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#5
Quote by mmolteratx
Here we go again.

Right behind you.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#7
Hmmm. Two channels and a push pull output with just one 12AX7 in the preamp. Wonder how they're doin that?
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#8
SS? music man run push pull output with no phase inverter tube (the early 12AX7 PI models are highly sought after). so i guess you can do it SS, i am not sure what music man used though
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#9
Quote by mmolteratx
Hmmm. Two channels and a push pull output with just one 12AX7 in the preamp. Wonder how they're doin that?

and something called an ECC82???

My opinion: bullshit. thats gonna be digital reverb, the only tone control is ISF so it really isn't versatile at all and to cap it all off, an 8" speaker. Its another amp which just scrapes itself into the 'valve amp' category and if you actually look at the specs they're pretty unimpressive, especially from a controls perspective.
#10
yeah, i just checked the release. an ecc82 is like a 12at-7 or 12ay-7, it is a low gain dual triode. so one is probably the PI
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
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#11
12AT7 is in push pull triode configuration for the poweramp. 12AX7 is used in the preamp. Phase inverter is SS, main preamp functions come from op amps and distortion comes from diode clipping in a typical diode in the feedback loop setup like the HT-5. Unlike the HT-5 though, it doesn't have a full tonestack and instead has the ISF circuit. They should have just stuck with a tone control instead. The reverb is lulz since presumably the power amp is supposed to break up which will make it sound like shit IMO.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Aug 27, 2010,
#12
Quote by mmolteratx
12AT7 is in push pull triode configuration for the poweramp. 12AX7 is used in the preamp. Phase inverter is SS, main preamp functions come from op amps and distortion comes from diode clipping in a typical diode in the feedback loop setup like the HT-5. Unlike the HT-5 though, it doesn't have a full tonestack and instead has the ISF circuit. They should have just stuck with a tone control instead. The reverb is lulz since presumably the power amp is supposed to break up which will make it sound like shit IMO.


wow, i didn't see that in the release. so it sounds like they have something similar to a TS-9 in preamp? i am not familiar with ISF. i don't down digital reverb models anymore, but if the power section in a 12AT7 in the power section the reverb will sound like shit.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#14
But dood, teh HT-5 duz br00tlz!
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#15
Quote by gumbilicious
wow, i didn't see that in the release. so it sounds like they have something similar to a TS-9 in preamp? i am not familiar with ISF. i don't down digital reverb models anymore, but if the power section in a 12AT7 in the power section the reverb will sound like shit.


It's the same set up as the HT-5 but with reverb, no tone stack and the 12AT7 power section instead of the 12BH7 in the HT-5. The ISF is supposed to switch between American and British voicings but isn't that great IMO. A regular tone control would have been infinitely more useful, again IMO.

Schem of the HT-5 is here if you'd like to take a look.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16338/

My main problem with Blackstar is that in the last HT-1 thread someone e-mailed Blackstar about the diode clipping allegations and the 'engineer' told them that the diodes were used for 'pre-gain' amplification. Which is absolute lulz. These are the same guys responsible for the diode clipping JCM800s, the 900s, the AVT series, the Mode Four and the DSL/TSL.

EDIT: Oh yea, there was the issue of them stating that the 12AX7 was the last thing in the preamp as well, which it clearly isn't.

EDIT2: I'd like to repeat what I said in the last thread as well. I'm not slagging the sound; I'm slagging the marketing practices of a company and questioning the purpose of a 1w amp that's mostly SS anyways. The HT-5 sounds just fine at low volumes and the 8 inch speaker in the combo is extremely unattractive, especially if you want to be playing any sort of metal. For the studio there are far better choices.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Aug 27, 2010,
#16
Quote by mmolteratx
It's the same set up as the HT-5 but with reverb, no tone stack and the 12AT7 power section instead of the 12BH7 in the HT-5. The ISF is supposed to switch between American and British voicings but isn't that great IMO. A regular tone control would have been infinitely more useful, again IMO.

Schem of the HT-5 is here if you'd like to take a look.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16338/

My main problem with Blackstar is that in the last HT-1 thread someone e-mailed Blackstar about the diode clipping allegations and the 'engineer' told them that the diodes were used for 'pre-gain' amplification. Which is absolute lulz. These are the same guys responsible for the diode clipping JCM800s, the 900s, the AVT series, the Mode Four and the DSL/TSL.

EDIT: Oh yea, there was the issue of them stating that the 12AX7 was the last thing in the preamp as well, which it clearly isn't.


oh, that explains a bunch of back story. i kinda remember AM doing a big production over the diode clipping and 900's and how they were the same people. didn't put 2 and 2 together.

pre-gain amplification...

i am sure that has already been addressed. any idea how they implement this ISF thing? is it DSP? i mean, why didn't they just use a crappy 'big muff' style tone knob if the ISF is that bad. rhetorical, don't expect that last one to be answered, the answer is that it makes the amp more versatile/gimmicky.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#17
It's not a complete gimmick. It does indeed change the voicing a bit but I find it considerably less useful than a tone control or traditional tone stack. The ISF is part of the odd looking tone stack.

