#1
People will often say that an amplifier has a vintage voicing, or modern. I presume this has to do with the tone stack?

If this is indeed the case, would the vintage voicing come from a Marshall style stack? Where does the modern come from? A Fender style?

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#2
Doesn't have much to do with a the brand. For example marshall makes vintage and modern sounding amps.
I can't really explain the difference it's more something (I) just hear
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#3
A Vintage voicing is more of an old-school, less gain, vintage kind of hard rock distortion.
Modern Voicing has more gain is heavier.
#4
Vintage voicings tend to sound more flat (not in a bad way, mind you) and modern voicings tend to have more or less pronounced mids.

Vintage voicing = Led Zeppelin, GnR, Cream, (you know...classic stuff!) type sound.

Modern voicing = Stuff like Avenged Sevenfold, Tool, Joe Satriani, etc. Usually more gain also.

The effect is more apparent with more gain IMO.
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#5
In my opinion vintage and modern refer to gain. Vintage gain is loose, power amp driven overdrive whereas modern is tight, pre amp driven distortion. Just my two cents though, they aren't meant to be objective terms, which is why people rarely say its 'modern voiced' they say its 'more of a modern voicing.'
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#6
I did a whole post on this in the Tone testing thread.

Differences between the 3 main amp voicings.

In the guitar world today, you mainly hear three primary guitar amp voicings. British, American, and German.

British and American voices are the most recognizable (IMO). There are many brands but here are a few of the most recognizable:

British:
Marshall
Vox
Orange
Splawn

American:
Fender
Mesa/Boogie
Gibson/Kalamazoo

These two voicing’s have almost opposite frequency responses. With the American voicing be more scooped in the mid range (500Hz-2 kHz) and the British voicing having a more pronounced mid range as shown in the two pictures below.
(British)


(American)


The German voicing is the new kid on the block as far as voicings go. Mainly metal amps (Although some company’s like Bogner make great Classic Rock amps also) they are somewhat of a cross between British and American voicings.

Some of the most recognized brands of German voiced amps are:

Engl
Framus
Diezel
Bogner


The German voicing is very unique as it’s kind of a mash of parts from both the American and British voices. For the most part they have a lower mid range (500Hz-2 kHz) (much like American Voiced amps) while still retaining the clarity in the mids by bumping the lower mids (250-500Hz) this is part of the reason they have that low end growl. As shown in the picture below.



So now that you have the frequency response of these three voicing’s you can tweak to your hearts delight. I suggest that you download or buy a frequency analyzer, as this will help you in your endeavor. I personally suggest the Voxengo Spectrum analysis. It works great and it’s free.


The amps used for the spectrum analysis pictures were:

German: Engl Blackmore (Mark G)
British: Vox AC15 (Bostonrocks)
American: Mesa/Boogie Mark IV (Mexican_Shred)

EDIT, while this doesn't really explain the difference between "modern" and "vintage" you can really see where they come from, with the American voiced mesa being slightly scooped with more low mids and the more "vintage" AC15 being very pronounced in the mids and treble
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Last edited by Bostonrocks at Sep 7, 2010,
#7
Quote by tubetime86
In my opinion vintage and modern refer to gain. Vintage gain is loose, power amp driven overdrive whereas modern is tight, pre amp driven distortion. Just my two cents though, they aren't meant to be objective terms, which is why people rarely say its 'modern voiced' they say its 'more of a modern voicing.'


This is what I think of when I think of vintage voiced vs. modern voiced. Could be erroneous but it is what it is in my head.
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#8
As far as modern and vintage, vintage means grittier, spongier, loose and raw. Modern means "cleaner", tighter, a bit "sterile" to some and the like. A bit more refined if you will.

As far as British, American and the newer German voicings, British is raw with lots of high mids and a very crunchy high end. American is typically a bit more scooped with emphasis on bass and a smoother treble. German is a mix between the two and is popularized by brands such as Bogner. It has lots of mids but they tend to be focused in the lower mid range. The high end is a bit more subdued and smoother than British voiced amps.

EDIT: Dammit Brett. You've even got pics too.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Sep 7, 2010,
#9
Quote by mmolteratx
As far as modern and vintage, vintage means grittier, spongier, loose and raw. Modern means "cleaner", tighter, a bit "sterile" to some and the like. A bit more refined if you will.

As far as British, American and the newer German voicings, British is raw with lots of high mids and a very crunchy high end. American is typically a bit more scooped with emphasis on bass and a smoother treble. German is a mix between the two and is popularized by brands such as Bogner. It has lots of mids but they tend to be focused in the lower mid range. The high end is a bit more subdued and smoother than British voiced amps.

EDIT: Dammit Brett. You've even got pics too.


Heck yes i do , I took so long to write that. it took forever, I think that's the first time i've actually used it outside the TTT lol
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yawn


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When he finally gets one it'll probably be televised like the Berlin Wall coming down.
The end of an era
#10
Quote by tubetime86
In my opinion vintage and modern refer to gain. Vintage gain is loose, power amp driven overdrive whereas modern is tight, pre amp driven distortion. Just my two cents though, they aren't meant to be objective terms, which is why people rarely say its 'modern voiced' they say its 'more of a modern voicing.'


This is how I always interpreted it, but its subjective.

