#1
Hello everyone!

I was wondering if I could use a Fender Standard Stratocaster (MIM) and use it for early Van Halen such as VH1 stuff (Ain't Talking Bout Love, Little Dreamer, Eruption, You Really Got Me... etc)

My real question is if I could use the tremolo and it would stay in tune?

How was EVH able to get his 2 point trem to go so low and still stay in tune?

I know EVH used a modded strat for VH1 and I would probably install a Seymour Duncan Hot Rail (See Below) so I could get that Humbucker tone.

http://www.music123.com/Seymour-Duncan-SHR-1-Hot-Rail-Stacked-Single-Coil-Pickup-300300-i1127440.Music123

Thanks and I hope for some replies!

Joe
Gear:
Fender FSR Standard Stratocaster SSS (MIM Gilmour Black Strat) -
Agile AL-2000 CSB -
Fender Super Champ XD -
Homemade Talkbox -
THE BORG COLLECTIVE
#2
Quote by Joe-Floyd-lover
How was EVH able to get his 2 point trem to go so low and still stay in tune?

Because it was a Floyd Rose, not a standard Fender bridge. As far as I know, none of EVH's early guitars had a standard bridge.

I know EVH used a modded strat for VH1 and I would probably install a Seymour Duncan Hot Rail (See Below) so I could get that Humbucker tone.

http://www.music123.com/Seymour-Duncan-SHR-1-Hot-Rail-Stacked-Single-Coil-Pickup-300300-i1127440.Music123

There are many factors besides pickups to nailing EVH's tone. But adding at least one humbucker would be a good place to start. Sorry I can't be much help besides that.
Q: Favourite Pink Floyd song?
A: The one where they get wicked high and play Emin and A for an hour.
#3
yeah EVH had a floyd rose. If you have a regular strat trem, then it wont stay in tune even with locking tuners. however if you put a hotrail in you get a really good Van Halen tone.
Source: I was in the same boat as you are. put in locking tuners, didnt stay in tune, blah. SD Hotrail, bridge pickup (its really good for other things outside of Van Halen too, obviously. i'm really happy with it.)
"The most important thing about music is energy and emotion, not how well you can play. Technique should be a tool to achieve your vision, not the other way around."
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#4
I'd say drop in the hotrail and save for a bridge replacement. EVH didn't just make money pop out of nowhere to custom modify his axes either, took him time.
Quote by fly135
Great list Rutch. On re-reading this one I'd have to say Solid State means not liquid or gas.

I figured it out.
#5
Quote by biker521
If you have a regular strat trem, then it wont stay in tune even with locking tuners.

Source: I was in the same boat as you are. put in locking tuners, didnt stay in tune, blah.

Now this, I take a bit of issue with.

I got a Strat-style guitar and I put in a set of Schaller locking tuners, and replaced the nut with a graphite nut, and added roller string trees. Those last two things are actually just as necessary as locking tuners, and if you think just putting locking tuners in is going to fix that problem, you'd be wrong, since most of the problem is friction against the nut and string tree. Replace those with graphite or rollers, and the locking tuners do the job perfectly. I've NEVER had a tuning problem with my guitar when I installed all three of those things. And the great thing is, it costs far less than buying a Floyd Rose, and is a much easier install than routing out half the body for a Floyd and a bit of the neck for the locking nut.
Q: Favourite Pink Floyd song?
A: The one where they get wicked high and play Emin and A for an hour.
#6
i play VH on a strat all the time so that's no problem. eddies original trem was a 6screw not a 2 point. i suggest having your trem set up to float. by doing this you can pull up a little and i've found that this will unkink the strings at the nut. adding a hot rails or a JB jr would help give you the sound.
#7
EVH did not have a Floyd Rose on his first album, nor the second IIRC... it wasn't invented yet when VHI came out. He never exactly said why, but I chalk it up to a well setup trem, a properly cut nut, and a little voodoo.
#8
Quote by CJRocker
EVH did not have a Floyd Rose on his first album, nor the second IIRC... it wasn't invented yet when VHI came out.

The first Floyds were released in early 1977, almost a full year before VH I was released.