EDIT:

In case no one saw my edit in the last post:

I'd like to repeat what I said in the last thread as well. I'm not slagging the sound; I'm slagging the marketing practices of a company and questioning the purpose of a 1w amp that's mostly SS anyways. The HT-5 sounds just fine at low volumes and the 8 inch speaker in the combo is extremely unattractive, especially if you want to be playing any sort of metal. For the studio there are far better choices.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Aug 27, 2010,
#18
It's a novelty item that they are going to sell at the cash registers.
#19


let's hope this delivers.

so this isn't spam: I bet there's no SS stuff at all in the signal path. Only blackstar can get the brootz tone in your head with one 12ax7.
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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Funny how everyone loved the HT-5 some months earlier.

They got recommended like nothing else, now people here absolutely seem to hate Blackstar, just for using diode clipping in their amps, while they still sound good.

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#22
^ Thats what happens when the majority of the forum-goers are 15 year olds who know nothing about tone and jump on bandwagons faster than you can say "Oh em gee if it's not drop B it's for pussies."

People need to realize that Blackstar DOES NOT advertise the HT-5 as an all tube amp. They never have, they probably never will. It uses tubes for MOST of its tone. The general consensus is that it sounds great, because it does. It does what it was made for...good overdriven tones at low volume. It has a footswitch and an effects loop ffs. It costs less than 99% of tube amps.

And if all that weren't enough...everyone LOVED the tone and recommended it for months until like ONE person called Blackstar and heard that it MIGHT get some of its tone from a solid-state component. All the band-wagoners went crazy and its suddenly like "LOL THE BLACKSTAR IZ TEH SOLID STATE LOLOLOL DIODE LOLOL"


People need to use their brain. The HT series is a great line of amps. The HT-1 costs next to nothing, and they probably won't advertise it as the best amp of all time.
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Last edited by Ayses at Aug 28, 2010,
#24
Quote by Ayses

People need to realize that Blackstar DOES NOT advertise the HT-5 as an all tube amp. They never have, they probably never will. It uses tubes for MOST of its tone. The general consensus is that it sounds great, because it does. It does what it was made for...good overdriven tones at low volume. It has a footswitch and an effects loop ffs. It costs less than 99% of tube amps.

And if all that weren't enough...everyone LOVED the tone and recommended it for months until like ONE person called Blackstar and heard that it MIGHT get some of its tone from a solid-state component. All the band-wagoners went crazy and its suddenly like "LOL THE BLACKSTAR IZ TEH SOLID STATE LOLOLOL DIODE LOLOL"


People need to use their brain. The HT series is a great line of amps. The HT-1 costs next to nothing, and they probably won't advertise it as the best amp of all time.


The literature states that it's a valve amp. Therefore I call them on the fact that it isn't a true valve amp. And in the last thread, a Blackstar 'engineer' claimed there was no diode clipping and that diodes were used for amplification. The first is proved wrong by looking at the schematic. The second is just impossible as diodes are passive components.

Again, I never said anything about the sound. I do think the HT-5 is okay at best though. Not my favorite small amp at all. I've never loved the tone. Very rarely do I recommend it.

And last I checked 169 pounds for the head was $270. Just over a hundred dollars more will land you a Red Iron Lil Mo that's hand built true PTP in the USA with high quality components. And no diode clipping so that it actually gets those cranked tube tones! Then there's the issue with the power amp distorting with reverb. The amp makes no sense. It will never be a studio amp because there are so many better options if you're looking for cranked tube tone at low volumes. The whole bedroom amp thing is hilarious to me as well. Speakers working hard are just as important as the power tubes. Which is why you will never get cranked tones at bedroom volumes.
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#25
Quote by mmolteratx
It's the same set up as the HT-5 but with reverb, no tone stack and the 12AT7 power section instead of the 12BH7 in the HT-5. The ISF is supposed to switch between American and British voicings but isn't that great IMO. A regular tone control would have been infinitely more useful, again IMO.

Schem of the HT-5 is here if you'd like to take a look.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16338/

My main problem with Blackstar is that in the last HT-1 thread someone e-mailed Blackstar about the diode clipping allegations and the 'engineer' told them that the diodes were used for 'pre-gain' amplification. Which is absolute lulz. These are the same guys responsible for the diode clipping JCM800s, the 900s, the AVT series, the Mode Four and the DSL/TSL.

EDIT: Oh yea, there was the issue of them stating that the 12AX7 was the last thing in the preamp as well, which it clearly isn't.

