#1
Hey guys,

I have difficulty switching strings while alternate picking something fairly quickly. For example, in the following diagram I struggle going from the upstroke on the e string to the downstroke on the a string.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5---------------------------------------------------------------5-5-5-5-5-5-5------
-----------------------6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0------------------------


All these notes are eighth notes that are to be played around quarter note=252. The region I have trouble is the transition from the last open E to the D on the A string. As you can see, I don't have trouble when the picking direction is the same as the direction I change strings. Does that make any sense?

If anyone else has faced this problem before, how did you get past it? Is it simply a matter of me practicing that motion over and over again?
#3
you could try economy picking (i think thats what its called), when you dont alternate pick when it moves you away from the string youre going to change to
#4
@((HeyOh)) I guess I could try that. I have watched videos of the guitarist play this and he just alternate picks right through it. Just wondering if there were any easier ways to attack it.

@(sic)duckmaggot: Nice call. It is Bat Country
#5
Well, the good news is that you've got the problem figured out. Oftentimes that's half the battle, right there. No quick fix, unfortunately. Just keep practicing it over and over. The good news is that it's a fundamental, so as you improve it, you should see improvements cropping up all over the place in different riffs and licks.
#6
Ironically, I had to go strict alt to do that stuff. I was always an econ picker, and still am, but switch over when in "Emporer" mode. I lock the wrist and move from the elbow when I'm really pushing my limits. The practice slow rule really worked well for trem picking from string to string.
#8
Do not "economy pick" aka "I don't know wtf I am doing".

String changin when alt picking is 50% of the problem. Master it, you are set for life. Google Paul Gilbert lick (or better buy his video "Intense Rock"), practice it slowly paying attention to what you doing and you will get there.
Even Al DiMeola had problems with it, if you listen carefully to his early records, you an hear it.
#10
Quote by mdeeRocks
Do not "economy pick" aka "I don't know wtf I am doing".

String changin when alt picking is 50% of the problem. Master it, you are set for life. Google Paul Gilbert lick (or better buy his video "Intense Rock"), practice it slowly paying attention to what you doing and you will get there.
Even Al DiMeola had problems with it, if you listen carefully to his early records, you an hear it.
Some of the fastest, most accurate players in the world economy pick. It's a perfectly legitimate method of picking.
The guy's a beast, but he uses 8s. So he's shit.
-juckfush on Alex Hutchings.
#11
I learnt alternate picking myself, i didnt really know much about it or research the technique and shit like that, and ive only just discovered ecnomony picking to find out i economy pick anyway.. It's just a matter of learning to alternate pick to the best of your ability. When learning a new song, i downpick mostly then once im comfortable, stick alternate picking in.

Oh, and to whoever was saying economy picking is incorrect or w/e, i'd say its the most effective way to alternate pick.
Last edited by UnseenBucket at Sep 2, 2010,
#12
Quote by mdeeRocks
String changin when alt picking is 50% of the problem. Master it, you are set for life.

agree
Quote by mdeeRocks
"economy pick" aka "I don't know wtf I am doing".

ridiculous.... sometimes "economy" and alternate picking overlap (meaning you'd play the same figure identically using either method). Sometimes they don't.

Both approaches have unique advantages. Don't get roped into thinking you have to alternate pick at all times... but you should learn how to alternate pick correctly as part of your skill set without a doubt.
#13
Quote by kenfrazee@gmail
Ironically, I had to go strict alt to do that stuff. I was always an econ picker, and still am, but switch over when in "Emporer" mode. I lock the wrist and move from the elbow when I'm really pushing my limits. The practice slow rule really worked well for trem picking from string to string.


That's just bad technique, your technique should be the same when slow and fast.

Quote by mdeeRocks
Do not "economy pick" aka "I don't know wtf I am doing".

String changin when alt picking is 50% of the problem. Master it, you are set for life. Google Paul Gilbert lick (or better buy his video "Intense Rock"), practice it slowly paying attention to what you doing and you will get there.
Even Al DiMeola had problems with it, if you listen carefully to his early records, you an hear it.


Again with this; economy picking is no better or worse in any way than alternate picking, it's just a different way of spending your effort when playing.

Also the Paul Gilbert lick isn't some kind of magic bullet for picking, it only helps with the PG style outside picking ideas, if you only practice it in the one variation your inside picking will suffer.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
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#14
Just a matter of practice, I guess.

I used to do this:
E 000333666
A 333666
D 333666
A 333666
E 333666

etc
This is the part where you are supposed to be amazed by the awesomeness of my sig.
#15
I use alt and econ at different times for different purposes, but am primarily econ. I don't think that represents bad technique. Some patterns or sequence of notes seem to lend themselves to a particular method, whether it happens consiously or not.
#16
Figure out where you're having trouble and practice it.


That's just bad technique, your technique should be the same when slow and fast.

Not necessarily.

If you can't get past a certain point with wrist picking i don't see a problem with using elbow as long as it's not being strained. If it works to get what you desire then it isn't bad technique.
#17
Quote by cringer
agree

ridiculous.... sometimes "economy" and alternate picking overlap (meaning you'd play the same figure identically using either method). Sometimes they don't.

Both approaches have unique advantages. Don't get roped into thinking you have to alternate pick at all times... but you should learn how to alternate pick correctly as part of your skill set without a doubt.

