#1
well i have $160 to spend and i'm sick of solid state, i play mainly blues and I've narowed it down to a Fender champ or an Epiphone valve junior. I might take a bugera v5 but i just don't really know about it. So what would be best for something like the early Black Keys sound?
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#2
i'm not really familiar with the black keys.

regarding the tone of the amps, the valve junior is much more british-sounding, is more aimed at overdrive than cleans, and takes distortion/overdrive pedals really well.

the champ (assuming you mean the new champion 600 reissue) is much more american-voiced and is more aimed at clean tones.

up to you. you have several other options too in the low-budget, single-ended/low wattage tube amp market, so don't neglect them either (I haven't tried the bugera, I can't help you with that one).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#4
^ i agree. i feel like the champ could be an excellent amp, but i hate the small speaker. doesnt do the thing justice at all.

im not overly familiar with the black keys (i was actually having this discussion last night too), but i kinda get the feeling the fender might be the way to go for their sound.
#5
The champ will be what you're looking for. You might want to consider doing a combo to head and cab conversion on it so you can get around the fact the speaker isnt great. Theres a fantastic tutorial somewhere on here (im on a phone right now, cant link anything)
#6
The Champ is an awesome amp with a crappy speaker. Run it through a nice 12" speaker and it's tone is hard to beat at any price. The VJ is good but not as good a build quality really. It does come in a head version which makes it easier to run into a good speaker without surgery though.
They have an almost identical preamp circuit. The difference in sound mostly comes from the difference between a 6V6 (Champ) and an EL84 (VJ). The 6L6 is American smooth (think SRV), the EL84 has more British bite and breaks up earlier (think Beano). Which you like most basically comes down to your preference between 6V6s and EL84s.

PS: did you create this thread because we sorta hijacked your last one with the discussion about modding the VJ?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 28, 2010,
#7
Save up some more money and buy a used Peavey Classic 30. You can find them used on places like craigslist for around $300-$350 easy enough.


IIRC Maestro Fuzz and the green Russian big muff are some pedals Dan used early on.
#8
I've read at some amp forum that valve jr is basically a slightly modified copy of fender champ and one can be modified into another pretty easy. I've looked at the schematics of both of them and they do look similar.
#9
Quote by Rice_Pilot
I've read at some amp forum that valve jr is basically a slightly modified copy of fender champ and one can be modified into another pretty easy. I've looked at the schematics of both of them and they do look similar.

Well the power amp is different - 6V6 vs EL84 and the VJ has no negative feedback loop.
To say that it's a slightly modified Champ is a stretch even if the circuitry is similar (and yes it is very similar) because it is such a simple circuit. If you were to design the most basic two stage valve preamp you could think of then you'd have almost certainly end up with a Champ circuit even if you'd never seen one before. It's so obvious and straight forward that saying its a modified Champ is a bit silly, it's the simplest circuit this side of a light switch. It is the obvious solution that anybody would ever design. I really don't know how you could make it simpler, it's straight out of an electronics textbook on amplifier basics.
It's like saying Picasso copied Rembrandt because he used a brush.

PS: The fact that is so incredibly simple is actually why it sounds so sweet. You're getting the pure unadulterated sound of the valves and transformer themselves with no colouring.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Aug 28, 2010,
#10
Quote by Cathbard
Well the power amp is different - 6V6 vs EL84 and the VJ has no negative feedback loop.
To say that it's a slightly modified Champ is a stretch even if the circuitry is similar (and yes it is very similar) because it is such a simple circuit. If you were to design the most basic two stage valve preamp you could think of then you'd have almost certainly end up with a Champ circuit even if you'd never seen one before. It's so obvious and straight forward that saying its a modified Champ is a bit silly, it's the simplest circuit this side of a light switch. It is the obvious solution that anybody would ever design. I really don't know how you could make it simpler, it's straight out of an electronics textbook on amplifier basics.
It's like saying Picasso copied Rembrandt because he used a brush.

PS: The fact that is so incredibly simple is actually why it sounds so sweet. You're getting the pure unadulterated sound of the valves and transformer themselves with no colouring.


Thanks for enlightenment, and sorry for not doing my homework
#11
Quote by Cathbard
Well the power amp is different - 6V6 vs EL84 and the VJ has no negative feedback loop.
To say that it's a slightly modified Champ is a stretch even if the circuitry is similar (and yes it is very similar) because it is such a simple circuit. If you were to design the most basic two stage valve preamp you could think of then you'd have almost certainly end up with a Champ circuit even if you'd never seen one before. It's so obvious and straight forward that saying its a modified Champ is a bit silly, it's the simplest circuit this side of a light switch. It is the obvious solution that anybody would ever design. I really don't know how you could make it simpler, it's straight out of an electronics textbook on amplifier basics.
It's like saying Picasso copied Rembrandt because he used a brush.

PS: The fact that is so incredibly simple is actually why it sounds so sweet. You're getting the pure unadulterated sound of the valves and transformer themselves with no colouring.



