#1
So recently I've entered the recording world and I decided to experience the lower side of metal and I bought myself an Agile Intrepid pro 8 string...

To me bass is very important to my song writing and I need something to cover the low end of my guitar..

My 8 string is tuned to F# so likewise I'd like to do so with a bass

I'm not a native bass player so I'm stuck, seeing as how I'm a one man unit I need to take helm of the bottom end

What Do I need in order to achieve my goal?

4 string? 5 string? 6 string?

What Gauge strings Do I need?

any other information would help also

Thanks!
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#2
You mean the low F# on the E string an octave down?

Any bass would do it, you'd just need some super thick strings. and maybe file out the nut a bit so the string fit nicer. by super thick I mean thicker than 1.30. unless you like it in flopsville
"Whats that noise??"

"... Jazz"
#3
Quote by DiamondOfBlood
So recently I've entered the recording world and I decided to experience the lower side of metal and I bought myself an Agile Intrepid pro 8 string...

To me bass is very important to my song writing and I need something to cover the low end of my guitar..

My 8 string is tuned to F# so likewise I'd like to do so with a bass

I'm not a native bass player so I'm stuck, seeing as how I'm a one man unit I need to take helm of the bottom end

What Do I need in order to achieve my goal?

4 string? 5 string? 6 string?

What Gauge strings Do I need?

any other information would help also

Thanks!


I'd recommend a 6 string tuned a step down. Medium gauge strings are good enough to handle a slight detuning with the right setup.

If you want suggestions for a good 6 string bass then a Peavey Grind 6 is a low-price-but-good-enough 6 string bass.
#4
Shit... Well Dick Lövgren (Meshuggah - Bassist) uses 5 strings, but I don't know what he tunes it to...


Quote by Spaz91
I'd recommend a 6 string tuned a step down.


So it would be tuned to A D G C F Bb/A#?
Last edited by Dream Floyd at Sep 2, 2010,
#5
I'm talking super low metal F#..I'm terrible when it comes to the theory side I just know the notes..what gauge would you recommend?
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#6
It mostly depends on the gauge of string, the nut and your amp. You could probably do it on any half decent bass as long as you set it up properly. The strings need to be very thick. Try Rotosound Drop Zone Plus strings (RS66LH+) maybe (regular Drop Zones won't cut it), they're designed for F# tuning. The nut will need to be filed so the strings can physically sit in the slots. Your amp needs to be powerful enough and have enough low end oomph to be able to reproduce the extra low frequencies

EDIT: Woah, a lot of people replied while I was typing
#7
well to clarify, I'm using the DI method of recording and I plan on running the bass through a sansamp paradriver
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#8
I don't know why none of you have mentioned scale length yet. Sure he can tune down on a 34'' or 35'' scale bass to F# but none of the notes will be properly intonated with that thick of a string. The notes at the first, second, and third frets will go very sharp when fretted, and I'm guessing things probably wouldn't fare much better at the 12th fret.

I think you would need an extended scale bass designed for being tuned that low. A friend of mine has a 35'' scale fretless 5 string and the farthest he can go down with a .135 gauge string is G#. Anything lower than that and it's so floppy that it's smacking the pickup covers and popping constantly.

The reason your 8 string can play F#3 with proper intonation is because it has an extended scale length (probably 27'' or 28.5'' depending on the type). Basically the problem you have is like trying to tune a 24.75'' guitar down to F#. The length of the fretboard vs the thickness of the strings prevents you from attaining perfect intonation on every fret. I would look into a 5 or 6 string with at the very least a 35'' scale.
#9
Quote by StringsOfSeven
I don't know why none of you have mentioned scale length yet. Sure he can tune down on a 34'' or 35'' scale bass to F# but none of the notes will be properly intonated with that thick of a string. The notes at the first, second, and third frets will go very sharp when fretted, and I'm guessing things probably wouldn't fare much better at the 12th fret.

I think you would need an extended scale bass designed for being tuned that low. A friend of mine has a 35'' scale fretless 5 string and the farthest he can go down with a .135 gauge string is G#. Anything lower than that and it's so floppy that it's smacking the pickup covers and popping constantly.

The reason your 8 string can play F#3 with proper intonation is because it has an extended scale length (probably 27'' or 28.5'' depending on the type). Basically the problem you have is like trying to tune a 24.75'' guitar down to F#. The length of the fretboard vs the thickness of the strings prevents you from attaining perfect intonation on every fret. I would look into a 5 or 6 string with at the very least a 35'' scale.


I'm looking at the specs for my 8 string and the scale length is 28.625...it's a pretty big guitar..link to my guitar for more information: http://www.rondomusic.com/intrepidprodual828ebnat.html
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#10
^ yeah so super thick strings file the nut out and I'd suggest a fiver. Set it up right, its not hard to do and there should be plenty of tutorials if you just search bar "Bass Set Up"
"Whats that noise??"