Just sayin'
Q: Favourite Pink Floyd song?
A: The one where they get wicked high and play Emin and A for an hour.
#9
Only VH1 EVH didn't have a floyd!

on VH1 he used a standard strat bridge with a boogie bodies Body and Neck look here:



Notice: NO DOUBLE LOCKING FLOYD!


basically this idea came from me watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClVzdRuSWyw&feature=related

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQR08efgvck&NR=1

I thought that I would need a floyd to get the sound of those dives but now I saw you could do it with a strat trem...

How is it still able to stay in tune???
Gear:
Fender FSR Standard Stratocaster SSS (MIM Gilmour Black Strat) -
Agile AL-2000 CSB -
Fender Super Champ XD -
Homemade Talkbox -
THE BORG COLLECTIVE
#10
Just a note to everyone saying that Eddie used a floyd, while this is true for nearly everything, Van Halen I was released in early 1978 and recorded in late 1977. The patents for the Floyd Rose were filed in October of 1979. Ergo, Eddie was using a standard strat tremolo on Eruption and everything else on Van Halen I, since he certainly wasn't using a Bigsby.

Right then, TS, pop a humbucker into the bridge, and it'll do everything nicely. As for the tremolo, a lot more, nicer ways to keep a non-locking system in-tune exist now than in the late 70's/early 80's. Give it a graphite nut, some locking tuners, and keep the string saddles lubricated with graphite, and it'll hold tuning just fine.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

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Last edited by necrosis1193 at Aug 28, 2010,
#11
Thanks,

finally someone who really knows their S*** on this thread!

I'll probably go with that

Is the MIM not worth it based on electronics or should I go for something else like a Highway one or a American?
Gear:
Fender FSR Standard Stratocaster SSS (MIM Gilmour Black Strat) -
Agile AL-2000 CSB -
Fender Super Champ XD -
Homemade Talkbox -
THE BORG COLLECTIVE
#12
Glad to be a help. Personally, although I own and can vouch for MIM strats, I'd buy as high as you can afford; the nicer a guitar you get, the better you'll play. We can all play alright on everything, sure, but I don't think anyone on here is going to deny that if you're equally comfortable on a guitar meant to stay together and sound alright and a guitar meant to outlive you, sound good and give you access to every note as crisp as it can get, you're probably going to do better with the guitar you won't have to fight.

That said though, if you're going to get into $1,000+ strats, I'd personally recommend one of these instead;

http://www.carvinguitars.com/guitars-in-stock/single.php?Serial=108025

US-made, master tone control to help tame the bridge pickup when it gets unwieldy, coil splitter for traditional strat sounds and a humbucker, and locking tuners and a nice two-point tremolo that'll stay in tune all standard. Best of all, since you can't try their guitars in-store, don't love it after ten days? Send it back, then go buy yourself an American strat. Spec it yourself and you can get it cheaper and/or better, albeit you'll have to wait for it to be built.

Now all this said, I'd hunt down a shop that has a MIM, a Highway 1, an American Standard and some sort of Carvin(They all use the same neck profile), compare them all, and see which you like the neck of most. Sure they're all bolt-on so you can mix-n-match, but the happier you are from the get-go, the better. But personally, I'd put money on the Carvin.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

Baltimore Orioles: 2014 AL Eastern Division Champions, 2017: 75-87
Baltimore Ravens: 2012 World Champions, 2017: 4-5
2017 NFL Pick 'Em: 92-54
Last edited by necrosis1193 at Aug 28, 2010,
#13
Just to add to what necrosis already said....

VH1 didn't feature a Floyd Rose and for VHII Ed used his Bumblebee Charvel quite a lot. Ed used a brass nut with the slots cut fairly wide so the strings wouldn't get caught in the grooves. He didn't start using a Floyd until he signed with Kramer, and on top of that he used a Rockinger trem before that which was actually referred to as the "Eddie Van Halen Tremolo".