You must be talking about a vintage Champ. Going by their $160 budget, I believe the op is talking about the newer Champion 600 ($149.99) or possibly the Vibro-Champ XD with built in effects ($199.99).
Last edited by Earthrug at Aug 28, 2010,
#12
IIRC Maestro Fuzz and the green Russian big muff are some pedals Dan used early on.

yeah those sound about right, he's used tons of pedals though so it'd be hard to know most of them.
PS: did you create this thread because we sorta hijacked your last one with the discussion about modding the VJ?

haha sort of but mainly cause I decided for sure that I'm getting a new amp and I'm not really sure on what to get.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#13
Quote by Earthrug
You must be talking about a vintage Champ. Going by their $160 budget, I believe the op is talking about the newer Champion 600

The Champion 600 uses the same circuitry as the old ones (they say a 5E1 but it's really a 5F1), they just do it on a PCB instead of a turret board.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#14
and i probably will get a cab sooner or later. a 1x12 or 2x12 8 ohms right?
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
Last edited by grungebaby at Aug 28, 2010,
#15
Quote by grungebaby
yeah those sound about right, he's used tons of pedals though so it'd be hard to know most of them.

haha sort of but mainly cause I decided for sure that I'm getting a new amp and I'm not really sure on what to get.



Ya, he is a bit of a pedal junky. You might just try to get an overall "vibe" of the tones. You could go cheap with say a Dano French Toast or even a DOD Classic Fuzz. The NYC Big Muff's are pretty cool as well. Also, stacking gain pedals together into a clean or overdriven amp can also create some good tones. Say an overdrive pedal into a Muff fuzz....
#16
If you get the Champ, the cab has to be 4 ohms total. So two 8 ohm speakers in parallel or a single 4 ohm (if you can find one). But 12" for sure. A 2x12 will probably be easier to get in 4 ohm than a 1x12.
Can't remember what impedance VJ's can do. Somebody with one may chime in with that spec.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Quote by Cathbard
The Champion 600 uses the same circuitry as the old ones (they say a 5E1 but it's really a 5F1), they just do it on a PCB instead of a turret board.



Interesting. I thought the pre-amp section on the new ones was altered along with not having a tube rec. But ya, there are def' similarities overall.
#18
Quote by Cathbard
If you get the Champ, the cab has to be 4 ohms total. So two 8 ohm speakers in parallel or a single 4 ohm (if you can find one). But 12" for sure. A 2x12 will probably be easier to get in 4 ohm than a 1x12.
Can't remember what impedance VJ's can do. Somebody with one may chime in with that spec.



IIRC the VJ heads have 4, 8, 16 ohm speaker outs.
#19
Ya, he is a bit of a pedal junky. You might just try to get an overall "vibe" of the tones. You could go cheap with say a Dano French Toast or even a DOD Classic Fuzz. The NYC Big Muff's are pretty cool as well. Also, stacking gain pedals together into a clean or overdriven amp can also create some good tones. Say an overdrive pedal into a Muff fuzz....

yeah i saw somewhere his live pedalboard had like maybe 8 pedals i can't really remember but i want his early kind of fuzzy tone like on the song thickfreakness or stack shot billy.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#20
IIRC the VJ heads have 4, 8, 16 ohm speaker outs.

the head and combo or just the heads? cause at the moment i can't get a cab so i'll need to get the combo.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#21
Quote by grungebaby
the head and combo or just the heads? cause at the moment i can't get a cab so i'll need to get the combo.



Not sure about the combo's. I owned the head version and IIRC it had those options.
#22
alright i'll look it up here after a while but I'm pretty sure I'll end up with a champ but I don't know for sure, are there any other good tube amps in my price range or are these the best i'm going to find?
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#23
Quote by grungebaby
alright i'll look it up here after a while but I'm pretty sure I'll end up with a champ but I don't know for sure, are there any other good tube amps in my price range or are these the best i'm going to find?



There is that 5/3 watt Blackheart little giant amp and they also have the killer ant @ 1watt.

The EQ and 3 watt mode on the Little Giant is (imo) a nice feature to have. They are $199.99 new but you should be able to find a used one within your budget easy enough.


All in all......(imo) cranking any of the small amps mentioned so far into overdrive and adding a dirt pedal in front of it will get you some of the nice "retro" tones you are looking for.


Edit...what amp are you using now? You could always use the speaker in there until you get a cab.
Last edited by Earthrug at Aug 28, 2010,
#24
a vypyr 15w with a 3 ohm speaker.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo
#25
Quote by grungebaby
a vypyr 15w with a 3 ohm speaker.



Looks like that's not happening then.


You still might consider saving a little more for a PV Classic30. They are great "bang for your buck" tube amps. I use one all the time for the Rock N' Blues stuff.
Last edited by Earthrug at Aug 28, 2010,
#26
well i don't have a job and can't get one, so more money isn't an option, this is all birthday money.
Guitars:
LTD F-50
Yamaha EG-112
'77 Harmony
Roadworn Starcaster
Gretsch G5120

Amps:
Vypyr 15
Epiphone Valve Junior combo