Poll: Has science gone too far?
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View poll results: Has science gone too far?
Yes
11 9%
No
109 91%
Voters: 120.
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#1
Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis is a 2006 book by Richard Lynn claiming to represent the largest collection and review of the global cognitive ability data, by nine global regions, surveying 620 published studies from around the world, with a total of 813,778 tested individuals.

Lynn's meta-analysis lists East Asians (105), Europeans (99), Inuit (91), Southeast Asians and Amerindians (87 each), Pacific Islanders (85), South Asians/North Africans (including Middle Easterners) (84), Non-Bushmen Sub-Saharan Africans (67), Australian Aborigines (62), Bushmen and Pygmies (54), Homo Erectus (50), Apes (22), and Monkeys (12).[1][2][3]

Broadly speaking, Lynn estimates that about half of the IQ deficit of third world races can be explained by inadequate nutrition, while the other half is racially genetic. For example Lynn notes that while Africans living in Africa average IQ 67, African Americans living in the Southern United States (where European admixture is very low) average IQ 80. Lynn believes the latter figure represents their genotypic intelligence, while the IQs in Africa are stunted by malnutrition.

Ashkenazi Jews who Lynn classifies as South Asian/European hybrids, average 107-115 in the U.S. and Britain, and Ashkenazi Jews in Israel average 103[4]. Lynn argues that the U.S. Ashkenazis represent the elite who were intelligent enough to escape persecution in World War II. However not all American Ashkenazi Jews were from the elite: two million Ashkenazi Jews arrived in the U.S. between 1880 and 1920, the vast majority of whom were relatively poor when they arrived in the U.S.[5]


#2
Australia really isnt doing so well there.

I'd be inclined to ask what the test was like. Education styles will be different around the world and, for example, people will learn different things growing up in England than if they grew up as part of some Zulu tribe.
So I suspect that what people learn would make them think in different ways, so really I'd guess that its unfair to use the same test on all races and cultures.. (But I dont really know about this kinda stuff)

Too many factors could play a part in someones IQ other than race, which I dont think this guy has taken into account.
Last edited by -Reborn- at Sep 2, 2010,
#3
I don't trust anyone who doesn't understand what, "race," means.
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#4
I find it kind of depressing that the highest average IQ of any race is only 105.
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#7

I know some really dumb people of one race and really smart people of the same race.
For example I know some chinese dude who's the biggest idiot to ever walk the earth and I obviously know a lot of smart asians
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#9
Heheh, we're smarter than Americans

edit:
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Last edited by Gammas1 at Sep 2, 2010,
#10
Quote by Gammas1
Heheh, we're smarter than Americans

edit:


American school system is shit, I'll admit it. the public free education, at least. Universities over here do well in my opinion.

Plus we have the South, that's a huge handicap.


And @ Asians being yerrow.
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#11
Quote by tobysaurus
I find it kind of depressing that the highest average IQ of any race is only 105.


How is that depressing? IQ measuring works from a figure of 100 being about the average.


I voted no because science can never go to far.


fuck morality
#12
Quote by Avedas
How is that depressing? IQ measuring works from a figure of 100 being about the average.
fuck morality


Amen fellow countryman. Just curious OP, why the hell do you even question it? Is it because you think it might hurt some feelings?

I don't think it's racist to say that historically speaking, Africa hasn't really been known for it's technological advances. Difference between fact and racism.
Last edited by JC13 at Sep 2, 2010,
#13
Intelligence can vary between different groups of the same species. We have no trouble admitting that poodles are smarter than pugs, but when it comes to people we can't even consider the possibility. I'm not saying I trust this study, but I do think that it's possible that some ethnic groups maybe be, on average, smarter than others.
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#15
IQ testing is flawed anyway. The only thing it really measures is how good you are at doing IQ tests. The reason 'developed' races do better is because they're more likely to have done similar questions before.
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#16
I wouldn't say this is 'going too far', although I doubt the conclusion that this has anything to do with race. Australians, Americans and Europeans are all pretty much the same race (at least the majority of their populations), yet they have different average IQ's.
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#17
Quote by the bartender
I wouldn't say this is 'going too far', although I doubt the conclusion that this has anything to do with race. Australians, Americans and Europeans are all pretty much the same race (at least the majority of their populations), yet they have different average IQ's.


If you actually read the article, it doesn't specifically separate European Diaspora. I'm assuming you just glanced at the picture, but that doesn't contain as much information. It's the other ethnic groups present in those countries that affect it.
#18
I don't think it's a huge issue, you have to remember that a) IQ as measured on IQ tests is hardly the only measure of a persons cognitive functions, someone with a low IQ might be amazing at social interaction, which as all socially awkward nerds will know, can be very hard for people not skilled in it

and more importantly b) it's a statistical average, that means that there may be more intelligent asians then africans, but that doesn't mean that all asians are smarter then all black people, meaning that nobody should feel personally either insulted by this or proud about it.
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#19
Quote by JC13
If you actually read the article, it doesn't specifically separate European Diaspora. I'm assuming you just glanced at the picture, but that doesn't contain as much information. It's the other ethnic groups present in those countries that affect it.


