#1
Hey, I just started learning guitar for about 3 months, and I've to admit that I love it!
Anyway, I'm thinking of getting an Epiphone Les Paul Custom. However, I recall a dude on Youtube saying that Epiphone Les Paul Standards tend to go out of tune very often. This raises my question, do Epiphone Les Paul Standards have Grover Tuners or average tuners like the Standards do? What other differences are there between Standards and Customs besides cosmetic?
Thx and cheers
#2
The Standards and Customs both have 18:1 Grover tuners now. Any problems relating to tuning are not going to be because of the tuners; most likely it is because the guitar hasn't been set up properly or restrung correctly, which is by far the most common cause of tuning problems. Second to that, the nut that Epiphone use still isn't too great and that can cause tuning problems occasionally, but that's not a hard fix.

There are no difference between the Standard and Custom other than the finish. That is all you are paying extra for.
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#3
Quote by MrFlibble
The Standards and Customs both have 18:1 Grover tuners now. Any problems relating to tuning are not going to be because of the tuners; most likely it is because the guitar hasn't been set up properly or restrung correctly, which is by far the most common cause of tuning problems. Second to that, the nut that Epiphone use still isn't too great and that can cause tuning problems occasionally, but that's not a hard fix.

There are no difference between the Standard and Custom other than the finish. That is all you are paying extra for.

They're NOT 18:1 grovers. They're 14:1, and they're not the real nice ones either. The nut is a complete piece of crap. but that's kinda normal.
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#4
The Standard and Custom are the same except for looks.

You won't have tuning problems when your guitar is strung properly and the nut is lubricated. Unlike more expensive guitars with graphite or bone nuts, Epis come with plastic ones that aren't self-lubricating, so you need to take care of that yourself. A soft pencil will do the trick (they contain graphite, which can be used as lubricant).

Also, remember to stretch your strings when putting new ones on your guitar.

This is how you string a guitar properly:




The tuners on Epis don't look or feel trustworthy most of the time. They often wiggle a bit, but they actually work nicely, so I wouldn't worry about replacing them. As has been said, most of the time it's not the tuners' fault if the guitar goes out of tune.
#5
I got an epi lp custom and after usign that stringing method they stay in tune pretty damn well, except the G string falls out every now and then but other than that its okay
#6
Quote by TheQuailman
The Standard and Custom are the same except for looks.

You won't have tuning problems when your guitar is strung properly and the nut is lubricated. Unlike more expensive guitars with graphite or bone nuts, Epis come with plastic ones that aren't self-lubricating, so you need to take care of that yourself. A soft pencil will do the trick (they contain graphite, which can be used as lubricant).

Also, remember to stretch your strings when putting new ones on your guitar.

This is how you string a guitar properly:




The tuners on Epis don't look or feel trustworthy most of the time. They often wiggle a bit, but they actually work nicely, so I wouldn't worry about replacing them. As has been said, most of the time it's not the tuners' fault if the guitar goes out of tune.


Great writeup. That picture has good directions. That is how I always do it, and my guitars pretty much always stay in tune. I usually always have Grovers on my guitars, too.
***Guitars***
Epiphone Les Paul Custom AP (w/ 2 Seymour Duncans)
Jackson Dx10D Dinky (w/ DiMarzio PAF Bridge)
Epihpone Hummingbird

***Amps***
Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100 (Voodoo Modified)
Custom 4x12 Halfstack (w/ Veteran 30's)
#7
Quote by oneblackened
They're NOT 18:1 grovers. They're 14:1, and they're not the real nice ones either. The nut is a complete piece of crap. but that's kinda normal.
They're 18:1. The 14:1 Grover copies are only found on the Studio, Junior, Special-II and a few of the other crap models they make. The Standards and onwards have 18:1, actual Grovers.
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#8
Quote by MrFlibble
They're 18:1. The 14:1 Grover copies are only found on the Studio, Junior, Special-II and a few of the other crap models they make. The Standards and onwards have 18:1, actual Grovers.

Wow, thanks for the replies guys!
I am new about these little gears and stuff so I suppose that the bigger the scale is, the better? Is Grover the best brand for tuners? What's special about them?
Is an Epiphone Les Paul custom one in the higher class? because it would be my second guitar and i wouldn't want to spent the money without a significant upgrade. I play a Yamaha Pacfica 012 now.
Also, do u think that a Custom is worth the money compare to a Standard?
Oh yeah, may i also ask which one of these grovers tuners r used on epi les paul custom?
http://www.wdmusic.com/shop_by_category_tuning_machines_grover.html
Many Thx
Last edited by RayL at Sep 1, 2010,
#9
Me I would go with the Plus top standard and with the saving get something else on my list of stuff to get, I owned a standard it was a great guitar.
#10
Quote by RayL
Wow, thanks for the replies guys!
I am new about these little gears and stuff so I suppose that the bigger the scale is, the better?