What I am saying is that you need to learn to alt pick before you even think about economy picking. It's advanced technique and if you can't comprehend and execute regular alt picking, your "economy" picking will be exactly a version of "wtf I am doing?" aka random picking. People often use "economy picking" when they can't play licks which are normally alt picked.

By they way start Paul Gilbert lick with an upstroke, here is a different variation, also if one understands how alt picking works he can create variations used to practice all possible scenarios.
Last edited by mdeeRocks at Sep 3, 2010,
#18
I don't see why you wouldn't just play the lick the same way but practice it starting on up and down strokes. Best of both worlds.
#19
Don't pick from the elbow dude, it's a horrible idea.

This is coming from a guy that can tremolo pick semi-complicated lines for atleast an hour, or more, strait.

The elbow is controlled by big, strong muscles for a wide reach and impressive strength, though unruly. The wrist is made of many fine muscles, for, basically, accuracy and agility.

Unless your looking to hit the strings REALLY hard (which I do sometimes, that requires a little elbow motion) you will get much better results just putting that entire idea behind you.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#20
Quote by mdeeRocks
What I am saying is that you need to learn to alt pick before you even think about economy picking. It's advanced technique and if you can't comprehend and execute regular alt picking, your "economy" picking will be exactly a version of "wtf I am doing?" aka random picking. People often use "economy picking" when they can't play licks which are normally alt picked.


So why exactly should anyone alternate pick all the licks that other people would? Sure the whole point of economy picking is to make things easier for those that prefer it and if you prefer it why would you alternate pick in the first place? I myself economy pick a few things that I'm sure other people would do with alternate picking because I find that the pickstrokes fall in a much easier pattern with economy picking.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
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#21
Quote by mdeeRocks
What I am saying is that you need to learn to alt pick before you even think about economy picking.

I happen to agree that a beginner should learn how to alt pick first and separately from other ways of picking. Not because one is more advanced than the other - but because it's very tough to develop good technique if you don't concentrate on one thing at a time. Learning both simultaneously - especially for a beginner - is confusing to the brain.

Quote by mdeeRocks
It's advanced technique and if you can't comprehend and execute regular alt picking, your "economy" picking will be exactly a version of "wtf I am doing?" aka random picking. People often use "economy picking" when they can't play licks which are normally alt picked.

What is "random picking"? It kinda seems like your just repeating the same theories that you bought into somewhere along the line.

Alt picking is just a skill to master and apply as needed... that's it.
It's not a measuring stick of anything else.
#22
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
So why exactly should anyone alternate pick all the licks that other people would?

Tone and feel.

I do not say alternate pick everything as a rule, you can play Gilbert stuff using "economy" picking as far as I am concerned. I am saying, learn to alternate pick properly (to a decent level) before you try economy picking. People I run into (beginners) usually use "economy picking" as an excuse and shortcut for (badly) playing some licks - then don't have any control about what they are doing - it's pretty obvious that when someone's asking a question like above and getting advice to "economy pick" it, the person who gives such (bad) advice has very little understanding of what alternate picking and economy picking is.

Same with picking from elbow, this is almost dangerous, but have been addressed a couple of posts above.
#23
Quote by cringer



What is "random picking"? It kinda seems like your just repeating the same theories that you bought into somewhere along the line.

Alt picking is just a skill to master and apply as needed... that's it.
It's not a measuring stick of anything else.

Random picking is exactly what it is, random.

These are not theories I bought into, these are observations after many years of playing and teaching people.
#24
Quote by mdeeRocks
People I run into (beginners) usually use "economy picking" as an excuse and shortcut for (badly) playing some licks - then don't have any control about what they are doing - it's pretty obvious that when someone's asking a question like above and getting advice to "economy pick" it, the person who gives such (bad) advice has very little understanding of what alternate picking and economy picking is.


I think you're mistaking "lacking control" for just being a beginner. Of course beginners are going to lack control, they haven't practiced enough to have control; if they had control they wouldn't be be beginners would they? Playing with alternate picking doesn't automatically mean you have more control over what you're doing at all.

As for people giving advice to economy pick... I think a lot of people see the pure mechanical benefits of economy picking in some circumstances and just assume it's faster and easier so that's what you should do without thinking about it and that's why people so often say "economy pick it"; it's nothing to do with a lack of understanding of the technique, it's a whole different issue.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#25
See dudes kicking ass all sorts of ways. It's about how much work they've put into it. My particular ideosyncracies work well for me, and I don't tend to play "normal" licks. Thing is, I have to play everyday to maintian it. I sometimes wonder if less practice would be necessary had I learned this or that technique differently. This curiousity is what leads me to strive for proficiency in diff picking styles. I hadn't done strict alt in years, and it's been a pain in the ass trying to get it back.
P.s.Trem picking- I know the elbow thing is a bit ghetto, but I simply can't articulate at the wrist that fast.
#26
It's perfectly easy and fine to pick from the elbow AS LONG AS YOU DONT TENSE IT UP. I can get as fast with my elbow as i can with my wrist with no tensing up at all.

So, with the movement of the elbow joint being a natural movement i don't see the problem with using it if you can get speed from it as long as you're not straining yourself. Anyone that says this tenseless method of elbow picking is 'bad' is full of shít.
#27
I started getting into Nile licks a few years back and looked down one day and saw my whole forearm moving with locked wrist. I think I was doing that before I was aware of it- haha. I find myself tensing bad if I'm not warmed up or haven't played for a while. Just another wrinkle to iron out after I've been distracted by work or Xbox too long.