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#1
Right, since I was last in here I've finally managed to get a small band together (me on bass, friend on guitar and a drummer). Now it was our guitarist's idea to find a rhythm guitarist to act as back-up singer too and I agreed it would make for a better sound to the band.

And so far- not one thing. We've had two auditionees, one who was just 16 and the other was more my age (22). The older one was just not suited to the band but the reason we then didn't hire the other guy was his arrogant attitude.
Nearly all the musicians I've auditioned for bands or met who are under 18 years old are either horrifically arrogant or unbelievably shy, neither of which is particularly helpful. It's even more noticable in the classically trained musicians, including violinists (who've been playing since the age of 2 or something) who seem to be among the worst.

Can someone please tell me why young musicians are so full of themselves?!
#3
Being young myself im pretty shy when it comes to meeting new people... its annoying for us too. lol... But ill rather not be an arrogant basterd.
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#4
It depends, I've noticed this occasionally too.
Mainly it's because the young musicians haven't found the challenge that music can be yet. I was a lot more modest that some young musicians, but still pretty arrogant at around 15, thinking I was the boss, but the minute shit got real I straightened up, focused, began to put myself into context.

They'll learn one day, and if they don't they'll be shooting themselves in the foot.

Oh, also it's not just young musicians, my band (ages being, 17 (me), 19 and 20) hired a 27 year old guy to sing for us, turns out he decided he was playing rhythm guitar too...
Anyway, when he played guitar he either took the parts I was playing or just had some stupid insanely high gain tone when the song didn't call for it (blues-rock doesn't suit metal tones ) and he turned up not having learnt the songs, with the lyrics and an arrogant swagger thinking he could just read off the paper through everything.
Then when we had a gig (and things were getting serious) he bailed on us, shoving our work back weeks.

But yeah, it happens, unfortunately all you can do is wave past them and look harder!
The arrogant ones will put ads saying "Best guitarist ever looking for band", but the modest and serious artists are a bit harder to find, though worth it.
#5
i dunno about the arrogant part, but as for the shy part, probably cos they arnty good enough??
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#7
You can find arrogant and shy people of all ages.

In the musician's world, the arrogant guys don't last very long (nobody wants to play with them), and the shy guys who last turn out to be awesome musos. That's a generalisation.

And the shy guys are useful, whilst they don't actively contribute to the songwriting process (they don't need/want to), that's cool because the majority of songs are written by one or two members of a band, and the rest just put their interpretations on the song.

Edit: And if you think arrogant musos are bad, wait until you meet the musical elitist promoter.
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#8
Working in a music store, I get to meet all sorts of musicians of just about any age. I can tell you, as a few others already have, that you'll find arrogant musicians in just about every age range out there. In fact, one of the more arrogant guys I've ever met is one of the oldest guys that comes into the store regularly.

What I've noticed about them, is they are either not good in any sense, or they just aren't as good as they think. They talk themselves up, and while they might be decent enough musicians, you expect so much more at the end of the day.

Like AlanHB said, the arrogant ones don't last very long. I can think of a handful of kids I've seen in the store constantly that are always complaining about being kicked out of some band, or can't anyone to play with. But when you sit down and talk to them, you realize they are so full of themselves that its no wonder no one wants to put up with.
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#10
Quote by Fassa Albrecht


Can someone please tell me why young musicians are so full of themselves?!


That's easy, it's because they are 'young'. Arrogance generaly forms because people are inexperienced but don't wish to admit it, (probably because they are inexperienced at admitting inexperience) and unfortunately, youth generaly comes hand in hand with inexperience. Infact, inexperience can be classed as one of the definitions of youth.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Sep 1, 2010,
#11
Quote by iband48
Working in a music store, I get to meet all sorts of musicians of just about any age. I can tell you, as a few others already have, that you'll find arrogant musicians in just about every age range out there. In fact, one of the more arrogant guys I've ever met is one of the oldest guys that comes into the store regularly.


Yeah, this is something I noticed with older musicians. I played in a university band with a 50+ year old guy (mature student) who could be a douche. especially to the female bassist who'd gotten into the band after only playing for a year (me!).


What I've noticed about them, is they are either not good in any sense, or they just aren't as good as they think. They talk themselves up, and while they might be decent enough musicians, you expect so much more at the end of the day.


This is true.


Like AlanHB said, the arrogant ones don't last very long. I can think of a handful of kids I've seen in the store constantly that are always complaining about being kicked out of some band, or can't anyone to play with. But when you sit down and talk to them, you realize they are so full of themselves that its no wonder no one wants to put up with.