Quote by wikipedia
Most of the estimated 22 million Australians are descended from colonial-era settlers and post-Federation immigrants from Europe, with almost 90% of the population being of European descent.


Quote by article
Lynn's meta-analysis lists East Asians (105), Europeans (99), Inuit (91), Southeast Asians and Amerindians (87 each), Pacific Islanders (85), South Asians/North Africans (including Middle Easterners) (84), Non-Bushmen Sub-Saharan Africans (67), Australian Aborigines (62), Bushmen and Pygmies (54), Homo Erectus (50), Apes (22), and Monkeys (12).[1][2][3]


even if the other 10% of the australian population would be monkeys (which is doubtable), that would still leave an average of 90,3. therefore, I call shenanigans.
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#20
Quote by the bartender
even if the other 10% of the australian population would be monkeys (which is doubtable), that would still leave an average of 90,3. therefore, I call shenanigans.


Your math is correct, but I think there's a possibility that the map is actually only showing the indigenous populations. I didn't think about that until after I posted, sorry. Though it'd be nice if the threadstarter had posted the link, so we could see for ourselves. Oh well.
#21
For all those dissing Australia, the map is divided by race, not nationality.
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#22
It's not surprising that Australian Aborigines would do badly on IQ tests, although I doubt that's genetic. Aboriginal culture is that different from ours that people brought up in it often seem to be unable to function in a European sort of society. And I know that because I watched a documentary once.

Also, I doubt the validity of the test. For a start, being a black American still can have disadvantages as far as education and money and whatnot, jumping to the conclusion of it being genetic seems a bit unscientific. And Australia isn't made of idiots.
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#23
Everyone knows that black people are unevolved anyway. This study doesnt show anything surprising

(Just so everyone is clear, thats a joke).


I didnt find it surprising that areas with good education and good diets did better in an IQ test than areas that dont.
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#24
Jebus Christ average of 60? That's impossible, below 75 you are literally retarded and there's no way that many people have such low IQ
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#26
Industrialised nations go up about 3 IQ points on average every 10 years, most likely due to educational standards. It all adds up, so there's bound to be differences across the world. It has absolutely nothing to do with racial demographics.
#27
Quote by CrackAddict2000
Jebus Christ average of 60? That's impossible, below 75 you are literally retarded and there's no way that many people have such low IQ

A bunch of people who are likely illiterate and uneducated in basic Mathematics are not going to fare too well.
#28
Quote by tobysaurus
I find it kind of depressing that the highest average IQ of any race is only 105.

That's a good thing! IQs are designed so the average is 100. They have to be readjusted all the time because the average IQ actually increases over time.
#29
Yeah that's true, education is sucha big factor in this. If they want a proper research they should give everyone around the world the same education and check again but alas that's not going to happen.
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#30
Quote by JC13
Your math is correct, but I think there's a possibility that the map is actually only showing the indigenous populations. I didn't think about that until after I posted, sorry. Though it'd be nice if the threadstarter had posted the link, so we could see for ourselves. Oh well.


ah I see, that would explain it .

Quote by CrackAddict2000
Yeah that's true, education is sucha big factor in this. If they want a proper research they should give everyone around the world the same education and check again but alas that's not going to happen.


I agree with this, which is exactly why I think the results of this study can't be accurate.
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#32
An IQ test? Really? I thought everyone knew how those things were unreliable. They test your ability to do certain problems, not to find your intelligence. Think about 'intelligence' too, how the hell do you even define that? A desert nomad is much more intelligent than me when it comes to survival in the desert.
Also, education, as already mentioned.
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#33
I think it would be theoretically 80 years before any of my friends are average and over a century after which I will definitely be dead before I am yet the only difference between us an other people that I can think for this reason is having a great education (there are plenty of smart blacks/asians/gingers etc amongst us), which seems to be far more important than race.


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#34
It's all balls. It's clearly all social convention and stereotypes that actually cause this sort of thing.
If people expect you to be stupider, you will grow up stupider. Racism reinforcing racism..

Did the study tell you that african american IQ's are rising at a faster rate than white IQ? Almost as if the gradual decline of racism is letting them catch up.


@guitarxo: I think with IQ, 100 is always the average...Like, even if people get smarter they change the test to make 100 the average.

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Last edited by Jiggzy.UK at Sep 2, 2010,
#35
who cares, the asians are better than us all.
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#36
Once again, Japan > Us.

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#37
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I
@guitarxo: I think with IQ, 100 is always the average...Like, even if people get smarter they change the test to make 100 the average.

I don't understand why they would do that, though. Doesn't it mess the data up if it's true that people are getting smarter? Sorry if this is a really obvious question or something.
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#38
Nah not really, IQ is dependent on environment and cultural context. Shit happens and Asians are probably telepaths.
#39
Could TS please give the source of this research?
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#40
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who cares, the asians are better than us all.


And all they do with their superior intelligence is make strange porn and sink each others boats.

And kill whales and dolphins as well.
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