#1
My parents are recieving $8000 in income taxes this year, and are buying my last rig/graduation gift. They've given me $2,000 to spend on whatever setup i want. I've got my choice amp, but I've been stuck picking between two choices of 3 guitars.

I just wanted to ask which would be the better deal.

A PRS SE Torero

or

An ESP LTD M300-FM and a Schecter C-1 Hellraiser (Yes, both of them)

Any advice?
#2
I wouldn't bother with the LTD. If you bought both the Hellraiser and the LTD then you would, I'm sure, end up not touching the LTD. It's not a bad guitar, but the Hellraiser is better than it in almost every way. That said I don't think much of the SE series either, personally I've never found one worth a damn. If those are the only three guitars you'll consider, I would suggest you stick to the Hellraiser and either put the rest of the money elsewhere or just don't spend it and let your parents keep the leftovers. Maybe consider buying one of the LTD Deluxe range instead, or hell, for the cost of a Hellraiser and and LTD 300 series, you could buy a full MIJ ESP Standard Series guitar which will be built to a far higher standard than any of the three guitars you've mentioned.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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#3
Might as well get this out of the way now: What amp have you decided on?

Why exactly are you considering getting the LTD and the Schecter? They're pretty similar guitars. I would only buy two guitars if they were markedly different and you were getting something from one that you weren't from the other. Like say a strat and a les paul, two completely different sounds and feels.
Member #10 Of The Black Tooth Grin: Dimebag Memorial Club. PM Narmi To Join
#4
I'm considering getting the two because i just started playing shows with my current band, and I have an old Schecter Damien FR. It's reaching it's limit in playing. I was wanting the two similar guitars, because I need a new guitar, and a back-up for playing live (considering my playing style.) And I wanted generally the same tone from both guitars.

And I'm getting a Line 6 Spider IV 150HD half stack. It might not be your cup of tea, but I am a big fan and a supporter of the Line 6 Spider series.
#6
or anybody's cup of tea/coffee/water/etc.
Guitars
1998 Gibson Les Paul Standard
1992 Ibanez RG550
Amplifier
1978 Marshall JMP 2203
#7
And I'm not buying the guitars because of personal preference. It's not like my absolute favorite guitar manufacturers are ESP and Schecter. I'm going by specifications that fit my desired tone and playing style. I'm not knocking off other guitars because i don't like the brand, these guitars are just simply in my price range and meet the specs that i desire.
#9
Ha
I tried one out, actually.

Unfortunately, I'm not a big 8 string player...I was considering a 7 string though.
I looked into an Ibanez RG7.
It was pretty nice.
#10
Quote by xXYoung.BloodXx
I'm considering getting the two because i just started playing shows with my current band, and I have an old Schecter Damien FR. It's reaching it's limit in playing. I was wanting the two similar guitars, because I need a new guitar, and a back-up for playing live (considering my playing style.) And I wanted generally the same tone from both guitars.

And I'm getting a Line 6 Spider IV 150HD half stack. It might not be your cup of tea, but I am a big fan and a supporter of the Line 6 Spider series.


SS HALF STACK? AND A SPIDER 3?
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!1

Get a Peavey Vypyr Tube 60.
#11
Quote by GS LEAD 5
SS HALF STACK? AND A SPIDER 3?
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!1

Get a Peavey Vypyr Tube 60.



I know right....and then he talks about guitars he selected because they fit the 'tone' he's looking for.
Guitars
1998 Gibson Les Paul Standard
1992 Ibanez RG550
Amplifier
1978 Marshall JMP 2203
#12
Quote by xXYoung.BloodXx
Ha
I tried one out, actually.

Unfortunately, I'm not a big 8 string player...I was considering a 7 string though.
I looked into an Ibanez RG7.
It was pretty nice.


Might as well take an 8. You never know. Only slightly more than a similarly specced 7. I myself am eyeing the Ibanez RGA8. A steal at $800 after taxes.

@^
Like I said, Vypyr Tube 60. Owns Spider 3. Its even lu\ouder too- dont forget, 60W power tube section. Will make your balls fall off.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Sep 10, 2010,
#13
Quote by Paith
I know right....and then he talks about guitars he selected because they fit the 'tone' he's looking for.