You'd think that they would sit up and realize that they are causing their own problem.

@AlanHB: Yes, music promoters are even worse. Also, good advice.

@rolandgunner: I don't know, maybe it's just the musicians around here. I've played with musicians from all over the country and my area seems to be full of elitists and musos.

@ post no.6: I just pull out my violin and ask them if they could self-teach themselves to play violin. That usually shuts them up.
#12
You'll get arrogance from any age group. I think a lot of the time young musicians are just really naive. There's a local band in my area who are sort of the same age as me (16-18) who genuinely think they'll be selling out stadiums soon. I don't mind it, it's a tad embarrasing but they're pretty good.

Also, there's nothing wrong with shy musicians. I was really shy with my band for the first couple of weeks but now we're all good mates and i'm more confident socially around them so don't base it all off first impressions. Shy musicians can be a blessing... seriously. If you already have one or two songwriters then it's a blessing when you get a person who will just come along and play whatever you want them to without a problem. I'm a bit like that I guess.
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#13
Quote by rocknroll93
i dunno about the arrogant part, but as for the shy part, probably cos they arnty good enough??


Im not arrogant, im pretty shy, but i know i picked the guitar up quite naturally. I just dont blurt it out all the time and boast about being better than someone... whats the point? Its not going to get you anywhere and people with think your a dick. So what you said there is total bullshit tbh man...
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#14
m a young musician: very shy i think its part of being a musician: but there are a few down to earth non shy guitarists lol
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#15
arrogance appears in any age group...its just at its peak at a younger age

which is exactly the smae with shyness
#16
Quote by rolandgunner
You're meeting the wrong musicians In my expierience the better someone is as an musician the nicer he is as a person.

i really have to agree with u on this one if you've read the interviews of van halen, tony iommi, and other legendary guitarists they are very humble
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#17
The question answers itself really...
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Don't tell me what can be done, either.



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#19
(Before I say anything,im 14 years old myself,but i must agree that lots of musicians my age are a bunch of asses)
I think its partly cause now days everybody has to have everything handed to them,Example
modelling amps with built in effects, and nobody appreciates what music is (im not about to go on a justin bieber rant) but now theres Itunes,limewire,all this bullshit etc etc, when from what im told,you would have to save up lots of money to buy a record or hear it on the radio,instead of listning to whateve you want whenever you want
#20
Quote by jonnycrue1985
(Before I say anything,im 14 years old myself,but i must agree that lots of musicians my age are a bunch of asses)
I think its partly cause now days everybody has to have everything handed to them,Example
modelling amps with built in effects, and nobody appreciates what music is (im not about to go on a justin bieber rant) but now theres Itunes,limewire,all this bullshit etc etc, when from what im told,you would have to save up lots of money to buy a record or hear it on the radio,instead of listning to whateve you want whenever you want

What does that have to do with arrogance? And Itunes is a great option, and that's coming from someone who loves CD art. You're still paying for the music, so whats the problem? Its also cheaper so more people can buy it (remember there is no tax).

But as to youth being arrogant, I agree. I'm 18 and I've seen it everywhere. People drop by my dorm to hear me playing and then to play themselves. For the most part, they just shred a small solo, look like they just blew up the world, and leave. Its ridiculous. That's all kids do now a days, is shred. But the shy part is understandable. I'm a pretty shy guy myself, but once in a band setting that goes away. Live, I'm still working on.
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#21
Because, kids are dumb, are easily manipulated, tricked into believing silly things, modern media has a huge impact on kids nowadays, media says that religion is not cool, that you can't insult anyone cause it's racists, you have to be perfect and if your not your a loser.

The kids don't stand for anything, they don't believe in anything but themselves, they don't have something or someone to look to, just themselves, which doesn't help the matter any.

Plus, their moma prolly didn't teach them any manners when they were young, that's prolly the main reason they are such arrogant punks.
#23
Quote by ethan_hanus
Because, kids are dumb, are easily manipulated, tricked into believing silly things, modern media has a huge impact on kids nowadays, media says that religion is not cool, that you can't insult anyone cause it's racists, you have to be perfect and if your not your a loser.

The kids don't stand for anything, they don't believe in anything but themselves, they don't have something or someone to look to, just themselves, which doesn't help the matter any.