EDIT2: I'd like to repeat what I said in the last thread as well. I'm not slagging the sound; I'm slagging the marketing practices of a company and questioning the purpose of a 1w amp that's mostly SS anyways. The HT-5 sounds just fine at low volumes and the 8 inch speaker in the combo is extremely unattractive, especially if you want to be playing any sort of metal. For the studio there are far better choices.

It is possible that those two back to back diodes at the front are only there as over-voltage protection, they are zeners. The diagram doesn't show the voltage of those zeners so I'm still skeptical. We'd need to know what voltage zeners they are before we can be certain what they are doing there. However they aren't the only things in the circuit doing some clipping, it looks like a TS. In particular look at the feedback loop on IC3a.
I simply don't like the idea of having the input going directly into an opamp even if there is no clipping. It's my beef with the JCM900 4100 too even if you've removed the clipping diodes like I've done on mine. If you run a boost in front you are boosting the level into an opamp, not a valve. We all know what running two overdrive pedals together in series don't we? Start clipping those opamps and it sounds like puss oozing from an angry bee. Not exactly going to give you Beano now is it?
Basically what we've got here is a pedal permanently turned on in front of the amp. The br00tz kiddies might like that I guess, or the tone deaf death metal heads, but for my money I'd use a Champ in preference any day. Br00tz on a 5W amp seems a wee bit wanky anyway. Sorta like driving a Viper with a Morris Minor engine in it.
Still, I'd like to see a schematic of the HT-1. People bought the last one so I guess it will be the same old smeg. If you want more gain you add another valve (or reduce how much grid current you sink to ground); using opamps is lazy, cheap, counter-productive and rather sacrilegious. Once you stick an opamp in the main signal path you've just made another shitty hybrid amp. Oh well, I guess people buy Valvestates too; there's no accounting for taste and they are in business to make money, not satisfy tone purists. A lot of Spiders get sold too.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 28, 2010,
#26
I'm basing it off the TS style diode in feedback loop clipping section. Where the pot is labeled gain. I dunno if the zeners are clipping since like you said there are no voltages.
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#27
I don't understand why this amp is even required. The HT-5 is perfectly adequate for the lowest of low volume practise, and doesn't sound that much better the more you crank it. You're simply hearing the nuances more richly since that is the level at which the human ear perceives tone better at.
#28
Quote by mmolteratx
12AT7 is in push pull triode configuration for the poweramp. 12AX7 is used in the preamp. Phase inverter is SS, main preamp functions come from op amps and distortion comes from diode clipping in a typical diode in the feedback loop setup like the HT-5. Unlike the HT-5 though, it doesn't have a full tonestack and instead has the ISF circuit. They should have just stuck with a tone control instead. The reverb is lulz since presumably the power amp is supposed to break up which will make it sound like shit IMO.


why the heck would they use a push pull configuration, when they only have two tubes? that's wasting a tube if you ask me for a 1Watter
#29
Quote by mmolteratx
The literature states that it's a valve amp. Therefore I call them on the fact that it isn't a true valve amp. And in the last thread, a Blackstar 'engineer' claimed there was no diode clipping and that diodes were used for amplification. The first is proved wrong by looking at the schematic. The second is just impossible as diodes are passive components.
I don't see the words "pure valve" anywhere in the handbook, nor any of their advertisements, etc. What do you expect? Do you want them to NOT mention that there are valves at all just because it has some passive SS parts in it?

It IS a valve amp. It has valves in the pre and power amp. It uses those valves to create its tone. It is a valve amp. It is a tube amp. Also, it is a valve amp. Plus it's a valve amp. Got that in your head?

They never said it was a pure valve amp. Ever. They said it was a valve amp. Because it is. It uses valves for amplification.

If you're one of those guys who thinks that all SS components are the work of the devil himself, this isn't the amp for you. If you are willing to accept that a MASSIVE percentage of the greatest tones of all time are generated with at least some SS components, then don't go around saying that the HT-5 isn't a valve amp. It is. And it does its job nicely.

As for the HT-1, nobody here has played it, heard it, or seen it outside of a photograph. So...um...just wow.
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Last edited by Ayses at Aug 28, 2010,
#30
Quote by Ayses
I don't see the words "pure valve" anywhere in the handbook, nor any of their advertisements, etc. What do you expect? Do you want them to NOT mention that there are valves at all just because it has some passive SS parts in it?

It IS a valve amp. It has valves in the pre and power amp. It uses those valves to create its tone. It is a valve amp. It is a tube amp. Also, it is a valve amp. Plus it's a valve amp. Got that in your head?

They never said it was a pure valve amp. Ever. They said it was a valve amp. Because it is. It uses valves for amplification.