"... Jazz"
#11
^ (In response to OP) Well that's the thing. See how your lowest string came stock as a .72? If I were to put a .72 on my RG7321 with a 25.5 scale length and tune it to F# the tension of the string would probably not be too bad and the open note would sound fine, but the intonation would be horrid. It's basically the same dilemma only on bass. In order to go lower with thicker strings, your scale length has to get longer to compensate for the tension on the string when notes are fretted.
#12
Quote by StringsOfSeven
^ (In response to OP) Well that's the thing. See how your lowest string came stock as a .72? If I were to put a .72 on my RG7321 with a 25.5 scale length and tune it to F# the tension of the string would probably not be too bad and the open note would sound fine, but the intonation would be horrid. It's basically the same dilemma only on bass. In order to go lower with thicker strings, your scale length has to get longer to compensate for the tension on the string when notes are fretted.


well based off of your information this is sort of what I've come up with, I plan on going with a 5 shooter which is here:http://www.rondomusic.com/HXB405NATSPALT.HTML and it is 35" and seeing as how the string gauge is smaller than whats is required I would just fit the bass with these:http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ernie-Ball-2821-Power-Slinky-5String-Bass-Strings-?sku=100872 in which the thickest string would then come out to.135..prepping me for F#

sound fairly good? I don't wanna break bank on this..that's for sure...
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#14
Quote by Aidonius
The warwick dark lord comes tuned in drop F# and it has something like a .175 for it. it's also 35" scale, for the string tension
Here http://www.warwickbass.com/modules/produkte/produkt.php?katID=14460&cl=EN


yeah I came across that guitar but it looks like it's hard to find...musicians friend lists it as discontinued..cant seem to find a price on it either...
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#15
Quote by DiamondOfBlood
yeah I came across that guitar but it looks like it's hard to find...musicians friend lists it as discontinued..cant seem to find a price on it either...


If you do find one you can bet your left testicle that it'll bare a four figure price tag.
#17
Quote by Ziphoblat
If you do find one you can bet your left testicle that it'll bare a four figure price tag.


I found something on price and thats way out of my budget...no way
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#18
Basically, you want the longest scale length you can find, and if possible a 5 string (6 strings are usually with an extra treble string, not an extra at the bass end), the thickest string gague you can get.
#19
Quote by Sabscope
Basically, you want the longest scale length you can find, and if possible a 5 string (6 strings are usually with an extra treble string, not an extra at the bass end), the thickest string gague you can get.

so far the longest I've found is 35, I posted a link a few posts back of what I'm considering
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#20
FYI, last I heard is that the guy from Meshuggah tunes UP to F#, to match the guitars.
Quote by skater dan0
Damn you and your ninja-like modding
#23
Quote by fleajr_1412
FYI, last I heard is that the guy from Meshuggah tunes UP to F#, to match the guitars.


are you talking ABOVE standard tuning?
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#24
Quote by Aidonius
Sorry if I was unclear. I meant the warwick as an example.

Anyway, you could probably buy a 35" scale bass and throw some of these on it: http://www.amazon.com/Rotosound-RS66LH-Stainless-Guitar-Strings/dp/B002CVUNN4



well I guess since I have a string gauge figured out I'd have to look into what bass to buy but I'm at a loss for how many strings I should get..I know I like to do a lot with my bass lines but hm..I guess it's just a matter of artistic taste?

EDIT: think a 34" scale would be okay? I see a cheap one that I have my eye on...
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
Last edited by DiamondOfBlood at Sep 2, 2010,
#25
Quote by Spaz91
I'd recommend a 6 string tuned a step down. Medium gauge strings are good enough to handle a slight detuning with the right setup.

If you want suggestions for a good 6 string bass then a Peavey Grind 6 is a low-price-but-good-enough 6 string bass.


As an owner of one, I don't really agree with you. I'm sending it back to manufacturer for the second time in two months. Awaiting confirmation of a refund at the moment. The quality control on my one was just awful =/
My Gear:

Bass:
Peavey Grind NTB 6 (6 string)
Cort Action Bass (4 string)
Roland Cube 30 amp
Boss ODB3 Overdrive

Guitar:
Ibanez JS100
Peavey Vyper amp
Korg Toneworks AX3000G multieffects
Dunlop Cry Baby 535Q Wah
Big Muff
#26
Just a question, what are you going to be playing this through?

A quick calculation has F#0 at 23.12 Hz.

I don't even have a cab or combo that is rated below 31 Hz which is around a B0.
#27
Quote by DiamondOfBlood
are you talking ABOVE standard tuning?


Yes, using lighter gauged strings I'd expect.
Quote by skater dan0
Damn you and your ninja-like modding
#28
Quote by Quintex
Just a question, what are you going to be playing this through?

A quick calculation has F#0 at 23.12 Hz.

I don't even have a cab or combo that is rated below 31 Hz which is around a B0.


I plan on running this through a sansamp DI into my interface/cubase etc
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#29
The Meshuggah bassist actually plays in unison with the guitarists, they are in flat tuning (FBbEbAbDbGbBbEb) and the bassist tunes up to CEbAbDbGb.

Make sense aye?

Ibanez SR506BM
Ashdown Little Giant 1000w
Peavey TVX 115+410
A big ass upright

#30
Quote by Deliriumbassist
I tune to drop G at times, using a 34" scale and a .135 gauge low B string. I have no problems.

