#1
my drummer refuses to count off. it's ok in practice, but i worry that in recording it'll come off sloppy if we just start willy nilly, and on stage the whole band has to turn around and look at him to know when to start the song. i was wondering if anybody else here ever needs a count off for songs where every member of the band starts off all at once. he says good bands never use a count off, but i just dont see how everyone is able to telepathically tell when the next song will start. i can understand not counting off if it's only one instrument coming in, then the band or something, but it's really difficult to time just saying "ok go".

also, for 4/4 time, he counts three beats, which throws me off because i feel like it's going to be 3/4 time. he doesnt leave a silent beat either, so i cant even count 4 in my head.

it's really aggervating, and i feel like if i get some back up from some other musicians i can convince him to get over the fact that he just doesnt want like clicking sticks together before a song.
#2
Quote by freakincody7
my drummer refuses to count off. it's ok in practice, but i worry that in recording it'll come off sloppy if we just start willy nilly, and on stage the whole band has to turn around and look at him to know when to start the song. i was wondering if anybody else here ever needs a count off for songs where every member of the band starts off all at once. he says good bands never use a count off, but i just dont see how everyone is able to telepathically tell when the next song will start. i can understand not counting off if it's only one instrument coming in, then the band or something, but it's really difficult to time just saying "ok go".

also, for 4/4 time, he counts three beats, which throws me off because i feel like it's going to be 3/4 time. he doesnt leave a silent beat either, so i cant even count 4 in my head.

it's really aggervating, and i feel like if i get some back up from some other musicians i can convince him to get over the fact that he just doesnt want like clicking sticks together before a song.


Your drummer is in short a dumbass. In a recording, count off and then cut it out of the track. In live shows, count off on the hi-hat if you don't wanna sound lame and use sticks. Tell him that while he may not see a problem with it, the rest of the band needs it, and it's a necessity.
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#3
He sounds like an idiot. If he doesn't wanna click the sticks, he should at least do a fill or something. Giving some sort of cue not only gets you all synched, but it also let's the audience know you're gonna play as well.
#4
drummers are generally jerks

Its more or less their job to count off, but depends whos starting to play, if the drums starts then he should count but if everyone starts im sure anyone can count in, so the drummer can get a feel for the tempo

he sounds like a typical drummer, "you all need me" attitude, but when it comes down to it, doesnt know the first thing about holding time and counting

You are right, you need to count it in, if he doesnt want to then someone else just should
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#5
thanks, we usually try to compromise and have someone play a little something before we start, but this song sounds really bad with a fill or anything before hand. i'm glad i've got some support now. we spent half of band practice argueing, and he still didnt want to do it.

cant wait for band practice next weekend, i'm gonna be the smuggest bastard to play guitar.
#6
"he says good bands never use a count off"

That's hilarious. Your drummer really is an idiot. Be smug. Be an bitch. Tell him to count off and stop being a little prick.
#7
If your drummer refuses to count off, just get the singer to count off instead.

In terms of "good bands" never counting off, that's incorrect.
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#8
yeah, he listens to limp bisquik and wears ed hardy >_> he's pretty much a standard douche drummer. we end up having to do shit like this all the time with him. he's the only drummer i've ever played with though, are they all this difficult?
#9
Quote by freakincody7

cant wait for band practice next weekend, i'm gonna be the smuggest bastard to play guitar.



I can honestly say I envy your forwardness - the band i was in failed in the ass horribly because the drummer was / is a total self-indulgent wanker and was also my best friend at the time and I let it all bottle up until I unleashed hell and we haven't spoken in about 10 months
Quote by BlitzkriegAir
1. Get drunk
2. play pentatonic scales fast
3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
4. Get killed onstage
5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


Quote by Holy Katana

How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
#10
If he can keep time, it doesnt matter. If you're bothered by it why don you just count off?

If he can't keep time then thats another issue but if he does maybe he doesnt have to numerically count to keep time so actually counting might mess his rhythm up.
#11
he doesnt want anyone counting off, it's not just that he doesnt want to, it's that he hates the idea of having to. he thinks we should be some sort of mind-linked super heroes that just KNOW when to play a song. apperently having a little extra before hand to make a song start off correctly taints the entire thing, so noone will ever love the song at all, ever.
#12
Quote by freakincody7
he doesnt want anyone counting off, it's not just that he doesnt want to, it's that he hates the idea of having to. he thinks we should be some sort of mind-linked super heroes that just KNOW when to play a song. apperently having a little extra before hand to make a song start off correctly taints the entire thing, so noone will ever love the song at all, ever.


Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHYOCOStIdQ

Maybe he saw that video
#13
Look, just be thankful he isn't a lead singer.
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#15
O RLY?

*strokes chin*
Quote by BlitzkriegAir
1. Get drunk
2. play pentatonic scales fast
3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
4. Get killed onstage
5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


Quote by Holy Katana

How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
#17
Man your drummer sounds like a dick! It doesn't make any sense! Its a drummers job to ensure everybody keeps in time etc....this involves counting you in at the start of a song. In my opinion you should either get a new drummer or start using a click track.
#18
Quote by freakincody7
i can never allow him to see this. he'll go ape shit.


It's alright, he'll never find it in MT, he'd look for it in the band leading forum

What I don't understand is that if he doesn't count in how can he count in in 3\4 ?

Quote by freakincody7


also, for 4/4 time, he counts three beats, which throws me off because i feel like it's going to be 3/4 time. he doesnt leave a silent beat either, so i cant even count 4 in my head.



or do you mean during the song? If so... goodbye drummer.
#19
i forced him to count off, and he only did three beats. then it was back to telling me he didnt wanna count off
#20
You can give a cue with your body language.
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#21
Quote by freakincody7
i forced him to count off, and he only did three beats. then it was back to telling me he didnt wanna count off


You talk about compromised then you force him to do things.