If you're one of those guys who thinks that all SS components are the work of the devil himself, this isn't the amp for you. If you are willing to accept that a MASSIVE percentage of the greatest tones of all time are generated with at least some SS components, then don't go around saying that the HT-5 isn't a valve amp. It is. And it does its job nicely.

As for the HT-1, nobody here has played it, heard it, or seen it outside of a photograph. So...um...just wow.

Well I'm somebody that calls a JCM900 Dual Reverb a hybrid amp. If it is all SS it's SS, if it's all valve, it's a valve amp. If it uses both it's a hybrid. Got that in your head?

I will concede a SS rectifier as irrelevant to the definition because it's not in the signal path, but the HT-5 is a hybrid.
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#31
^ Exactly. And there are plenty of 1W all tube amps around right now.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#32
Quote by Ayses
I don't see the words "pure valve" anywhere in the handbook, nor any of their advertisements, etc. What do you expect? Do you want them to NOT mention that there are valves at all just because it has some passive SS parts in it?

It IS a valve amp. It has valves in the pre and power amp. It uses those valves to create its tone. It is a valve amp. It is a tube amp. Also, it is a valve amp. Plus it's a valve amp. Got that in your head?

They never said it was a pure valve amp. Ever. They said it was a valve amp. Because it is. It uses valves for amplification.

If you're one of those guys who thinks that all SS components are the work of the devil himself, this isn't the amp for you. If you are willing to accept that a MASSIVE percentage of the greatest tones of all time are generated with at least some SS components, then don't go around saying that the HT-5 isn't a valve amp. It is. And it does its job nicely.

As for the HT-1, nobody here has played it, heard it, or seen it outside of a photograph. So...um...just wow.
Relax.

I don't think he's saying that solid state components make a bad sound - at least not from where I'm sitting - he's simply saying the HT-5 is not a pure valve in the tradional sense.

I personally don't think it's a pure valve amp because it doesn't feel like a pure valve amp. It doesn't have that touch sensitivity that most small wattage valve amps have, particularly British ones like a Matamp Minimatt or even a Marshall Class 5.
#33
The issue is not a transistor sound, but rather that it's falsely advertised as a tube amplifier.

Lipstick on a pig and all that.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#34
"Valve" has been a marketting buzzword for ages now. I've just never seen anybody get so furious about it. If you like how it sounds, it shouldn't matter what components it uses. If you don't like how it sounds, don't buy it. I just think you're giving them a lot more hate than they deserve. Blackstar aren't the only ones guilty of this.

Slightly off topic: The Jet City 20 watt and the Egnater Rebel are priced similar to the HT-5. Can anyone confirm if they're "all valve" or if they also use solid state components in the signal path? I'm just curious.
#35
If you ask about the Jet City and Egnater being hybrid, then you're provoking an even bigger shitstorm.
#36
^^ I'd hate any other company that did something similar.

Like, Bugera, for instance, and their claim of "boutique style" amps.

It's about business practices and build quality. The name badge on the head means nothing.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
Last edited by bubb_tubbs at Aug 28, 2010,
#37
OH NOESS!

i'm sick of these mother****ing diodes in my mother****ing Blackstar!?!?


I don't give a shit, if it sounds good i'll buy one, simple.

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#38
Quote by bubb_tubbs
^^ I'd hate any other company that did something similar.

Like, Bugera, for instance, and their claim of "boutique style" amps.

It's about business practices and build quality. The name badge on the head means nothing.

"boutique" is another vague marketting word. It means nothing. It's just a word they try to use instead of saying "good". Who cares what the ads have to say?

I doubt the marketting department are the ones who designed the circuit.

EDIT: As for Jet City and Egnater, I can't find any schematics, but I've heard that both of them are similar to Marshall 18-watters in terms of the circuit.
Last edited by sashki at Aug 28, 2010,
#39
^ And if the product sucks AND the ads are misleading?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#40
Quote by Ayses
The general consensus is that it sounds great, because it does. It does what it was made for...good overdriven tones at low volume.

actually, the general consensus is that it sounds mediocre. its a solid amp, but most of the people in GG&A who have tried a lot of amps will not say it sounds great.
Quote by Ayses

It has a footswitch and an effects loop ffs. It costs less than 99% of tube amps.

and these are the two biggest benefits of the amp. its a low cost, good sounding tube amp with a bunch of features and a good ammount of versitility. the features and price are what make the ht-5 a good amp, the sound isnt anything to brag about.

ive said it before, and im sure this wont be the last time: i really, really liked the ht-5 the first time i played it. every time ive played it after that, i am much less impressed by the sound. the fact that it had an effects loop, a good ammount of gain, multiple channels and that isf thingy really impressed me (well, the isf always felt gimicky). none of the other 5 watters have that stuff. but most of them have better pure tone.
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