#1
Lately, i've been getting a lot of djent style bands and really technical sides of metalcore/hardcore. Bands like Pehiphery and Elitist use very 'broken' time signatures with groups of notes in no repeating fashion.

1) how do these bands create such rhythms?
2) how in the world do you train yourself to learn them?
-Gear-
Mesa Triple Rectifier---Bogner/Line6 SpiderValve---Orange PPC 4x12

-Pedalboard/Rackmount-
Alesis MidiVerb4--BBE SonicMaximizer 442--Ibanez TS9
Boss DD-3--Morley Mark Tremonti Wah

-Guitars-
Ibanez ART-100
Ibanez S-470
#2
Quote by FlyingPooooo
Lately, i've been getting a lot of djent style bands and really technical sides of metalcore/hardcore. Bands like Pehiphery and Elitist use very 'broken' time signatures with groups of notes in no repeating fashion.

1) how do these bands create such rhythms?
2) how in the world do you train yourself to learn them?


The only way I can think of is to memorize them... but I would really like to find a more efficient way. I play drums and playing along to songs where i can't find the double bass pattern during the breakdowns is annoying... heh.
~Carl
#3
Quote by FlyingPooooo
1) how do these bands create such rhythms?

99 percent of the time, it's as simple as pure intuition.
Q: Favourite Pink Floyd song?
A: The one where they get wicked high and play Emin and A for an hour.
#4
well if you look at where bands might have gone the idea like tool for instance
the breakdown in Vicarious shows this broken time sig.
but it includes a special type of beat/rhythm called polyrhythms
in retrospective the rhythm is so good it sounds broken
#5
its probably just playing what they want hear, not really getting technical about it.

just play what you feel, not necessarily whats technically correct.

if it sounds good it is good.
#6
think of the guitar riff as an entity that is so badass that it has absolutely no regard for petty things like bar divisions. it won't stop its train of thought for anyone, much less what the audience perceives as the end of a conventional 4/4 measure.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#7
Thats just it, its so complicated though. For instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk7hmZ4q_ck
-Gear-
Mesa Triple Rectifier---Bogner/Line6 SpiderValve---Orange PPC 4x12

-Pedalboard/Rackmount-
Alesis MidiVerb4--BBE SonicMaximizer 442--Ibanez TS9
Boss DD-3--Morley Mark Tremonti Wah

-Guitars-
Ibanez ART-100
Ibanez S-470
#8
that was 4/4, with a little odd timing and extended motifs. if you're trying to learn the song, find the point of repetition and internalize the riff before you even try to play it.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#11
Try playing Meshuggah's "I" and "In Death - Is Death". You can fit 4/4 over it, but that doesn't help.

For 1, I just play what sounds good to me. It might sound technical, but I just throw out whatever I think of and see how it all connects up. I suppose having an appreciation for patterns and mathematics may help. Pick some notes and numbers and have at it.

For 2, it's pure memorisation. Listen to the drums as well, and you might be able to discern a groove that you can get a feel for.
#12
You have to be sure to count out your 1/4 and 1/8 notes. Time signatures are great fun, I highly encourage you to use it. Adds a totally different dimension to your sound, versus the norm

And hey, there are no rules. Especially when you are messing with fractions, do whatever you want. My favorites are 3/4, 7/8 , 9/8, 10/8, 7/4.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#13
From the moment you were born most music you heared was either 4/4 or 3/4. These are natural to you. Now measres like 5/4 or 7/8 or any Odd amount of beats in a measure just take TIME to get used to. I have been writing and producing both rock and electronic music in odd time signatures for 3 years now, and after a certain time you will just get that groove down. You no longer have to count out those measrures you will just feel them.

To make a long story short, if your interested in using odd time signatures, use them frequently and you will eventually get their groove going without need to count it out.
#14
Quote by Oixord
Also 4/4

Nope, its not got the guitar pro opened up on it. Not the first breakdown I think its the second one around 1:40.

Ill try out meshuggah as well, your right its just not natural to me yet.
-Gear-
Mesa Triple Rectifier---Bogner/Line6 SpiderValve---Orange PPC 4x12

-Pedalboard/Rackmount-
Alesis MidiVerb4--BBE SonicMaximizer 442--Ibanez TS9
Boss DD-3--Morley Mark Tremonti Wah

-Guitars-
Ibanez ART-100
Ibanez S-470
#15
Listen to some Dream Theater for some really broken rhythms. In almost all of their songs they change time signatures like 5 times. To answer you questions:
1. Just intuition and what sounds good.
2. Play them more and find a way that works for you for counting them.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#16
Quote by FlyingPooooo
Nope, its not got the guitar pro opened up on it. Not the first breakdown I think its the second one around 1:40.

Ill try out meshuggah as well, your right its just not natural to me yet.


Alright, those 30 seconds are in a different time signature.