Way too floppy for my tastes (also 34" though at .130)

Apparently you can get Swing 66 in .175, sounds like an idea to me!
Lord Gold feeds from your orifices and he wants to see you sweat.
Lord Gold probes you publicly and makes your pussy wet.
Now say his name.....
#31
Quote by DiamondOfBlood
well I guess since I have a string gauge figured out I'd have to look into what bass to buy but I'm at a loss for how many strings I should get..I know I like to do a lot with my bass lines but hm..I guess it's just a matter of artistic taste?

EDIT: think a 34" scale would be okay? I see a cheap one that I have my eye on...


The 34" would work. It may be a bit floppy, but if you're playing metal it might help you get that clanky tone.
The number of strings is entirely up to you. If you're going to use more than 4, go for it, but the prices will increase.

Edit: What bass are you looking at?
Last edited by Aidonius at Sep 2, 2010,
#32
get a 7 sting bass, they have a low f# string i believe
Quote by BobDetroit
It's all about the abalone. You can't play metal without it. Mother of pearl? MOTO? GTFO!
#33
Quote by Aidonius
The 34" would work. It may be a bit floppy, but if you're playing metal it might help you get that clanky tone.
The number of strings is entirely up to you. If you're going to use more than 4, go for it, but the prices will increase.

Edit: What bass are you looking at?


http://www.rondomusic.com/nbc4tbk.html

trying not to break bank on this
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#34
You say you want this for recording, you are looking at this the wrong way. First google signal generators and listen to some pure tones. Set it up at 1000Hz as loud as you can bear it and then change the frequency to 50Hz which is not too far away from F# above bottom E which is 43Hz. You'll notice how deep this tone is but also how quiet it is, you may even need to turn the volume up to hear it at all. Now turn down to 25Hz and you may not be able to hear it at all., not all humans can.

The truth is that you can't really hear the deep fundamentals and what you think is deep bass is in fact a rich mix of harmonics. In a recording studio you have much more control over the harmonic structure of every note, you can use eq and you can double track adding an extra bass or two to the bassline or even a synthesizer. This is how the mega deep recorded bass lines are created. You can also buy an octaver which shifts everything down an octave for a lot less than a long scale fiver.

There's not much you can't achieve with a good four string. The reason for buying a fiver is that you get a fuller sound from the thicker strings and you can play the same note higher up the neck allowing faster runs and less stretching.

Go onto Riffs and Recordings and ask how they record super-deep bass lines. Save your money for other kit
#35
this is actually a fairly good idea. BUTTTT gt a 6 string and put a 7 string set on it, toss out the high C. rock and roll. you'll get cool points.
no sir away a papaya war is on
#36
Quote by primusclaypool1
get a 7 sting bass, they have a low f# string i believe



I believe some add F# and some add high F. I know conklin does their production basses in that manner atleast.

Would be interestining to see a low f#.
1st Schecter 8er? in UG's 7 String Legion
Conklin GT-7
Hartke Hydrive 210C
Digitech Screamin' Blues
Bugera 1990 Head
Dunlop wah
Saxon snakeskin 1x12 cab
I Nouni
#37
Quote by Phil Starr
You say you want this for recording, you are looking at this the wrong way. First google signal generators and listen to some pure tones. Set it up at 1000Hz as loud as you can bear it and then change the frequency to 50Hz which is not too far away from F# above bottom E which is 43Hz. You'll notice how deep this tone is but also how quiet it is, you may even need to turn the volume up to hear it at all. Now turn down to 25Hz and you may not be able to hear it at all., not all humans can.

The truth is that you can't really hear the deep fundamentals and what you think is deep bass is in fact a rich mix of harmonics. In a recording studio you have much more control over the harmonic structure of every note, you can use eq and you can double track adding an extra bass or two to the bassline or even a synthesizer. This is how the mega deep recorded bass lines are created. You can also buy an octaver which shifts everything down an octave for a lot less than a long scale fiver.

There's not much you can't achieve with a good four string. The reason for buying a fiver is that you get a fuller sound from the thicker strings and you can play the same note higher up the neck allowing faster runs and less stretching.

Go onto Riffs and Recordings and ask how they record super-deep bass lines. Save your money for other kit


I hear you, I'll look into that possibilty
Death..Is Just The Beginning..
#38
If .175 is for F#, what the hell is a .145 good for? Ive heard of people using a .135 and its just fine for them'

I found out the lowest bass string available (from what i know) is a .240 and its called a subcontra bass string used to tune to the lower levels of Hades. (G#0 if I remember correctly).
pinga
#40
Quote by Cb4rabid
If .175 is for F#, what the hell is a .145 good for? Ive heard of people using a .135 and its just fine for them'

I found out the lowest bass string available (from what i know) is a .240 and its called a subcontra bass string used to tune to the lower levels of Hades. (G#0 if I remember correctly).

I'd use a .145 if I were tuning G# Standard
Lord Gold feeds from your orifices and he wants to see you sweat.
Lord Gold probes you publicly and makes your pussy wet.
Now say his name.....