Plus, their moma prolly didn't teach them any manners when they were young, that's prolly the main reason they are such arrogant punks.


on behalf of us 'kids' that in itself came as rather arrogant dont you think? steriotyping all of us as dumb kids who have no thoughts of their own.
#24
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#25
yea im 14 so im sure i would be kind of arrogant, but i try to act down to earth around people. When someone tells me im really good after i play them something i like just say a small thanks or something, i really try to avoid seeming arrogant.
#26
In my experance anyone who thinks there a good player is arrogant. Unforchantly with younger players there always surronded by younger listener's. these people tell them they are soo good bla bla bla feeding there ego untell the day comes they think they are a god of guitar.

guitar teachers are worse if not as bad as younger musicans tho.
A painter paints pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
#27
Don't confuse immaturity with arrogance. They're two separate things.

I don't think teenage musicians are necessarily any more arrogant than older musicians, but they are much more immature. Immaturity isn't the same as arrogance, but it does make the arrogance even more pronounced.

(BTW, if it matters, I'm well over 30.)
Last edited by drumwolf at Sep 6, 2010,
#28
It's because the arrogant one don't last. They don't get into bands, no one goes to their shows, and no one wants to be around them.

I remember being 16 and thinking that I was going to play one genre of music forever, and not realizing that everyone else wanted to play a different genre of music. You just have to evolve and embrace different things and find your niche withing a community, not specifically your genre.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
Last edited by rooster456 at Sep 8, 2010,
#29
Quote by cta-joey
In my experance anyone who thinks there a good player is arrogant. Unforchantly with younger players there always surronded by younger listener's. these people tell them they are soo good bla bla bla feeding there ego untell the day comes they think they are a god of guitar.

guitar teachers are worse if not as bad as younger musicans tho.

i don't get this, i'm not going to sit here and say "im the best there ever was" but i didn't spend the last 15 years to suck at my instrument. i know my limits and im constantly working to improve what i need to but to be overly humble about it is unnecessary.

and no, im not a teenager.
#30
Quote by z4twenny
i don't get this, i'm not going to sit here and say "im the best there ever was" but i didn't spend the last 15 years to suck at my instrument. i know my limits and im constantly working to improve what i need to but to be overly humble about it is unnecessary.

and no, im not a teenager.


you've spent the last 15 years playing so its quite possible you are very good.
now...when you tell someone about how good you are do you say:

"im so awesome, i can improvise all along the fretboard and shred and all that stuff. been playing 15 years so i know a really lot etc..."

or do you say

"im ok...i know how to improvise decently and i can play reasonably fast. i have been playing 15 years so i think im quite experienced etc..."

i know im exagerating but some people actually do say these things (the first one).

obviously im not saying that you say any of these as i have no idea what you say im simply using what you said as an example when people who are experienced can be arrogant
#31
I'm 18, so I imagine I still fall in the "those 'dern kids" (that was an old man voice :P) category, and you might think I'm an arrogant punk, but you've gotta keep in mind, us youngsters just got out of high school (or are still attending.) I'm not sure how it is anywhere else in the world, but in my neck of the woods high school is ludicrously competitive. If you aren't number one, everyone sees you as number two. And I know for a fact that I could say to myself "Well, you may be able to lift 500 pounds, but lets both stand behind a microphone and see who doesn't botch their way through 'Icky Thump'. So I imagine that the 'arrogance' is actually competitiveness.

Just my two cents
#32
To answer this question, we first have to examine a number of factors.

1. They're TEENAGERS. This is enough said, when you were 16 didn't you think you knew everything and the "old people" didn't know anything or "understand" you? It's a common thing, they'll grow out of it.

2. Look at the high school cliques these days. It's not just the jocks and the nerds. It's become so much more. You have jocks,preps,emo,goth,"scene",nerds,metal heads,gangsters,and idiots (white people that listen to rap and try to act like a gang member). Depending on the clique, the attitude will change. Maybe for the better, usually for the worse.

3. They're the best guitar player out of all their friends, who probably own a cheap beginner guitar and a small practice amp.

There's so many others but these are the biggest. Consider them and deal with it accordingly. And honestly, I would much rather have someone that's really shy in my band. Reason being, that's something you can work on rather quickly and that your band and the shy guy both acknowledge is a problem. With arrogance and bad attitudes, that person typically doesn't WANT to change. And you don't want to deal with it for more than 10 minutes anyway. Just my thought.
#33
The guys who are arrogant are that way because they're used to be on top of their game and everybody else's. They aren't used to being around people that are as good as/better than them.

The ones that are shy are that way because they're used to being at the bottom of the ranks. This was me. I was surrounded by better musicians, and because of it, I thought I sucked, and I didn't want other people to hear my play, and I was really hesitant when I joined my first band. I just did it because my friend was in it and they didn't know anybody else. I still feel those affects today, as although I consider myself a competent player, I'm nowhere near where I could be if I'd never had that shyness at the start.