I tend to tie in where the mid hump lies in the spectrum, with what country a voicing originates from. For example a Bogner Uberschall will have a low mid hump (German voicing), where a Marshall will have a mid hump higher on the spectrum (British voiced).

Hard to explain without pics but it makes sense in my head.

DS

EDIT: Looks like I got beat to the punch by several years there. Left my tabs open too long.
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#11
Quote by Death-Speak
This is how I always interpreted it, but it subjected.

I tend to tie in where the mid hump lies in the spectrum, with what country a voicing originates from. For example a Bogner Uberschall will have a low mid hump (German voicing), where a Marshall will have a mid hump higher on the spectrum (British voiced).

Hard to explain without pics but it makes sense in my head.

DS



Look above
Quote by gregs1020
Brett has been saving for a splawn for 4 years
countries have been toppled in the time it's taking, revolutions won got a black pres

yawn


Quote by bubb_tubbs
When he finally gets one it'll probably be televised like the Berlin Wall coming down.
The end of an era
#13
Quote by tubetime86
In my opinion vintage and modern refer to gain. Vintage gain is loose, power amp driven overdrive whereas modern is tight, pre amp driven distortion. Just my two cents though, they aren't meant to be objective terms, which is why people rarely say its 'modern voiced' they say its 'more of a modern voicing.'


agreed. and often the tonestacks don't do much on vintage-style amps, you're only tweaking slightly the core voicing of the amp, whereas more modern amps often have much more responsive eq sections. That's not necessarily better- it's often a lot easier to dial in a bad tone/harder to find a good tone!

EDIT: what matt and brett said too
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 7, 2010,
#14
Thank you for educating me bostonrocks. I know why I like german voiced amps so much now.
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#15
its to my understanding that a bit more of a scooped sound is modern, while the opposite is vintage. also ive heard british/el34 based amps described as old school/vintage while american/6l6 called modern.


IMO the 6l6/el34 thing is somewhat true, but you can make any amp sound vintage or modern depending on options and THE PLAYER. i dont really think eq has too much to do with it, its just the "voice" the way the amp sounds and distorts. like a persons voice. they sound different. its just something you have to hear.
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#16
When I think vintage I think of Tony Iommi, when I think modern I think of Zakk Wylde.
#17
But Fender amps tend to get very bright and have high mids, no? But if they're american they should have a smooth high end and a scooped mid section. I am confused.
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#18
Quote by PussyPunk182
But Fender amps tend to get very bright and have high mids, no? But if they're american they should have a smooth high end and a scooped mid section. I am confused.


What Fenders are you playing? The only ones with a good amount of mids are the old Tweed models. Blackface and Silverface style amps are pretty scooped. Some models can get pretty bright like the Deluxe Reverb but the rest of the frequency response is close enough that it's still an American voiced amp.
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#19
Quote by Bostonrocks
I did a whole post on this in the Tone testing thread.

Differences between the 3 main amp voicings.

In the guitar world today, you mainly hear three primary guitar amp voicings. British, American, and German.

British and American voices are the most recognizable (IMO). There are many brands but here are a few of the most recognizable:

British:
Marshall
Vox
Orange
Splawn

American:
Fender
Mesa/Boogie
Gibson/Kalamazoo

These two voicing’s have almost opposite frequency responses. With the American voicing be more scooped in the mid range (500Hz-2 kHz) and the British voicing having a more pronounced mid range as shown in the two pictures below.
(British)


(American)


The German voicing is the new kid on the block as far as voicings go. Mainly metal amps (Although some company’s like Bogner make great Classic Rock amps also) they are somewhat of a cross between British and American voicings.

Some of the most recognized brands of German voiced amps are:

Engl
Framus
Diezel
Bogner


The German voicing is very unique as it’s kind of a mash of parts from both the American and British voices. For the most part they have a lower mid range (500Hz-2 kHz) (much like American Voiced amps) while still retaining the clarity in the mids by bumping the lower mids (250-500Hz) this is part of the reason they have that low end growl. As shown in the picture below.



So now that you have the frequency response of these three voicing’s you can tweak to your hearts delight. I suggest that you download or buy a frequency analyzer, as this will help you in your endeavor. I personally suggest the Voxengo Spectrum analysis. It works great and it’s free.


The amps used for the spectrum analysis pictures were:

German: Engl Blackmore (Mark G)
British: Vox AC15 (Bostonrocks)
American: Mesa/Boogie Mark IV (Mexican_Shred)

EDIT, while this doesn't really explain the difference between "modern" and "vintage" you can really see where they come from, with the American voiced mesa being slightly scooped with more low mids and the more "vintage" AC15 being very pronounced in the mids and treble

Sums it up beatifully.
The whole modern vs vintage is just where the amp is saturating, at the pre or power stage.
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Last edited by R.D at Sep 7, 2010,
#20
is there a way to how much cuts/boosts are present in say a german vs american vs british?

just a simple 3-6db is the idea? like between a german vs american, +3db~ in 250hz-500hz boost on the german voicing.

i do not know if this would help anything, i was just wondering if there is a number for me to wrap my head around.

another reason if its even doable, i have a Para EQ that id like to adjust to add to this 250hz-500hz, but i have no idea how much of a boost/cut is needed(sorry to jack the thread...T_T)
Last edited by iampeter at Sep 8, 2010,