When someone meets you with hard headedness, be soft. Just try and do the cue with your body language. Classical guys do it all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGecTrhNzG4

Look at like 5 seconds . They give an upbeat right before the tune.
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#22
Quote by freakincody7
my drummer refuses to count off. it's ok in practice



Thanks not ok in any situation. Personally I wouldn't waste time with someone like that.
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#23
i thought of that, but it doesnt really work on stage, because we cant be sure unless everyone is looking at everyone, and it looks pretty dumb when a whole band has to look around at eachother before they start a song.
#24
Quote by freakincody7
i thought of that, but it doesnt really work on stage, because we cant be sure unless everyone is looking at everyone, and it looks pretty dumb when a whole band has to look around at eachother before they start a song.


It's uncooperative and immature of him to do this. That being said, there is nothing anyone here can do about it other than tell what you already know.... that the guy is an ass.

If you want advice, Id say you have 2 options.

1) deal with it

2) get rid of him

Only you and the guys in the band can make that choice.
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#25
Why dont YOU count everybody off TS, since obviously the drummer doesnt want to do it and you're apparently the one bitching about it.
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#26
Quote by freakincody7
i thought of that, but it doesnt really work on stage, because we cant be sure unless everyone is looking at everyone, and it looks pretty dumb when a whole band has to look around at eachother before they start a song.



You are just about as difficult as your drummer. You only want things ONE WAY.

so, either fix it, or get rid of him. I know I definitely wouldn't be in a band with you!
Don't tell me what can not be done

Don't tell me what can be done, either.



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#27
RBM01991: he doesnt want ANYONE counting off, because he thinks we can just miraculously manage to start a song all at once without looking at eachother.

nightwind: the whole point was to try to fix it. nothing sounds good before this song, so having a little pre-song drum riff doesnt really work, it sounds out of place, and just starting it without anything means we all have to look around for confirmation. most people would just count off, but he doesnt want ANYONE doing that.
#28
Quote by freakincody7
RBM01991: he doesnt want ANYONE counting off, because he thinks we can just miraculously manage to start a song all at once without looking at eachother.

nightwind: the whole point was to try to fix it. nothing sounds good before this song, so having a little pre-song drum riff doesnt really work, it sounds out of place, and just starting it without anything means we all have to look around for confirmation. most people would just count off, but he doesnt want ANYONE doing that.



So why are you playing with the guy, and what do expect to accomplish by posting here?
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#29
Count off on your guitar? I mean it's how you do it without a drummer, it makes everyone get ready - and it's a quirk in a main band, therefore making it cool.
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#30
he's like the only drummer in augusta, GA. and he's nice to play and hang with, just really hard to actually WORK with. and i posted on here cause i needed a second opinion, so i knew it was just me who thought count offs were important, because according to him, noone else thinks they are.
#31
Quote by freakincody7
yeah, he listens to limp bisquik and wears ed hardy >_> he's pretty much a standard douche drummer. we end up having to do shit like this all the time with him. he's the only drummer i've ever played with though, are they all this difficult?

No, they're not all that difficult. In the only band I was in, I dealt with 2 drummers and they were both awesome. And then I've helped another band with their drum lines and stuff and he was awesome.

It's pretty much been said, but the only band I can think of that DOESN'T have an audible count off is Dream Theater... and that's only because they have a click in their ear pieces.

Hey..! What's wrong with Limp Bizkit?
#33
Explain to him that most of the time, when a band all comes in at the same time, and you can't hear anyone counting in, they're playing to a click track. I know of some drummers who have a click fed into their monitors for entire sets, so the soundguy will throw the click into everyones monitors for the four beats before a song starts. Of course, to pull this off, you need to have a soundguy who knows your set. So until you have your own crew, it's up to him to count you off.
I cannot possibly imagine what argument he makes against counting off. That's like making an argument against blinking. Just ridiculous.
#34
Wow, what a douche. Your mileage may vary, but if it were me I'd call him out where he gets the arrogance and overconfidence from that he can measure himself with the "greatest bands" by not counting.

A mindblowingly great band may or may not need to count in, but a *good* band recognizes that it is better to do something 'lame' as counting in and actually starting out good then not counting and starting out of sync.
You'll not get better by emulating bad habbits.. is he also the guy that thinks because his hero's are homeless drug addicts, he'd get better by being a homeless drug addict?

And really, he has a stick up his ass if he thinks no one good counts in, it's just that a lot of the more established bands 'camouflage' it rather then tapping sticks.. you know, stuff like doing a little drum fill in the right time as a que.

You might try and get him to do just that.. a little fill or mini-solo of a pre-set number of beats, 4 if it's in 4/4 or 3 if it's in 3/4 for example.

If he doesnt even accept to do that, it's time to look for a new drummer dude. No matter how good he might be at bashing the skins, someone like that will only hold the whole band back. If he cant see past his important role of supporting the whole band and focuses on stupid image things and sees the band as his vehicle to rockstardom, you're better off without.
#35
Ether he's a prick or just you guys are scared of him. Tell him up front you need him to count off because its confusing for the band. He may think he's all pro and all but if you guys are confused then its gonna make you guys look bad, honestly. Why is he in your band if he's not co-operating with you guys?? Tell him to start doing his part or else he's out, that should perk him up xD if he leaves then wow you guys don't know how to pick trustworthy and reliable members