The shy ones are easy to win over to your cause. Just encourage them. A lot. And make sure you talk with them about stuff other than music. My band just got a new guy, he's really shy, so after practice we play call of duty and halo and shit with him on our drummer's xbox, make him feel part of the family, and he's quickly warming up, more willing to take chances, and he's cracking jokes with us as well, which is good, because if you can't take a joke, you're gonna be one miserable person in my band.
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#34
Most kids pick up a guitar because they think if they can bang out Avenged Sevenfold or Blink-182 (used to be Smells Like Teen Spirit) they're an instant pussy magnet and a cool dude. Plus the idea of joining an ACTUAL band that wants you to play a whole song is terrifying so they pull out some bluster and hope all goes well.
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#35
Quote by loose bowels
Most kids pick up a guitar because they think if they can bang out Avenged Sevenfold or Blink-182 (used to be Smells Like Teen Spirit) they're an instant pussy magnet and a cool dude. Plus the idea of joining an ACTUAL band that wants you to play a whole song is terrifying so they pull out some bluster and hope all goes well.

idk the though of joining a band has never done much for me idk, im weird

i used to be a little bit arrogant, but not to the extent that some others can be: id discovered how to do shitty pent solos (im still a lover of the pentatonic (SRV lover), but i now add in the 4 and 6 sometimes and play solos without wanking), and felt on top of the world when i did crappy hammer and pull of licks with a shitty tone.

i think a lot of guitarists go through it, before they mature musically. if youre still like it after a couple of years then its bad, but from what ive seen a lot of people do it.
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#36
I don't think there is anything wrong with being shy. My bands lead guitarist is really shy (not with us) but in general he's really reserved and modest. He's a fantastic musician though and can really crank out some good catchy riffs for the music.

He's not loud or flashy and thats find with us. He has the substance which is what matters most.

My experience with arrogant musicians(in my musical career in my area) is that they tend to be that way to hide their lack of substance. Almost like, if they act like they're "the shit" then they will be percieved as "the shit." therefore they will become "the shit." I guess for them its easier to pretend than to bust ass and actually become an optimal player.
#37
I was never that way with guitar, but In highschool I thought I was a hot-sh*t trombone player.

In a way, comparatively to the other trombonists in my school, I was pretty good. I always got the 1st trombone parts, got called on to play certain solos and such. In a way it fed my ego, but made me feel good that I was accomplishing something.

The downside was that I could often be a dick to the other players. I would assume they couldn't play a line, or a certain high or low note. I found it really hard to be humble.

I got my reality check after highschool, when I played with different ensembles, I wasn't getting those 1st parts anymore, I was getting 2nd and 3d parts. There were so many great players, who were much more experienced than me, and very humble about it. I quickly learned that It wasn't about competing with the other musicians, it was about doing what was best for the ensemble.

I still think of myself as a solid trombonist, but I've definitely dropped the "hot-sh*t" attitude.
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#38
I'm 17 so I probably belong to the "kids" category, but whatever. I don't think I ever acted arrogantly in any way and I think it's because I just never took music for granted. There are people like this of all ages, not only 12-20 yrs old :/
#40
Quote by '93
you've spent the last 15 years playing so its quite possible you are very good.
now...when you tell someone about how good you are do you say:

"im so awesome, i can improvise all along the fretboard and shred and all that stuff. been playing 15 years so i know a really lot etc..."

or do you say

"im ok...i know how to improvise decently and i can play reasonably fast. i have been playing 15 years so i think im quite experienced etc..."

i know im exagerating but some people actually do say these things (the first one).

obviously im not saying that you say any of these as i have no idea what you say im simply using what you said as an example when people who are experienced can be arrogant


I usually tell them I'm pretty damn good, but then I almost immediately follow that with a story about me being put in my place by much better guitarists.

also, I agree with the 'immaturity' post from earlier.

There's a fine line between the confidence neccessary to take the stage and preform your set with good crowd interraction (on the preformer's end), and carrying that over into your daily life with an "I'm the shit" mentality.

Case and point, everyone in my band is really good at what they do, and our ages range from 18-26. Our singer sounds like a better version of Amy Lee, our drummer is a damn swiss watch with great taste and dynamics, everyone brings a lot to the table. We can still give each other shit though, and no one takes themselves too seriously. I'm not going to get butt hurt because no one else liked a riff I wrote because the whole point is to make good music, not just be a cool guy with a guitar, and it takes a BAND not an individual to do that.
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