It's a little easier to tune precisely with 18:1 as compared to 14:1, but it's no big deal. I wouldn't base my decision on what guitar to buy on that.

Quote by RayL
Is Grover the best brand for tuners? What's special about them?

They're just tuners. Like I said in my earlier post, they can look and feel a bit suspicious, but they work nicely.

Quote by RayL
Is an Epiphone Les Paul custom one in the higher class?

That depends on what is "higher class" for you. With Epi there have been quality issues ever since the production was moved from Korea to China. It's been getting better with time, but they still make the occassional lemon, so you need to try out and take a close look at the guitar you're buying.

The stock pickups in it are terrible. To my ears some of the worst ever made. Muddy, lifeless and generally dreadful. Pots and wiring seem alright.

With the mentioned qc issues, the guitars range from "horrid" to "very very nice for what it costs". And that's talking about one and the same model. So yeah, you can get something nice, if you take your time and pick carefully.

Quote by RayL
because it would be my second guitar and i wouldn't want to spent the money without a significant upgrade. I play a Yamaha Pacfica 012 now.

The 012 is a typical beginner guitar, the Epi is a bit nicer (assuming you pick one that isn't a lemon). However, whether the upgrade is worth it depends a lot on what tones you want and what other gear you have. If you're using a cheap beginner amp, consider getting a better amp and getting your 012 set up by a tech instead. That's the way I'd go (unless there was something wrong with the 012, that is).

Quote by RayL
Also, do u think that a Custom is worth the money compare to a Standard?

No, we answered that already. Twice. Did you actually read the thread?
#11
Quote by TheQuailman
It's a little easier to tune precisely with 18:1 as compared to 14:1, but it's no big deal. I wouldn't base my decision on what guitar to buy on that.


They're just tuners. Like I said in my earlier post, they can look and feel a bit suspicious, but they work nicely.


That depends on what is "higher class" for you. With Epi there have been quality issues ever since the production was moved from Korea to China. It's been getting better with time, but they still make the occassional lemon, so you need to try out and take a close look at the guitar you're buying.

The stock pickups in it are terrible. To my ears some of the worst ever made. Muddy, lifeless and generally dreadful. Pots and wiring seem alright.

With the mentioned qc issues, the guitars range from "horrid" to "very very nice for what it costs". And that's talking about one and the same model. So yeah, you can get something nice, if you take your time and pick carefully.


The 012 is a typical beginner guitar, the Epi is a bit nicer (assuming you pick one that isn't a lemon). However, whether the upgrade is worth it depends a lot on what tones you want and what other gear you have. If you're using a cheap beginner amp, consider getting a better amp and getting your 012 set up by a tech instead. That's the way I'd go (unless there was something wrong with the 012, that is).


No, we answered that already. Twice. Did you actually read the thread?

Thx for the detailed answer, yeah i did read the threads, but i really do love the look of a custom ebony
im just sort of scared to tell the different between a nice individul and a "lemon", i thought epiphones go through very detail inspection

BTW, yes there is sort of a problem with my 012, check this thread
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1356785
i have pictures of the problem somewhere downthere

thank you sir, ur answers r very detailed
Last edited by RayL at Sep 1, 2010,
#12
I wouldn't worry about the headstock tilting a bit forward. As long as it doesn't go so high up that the strings jump out of the nut while playing, you're fine. I've seen that on many guitars and it doesn't seem to compromise their function at all.

As to the nut on the input jack, tighten it until it is... well, tight. Don't use excessive force and you're fine.


Don't buy a guitar based on looks. Looks get old after a while, but a guitar that plays nicely and sounds good doesn't.
Try many different guitars to see what's good and what's not. Even stuff that is way out of your price range. Just to get an idea of what is out there. You'll notice that on average, a 1000€+ guitar plays and sounds better than a 200€ one, but to truly notice the difference you have to spend some time with the expensive one so your hands and ears get used to it. A lot of it is just preference as well.

Take your time, don't rush into gear-decisions.
#13
Quote by MrFlibble
They're 18:1. The 14:1 Grover copies are only found on the Studio, Junior, Special-II and a few of the other crap models they make. The Standards and onwards have 18:1, actual Grovers.

Except the Junior, Special II and otherwise have generic die cast tuners. Epiphone has even said they're 14:1. Why? They're cheaper.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#14
Quote by oneblackened
Except the Junior, Special II and otherwise have generic die cast tuners. Epiphone has even said they're 14:1. Why? They're cheaper.
Again, not the case. The Special-II and its bastard brethren have Grover copies (14:1), while the Standards and so on have actual Grovers (18:1). The Standards have been on sale with 18:1 Grovers since late 2008 (or early 2009, depending on your country, shipments, etc) and the others have had their Grover copies since the end of last year.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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#15
^well that would explain some of it. I have '06 era Epis, so that was pre-change.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.