Here's all the information you'll ever need about the Floyd Rose and EVH, from the beginning:
http://www.vintagekramer.com/parts6.htm

...and some extra info about the Rockinger if you're interested
http://www.vintagekramer.com/parts4.htm

Also note that, at first Ed's "Frankie" had a 21 fret neck. So your MIM is more then capable....except for the divebombs Another thing is, on every song on VH1 that does NOT feature the tremolo or divebombs, Ed used his Ibanez Destroyer which was a hardtail, and thats like half of the songs
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
Last edited by DSOTM80 at Aug 29, 2010,
#14
Double Post

Edit:

Here's a great post I just came across on the Kramer Forum with a little history of all the necks Ed had on his Frankie. Note that it didn't have a Floyd Rose with fine tuners until '83, in the '82 photo thats an early Floyd version without the fine tuners

http://kramerforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=462585&postcount=71
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
Last edited by DSOTM80 at Aug 29, 2010,
#15
EVH did not use a locking trem. He after a while i think installed schaller locking tuners. And then went on to use the floyd rose. as i think it was exclusive to kramer back then
#16
Floyd Rose is a locking trem, more specifically a double locking trem. You do also realize EVH used a ton of different guitars right? Not just his Frankenstrat, Kramer 5150 and so on. For example, Hot For Teacher was recorded on a Gibson Flying V.
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#17
Quote by DSOTM80
Floyd Rose is a locking trem, more specifically a double locking trem. You do also realize EVH used a ton of different guitars right? Not just his Frankenstrat, Kramer 5150 and so on. For example, Hot For Teacher was recorded on a Gibson Flying V.


Right. Wasn't most of VH 1 an Ibanez Destroyer?
#18
Just throwin it out there, Eddie did a LOT just to get his guitar to stay in tune without a floyd. He had a brass nut, with the nut slots being over sized, and he had tons of nut lube in there, along with the locking tuners. I guess there was way more stuff he did too.
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#19
Quote by DSOTM80
Floyd Rose is a locking trem, more specifically a double locking trem. You do also realize EVH used a ton of different guitars right? Not just his Frankenstrat, Kramer 5150 and so on. For example, Hot For Teacher was recorded on a Gibson Flying V.

No wonder that didn't really sound much like a strat with a humbucker...

Quote by BobDetroit
Right. Wasn't most of VH 1 an Ibanez Destroyer?

I know he used it for part of it. How much, I dunno.

TS, a strat will be FINE as long as you get a decent nut (graphite is my material of choice) and a set of locking tuners.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
Last edited by oneblackened at Sep 3, 2010,
#20
Yea every song on VH1 that doesn't have a dive bomb or trem used was played on his Ibanez Destroyer, such as You Really Got Me.
On Hot For Teacher, he used to toggle switch on the V to go from overdriven to a cleaner tone. Set bridge pickup volume to 10 and set neck pickup volume lower for a cleaner tone, then switched back and forth. Simple
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#21
How is it still able to stay in tune???

The same way Hendrix did–lots of takes in the studio and live he probably tuned up or swapped guitars between songs.
#22
Quote by Joe-Floyd-lover
Hello everyone!

I was wondering if I could use a Fender Standard Stratocaster (MIM) and use it for early Van Halen such as VH1 stuff (Ain't Talking Bout Love, Little Dreamer, Eruption, You Really Got Me... etc)

My real question is if I could use the tremolo and it would stay in tune?

How was EVH able to get his 2 point trem to go so low and still stay in tune?

I know EVH used a modded strat for VH1 and I would probably install a Seymour Duncan Hot Rail (See Below) so I could get that Humbucker tone.

http://www.music123.com/Seymour-Duncan-SHR-1-Hot-Rail-Stacked-Single-Coil-Pickup-300300-i1127440.Music123

Thanks and I hope for some replies!

Joe



What does (MIM) mean?
#23
Quote by staggguitarhead
What does (MIM) mean?


Made In Mexico. Fender makes guitar both in the US and Mexico so that designation is used for he one from Mexico.

for the record a standard trem can be made to stay in tune even when doing dive bombs. if you listen to VH1 you'll notice that the dives really aren't as extreme as the ones heard these days from locking tem users. i'll also point out theat eddie used a standard trem on i believe the first 3 albums and perhaps some tracks after that as he prefered the sound.
#24
Quote by biker521
yeah EVH had a floyd rose. If you have a regular strat trem, then it wont stay in tune even with locking tuners. however if you put a hotrail in you get a really good Van Halen tone.
Source: I was in the same boat as you are. put in locking tuners, didnt stay in tune, blah. SD Hotrail, bridge pickup (its really good for other things outside of Van Halen too, obviously. i'm really happy with it.)



Really? Mine seem to work just fine, divebombs and all.
#25
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