lowered 2nd so that's 4 flats. 2 sharps + 4 flats = 2 flats. 2 flats = Bb major.

D major - D E F# G A B C#

D Phrygian - D Eb F G A Bb C

Bb major - Bb C D Eb F G A

And they have the same notes!

For relative minors, just get the relative minor of the major scale. that's by adding 3 flats or making a minor scale based off of the 6th degree.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Who's going to stop you? The music police?
Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Aug 26, 2010,
#6
Quote by Duarteman
And it's relative minor?
Locrian - 7
Ionian - 6
Dorian - 5
Phrygian - 4
Lydian - 3
Mixolydian - 2

Although I shouldn't be simply spoon-feeding you these, I should teach you how to do what I just did. And I'll do that now:

Basically the "modes of the major scale" are all relative to each other by definition. If you look at the modes of the C major scale, you have the following: C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A aeolian and B locrian. You know that dorian is the second mode of the major scale (it's root is a second above the root of the relative major). Using that knowledge, the inverse of that (which is a seventh) is the degree of the dorian mode that the relative major is rooted on.

I hope that isn't confusing. Basically what you need to know is that C is the seventh scale degree of D dorian. Likewise, C is the fifth scale degree of F lydian, and so on for all of the modes.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#7
I Don't Punch Like Muhammad A-Li

Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian

Further on...

C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian

All those modes have the same key signature so they are all "relative" to each other if that's what you're asking.
#8
Quote by food1010
Locrian - 7
Ionian - 6
Dorian - 5
Phrygian - 4
Lydian - 3
Mixolydian - 2

Although I shouldn't be simply spoon-feeding you these, I should teach you how to do what I just did. And I'll do that now:

Basically the "modes of the major scale" are all relative to each other by definition. If you look at the modes of the C major scale, you have the following: C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A aeolian and B locrian. You know that dorian is the second mode of the major scale (it's root is a second above the root of the relative major). Using that knowledge, the inverse of that (which is a seventh) is the degree of the dorian mode that the relative major is rooted on.

I hope that isn't confusing. Basically what you need to know is that C is the seventh scale degree of D dorian. Likewise, C is the fifth scale degree of F lydian, and so on for all of the modes.

I think I understand this but, somehow, it doesn't seem logical to me. That's why I was looking for a quick way. I think it has something to do with the inversions, I don't know them very well. Can you recommend me any good lesson about intervals?


pwrmax I know that, thanks for all the replies!
#9
Quote by Duarteman
Is there any (quick) way to find the relative major scale in a Mode, using the degrees?

For example I know that if I have a minor scale and I want to find its relative major, I have to see its third degree (eg the relative of A minor scale is C major scale).

I just want to know this in order to have more "control" when soloing using modes.


Sure there is. One visual I created for beginning students, before I taught them extended chord voicings, later on down the line was look at a Major Scale pattern on the fretboard and superimpose the modal names over the notes positionally, as follows:

Aeo------Loc Ion--
Phr Lyd------ Mix--
-----Ion ------Dor--

Lets say I was on D Mixolydian. I could look at the 5th fret 5th string "D" and picture that in relation to the Ion, and see that Ionian is at the 3rd fret 6th string, i.e. G. So I could take a G to it.

If I had been in D Phrygian, then that D note is now functioning in the Phr position, nand from that map, I can see Ion would be one half step and 1 string up, positionally, at the 6th fret 6th string, which would be Bb Ionian.

There are many ways, simply knowing your intervals and scales and chord construction allows you to instantly determine what everything is...and that's really the best way. But for people that want to simply play a Pentatonic for reference, this is a fast and easy way to do it.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Aug 27, 2010,
#10
Quote by Duarteman
Can you recommend me any good lesson about intervals?
Of course. You should understand intervals very well before moving on to other stuff, including scales (in my opinion). So, here you go:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/general_music/the_crusade_part_2_intervals.html
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/general_music/the_crusade_part_3_applying_them_intervals.html
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Aug 27, 2010,
#11
Quote by food1010
Of course. You should understand intervals very well before moving on to other stuff, including scales (in my opinion). So, here you go:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/general_music/the_crusade_part_2_intervals.html
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/general_music/the_crusade_part_3_applying_them_intervals.html

What I really meant was inversions, not intervals I know intervals. Lol
#12
Quote by Duarteman
What I really meant was inversions, not intervals I know intervals. Lol
Basically all you need to know about inverting intervals in this case is to divide the octave up into 12 semitones and subtract the interval.

For example, you know that a major third is four semitones. Subtract four from twelve and you get eight. What interval is eight semitones? A minor sixth.

Simple as that. Once you do this a few times, it should just be automatic.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#14
Quote by Duarteman
What I really meant was inversions, not intervals I know intervals. Lol

Inversions are for chords, not modes.
#15
Sorry for the confusion about terminology, I believe that was my fault. TS, the guys are right, you're not using inversions. I was talking about using the inverse of an interval, which has little to do with inversions.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea