#1
From what i've read on other threads atonal soloing is pretty much going
out of key or playing accidentals on purpose lol. i just wana know how you get it sounding evil and chaotic like Morbid Angel lol
#2
Quote by ZomgAC130
From what i've read on other threads atonal soloing is pretty much going out of key or playing accidentals on purpose lol.
Nope. Atonal music doesn't even have keys, thus accidentals don't even exist.

Going out of key/using accidentals is called "chromatic," whereas playing only notes in key is called "diatonic."

Atonal music is defined by the complete lack of a tonal center. You can play chromatically and still retain a tonal center.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Aug 28, 2010,
#3
So from what I gather - go apeshit on the guitar = atonal
Gear:
Electric
2008 Epiphone G400 Heritage CherryFUBAR
2008 Ibanez GRG 170 DX
2009 Cort KX1Q
2011 LTD H 351 NT
Randall RG 50 TC
Ernie Ball 11-54
Acoustic
Dean Markley
Dunlop 10's
#4
thats one way of putting it. the best way to go atonal is to tap like mental across the fretboard, but it still has to sound tidy. and youll have to use more than 1 finger w/ your right hand.

or, play a diminished chord run every 3 frets (maybe as a sweep) over a whole tone scale: if you do the root note runs, itll be entirely chromatic.
Praise the Z-Dog, my DADDY ♂♂♂
#5
yea i was thinking of doing some diminished arpeggios lol with wammy tricks xD
#6
Quote by ZomgAC130
yea i was thinking of doing some diminished arpeggios lol with wammy tricks xD


arp these.

E-4-7-10-13---------------------------------------
b-3-6-9---12--------------------------------------
g-4-7-10-13----------------------------------------
d-3-6-9---12---------------------------------------
a---------------------------------------------
e---------------------------------------------

see the pattern? every 3 semitones. diminished chords have no roots (or rather, any note can be a root). now, play that shape progression across a whole tone. notice that technically, at some point, every note is hit? yupps. thats the easiest way to do it.

sorry, you probably already know this
Praise the Z-Dog, my DADDY ♂♂♂
#8
It pretty much is just ad-lib chaos. It fits the mood most of the time but I find it very tasteless playing actually. You should try working in some different melodic ideas into the chaos as well. Autopsy did it well by adding in blues and minor ideas into that same kind of chaotic soloing.
#9
Quote by food1010
Nope. Atonal music doesn't even have keys, thus accidentals don't even exist.

Going out of key/using accidentals is called "chromatic," whereas playing only notes in key is called "diatonic."

Atonal music is defined by the complete lack of a tonal center. You can play chromatically and still retain a tonal center.


This is a common misconception. Atonal music still uses techniques like pedal notes and harmonic devices such suspensions/appoggiaturras/sequences (I use these terms loosely), to create tonal centres, however fleetingly. However, it will employ chromaticism to the point that any one tonality or modality cannot be pinned down at a given moment. This may seem like a contradiction, but it's not. In atonal music, a tonal centre can exist independantly of a key or mode.

I prefer looking at atonal music as a confusion arising out of multiple keys existing simultaneously, rather than the absense of key.
#10
Quote by National_Anthem
This is a common misconception. Atonal music still uses techniques like pedal notes and harmonic devices such suspensions/appoggiaturras/sequences (I use these terms loosely), to create tonal centres, however fleetingly. However, it will employ chromaticism to the point that any one tonality or modality cannot be pinned down at a given moment. This may seem like a contradiction, but it's not. In atonal music, a tonal centre can exist independantly of a key or mode.

I prefer looking at atonal music as a confusion arising out of multiple keys existing simultaneously, rather than the absense of key.
I see what you're saying, and can't really refute it. My point was that because of the lack of a consistent tonal center means you can't define a tonal center for a specific section of the piece, thus rendering accidentals meaningless. The definition of "atonal" isn't merely using chromaticism as my original response was meant to point out. Chromaticism doesn't inherently imply modulation or tonal ambiguity. It certainly can, but it doesn't inherently.

Just wondering, what is the classification of dodecaphony according to your definition? Since it travels through every tone before repeating one, doesn't it avoid a tonal center completely? Or is each note a tonal center of its own?
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#11
Quote by food1010
I see what you're saying, and can't really refute it.


That's because it's more or less true

Quote by food1010

My point was that because of the lack of a consistent tonal center means you can't define a tonal center for a specific section of the piece, thus rendering accidentals meaningless.


I don't know. I have issues with the wording here, but I get what you're saying


Quote by food1010

The definition of "atonal" isn't merely using chromaticism as my original response was meant to point out. Chromaticism doesn't inherently imply modulation or tonal ambiguity. It certainly can, but it doesn't inherently.


No, of course not. But extreme chromaticism inevitably causes tonal ambiguity.


Quote by food1010

Just wondering, what is the classification of dodecaphony according to your definition? Since it travels through every tone before repeating one, doesn't it avoid a tonal center completely? Or is each note a tonal center of its own?


Interestingly enough, Schoenberg referred to atonality as pantonality. He took the view that you're describing right there, and not necessarily just for 12-tone music. Ironically, the tonal theorist Schenker (renowned for his dislike of atonal music) shared some of these ideas about tonal music.
#12
there is an approach to soloing called The Triadic Chromatic Approach, created by the saxophonist and jazz pedagogue George Garzone. Essentially, you move triads around chromatically to create an effect very much similar to creating a tone row (usually over tonal changes) and play a line that is non-permutative (you can't guess where its going to go, the direction of the pitches and use of stepwise motion and skips is irregular). If you google it, a DVD created by Garzone to teach it comes up, which is pricy but chock full of amazing content. This sort of thing, however, is MUCH harder then standard (tonal, melodic) soloing and moreover, if you don't have an amazing grasp on tonal improvisation over very difficult chord changes, practicing this stuff is extremely hard.
That being said, I don't know if the band you mentioned actually uses atonality (i'd doubt it) but learn some of their stuff if the above method seems to ardous, and perhaps brush up on your tonal theory (and eventually move to analyzing atonal stuff) and check out slominsky's thesarus of melodic patterns, which is full of stuff of tonal ambiguity, and some legit atonal patterns.
#13
Learn cool sound stuff like Whole-Tone and Diminished scales. Also be able to shred the shit out of the chromatic scale will help.