I'm getting the SS Spider IVHD because I like it. I'm not getting gear because everybody else loves the tone of it. I've tried tube amps, combos, halfs and full stacks. And i like the sound of the SS better. Don't knock on me because of the sound that i like.
#14
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Might as well take an 8. You never know. Only slightly more than a similarly specced 7. I myself am eyeing the Ibanez RGA8. A steal at $800 after taxes.

@^
Like I said, Vypyr Tube 60. Owns Spider 3. Its even lu\ouder too- dont forget, 60W power tube section. Will make your balls fall off.



I'm not going for volume, I'm going for sound. I can mic a SS stack and make it louder.
And I've never actually owned an ibanez, but most of them i've played on have been decent, I might try that RGA8, might change things for me.
#15
Quote by xXYoung.BloodXx
I'm getting the SS Spider IVHD because I like it. I'm not getting gear because everybody else loves the tone of it. I've tried tube amps, combos, halfs and full stacks. And i like the sound of the SS better. Don't knock on me because of the sound that i like.


No no no, please don't do this

There is nothing wrong with Solid State. There is nothing wrong with modelling. Any of the people on this forum who know what they're talking about will tell you that and never say a word otherwise. If you want solid state and you want modelling, fine. But do not waste your money on a bad amp when you have an amazing budget to be working with. Get a half stack if you'd like but why get a stack and mic it when you can get a combo and do the same thing?

You want solid state, look at some higher end Randalls like the T2, V2 or some of their older models. Look at a Roland Jazz Chorus or an Ampeg VH140C. If you want modelling look into Axe FX. Hell, if you want solid state, modelling and Line 6 Get. A. Vetta.

I'll repeat:

Get. A. Line. 6. Vetta.

It wouldn't be my choice personally, but if you want a solid state Line 6 modeller then that is the best you can get. It will blow the spider out of the water.

If you do not have a good amp, your tone will suffer greatly for it. It is the biggest contributor to your tone (Before anyone corrects me, technique and playing style contributes to your sound. Your amp has the biggest impact on your tone).

You have an amazing budget to work with right now that can get you a fantastic amp and a fantastic guitar. Do not waste this opportunity. Do your research and get something that will last you a lifetime. Not 6 months until you realise the mistake you made.

As for two guitars, to be honest if one is just going to be a back up I'd just buy one really good guitar that suits your needs and spend some money fixing up the guitar your have now to use that as your back up.
Member #10 Of The Black Tooth Grin: Dimebag Memorial Club. PM Narmi To Join
Last edited by GNR4EVER at Sep 10, 2010,
#16
Hey, you've got two grand, just go into a store and pick whatever guitar feels best to you. Choosing one only based on features isn't that great of an idea, since unless you are extremely experienced with this kind of thing (e.g. you're a luthier), you won't be able to tell how a guitar sounds and feels from features alone (and even if you could, you'd need more of an actual blue-print of the guitar instead of what little info we can give you). Also, feature lists don't tell you anything about the quality of the parts used - maybe about the hardware and electronics, but not about the timbers, for example.

So yeah, go into a store and see what feels best to you. Now tone? Doesn't make a difference. Spiders tend to make any guitar plugged into them sound the same, pretty much. If you're after something like an early '90s grindcore tone or maybe some of the more obscure thrash and black metal tones of the late '80s and early '90s, the Spider will deliver... in the sense that it will make annoying, buzzing sounds. Better look into something like an Ampeg VH140 or related models (Crate made an amp that was basically the same, but the name escapes me at the moment) if you're into SS amps.
#17
For that kind of money, I would definitely try before buying. I certainly wouldn't make a decision based on Internet opinions. Go into a store and buy the guitar that best fits you, regardless of brand.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#19
edit: ^ what he said.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Sep 10, 2010,
#20
^all those who said the Spider is useless= +1111111111111111

A half stack/full stack is meant for volume. There is no point if you are going to mic it. Its like buying a 7 string guitar and disconnecting the 7th string. You want a half stack, take a tube amp. Far FAR superior. You could easily get a Bugera or something- 120 watts=pure evil.
Or a Peavey Vypyr 120 combo. Even that can easily do most gigs unmiced.

X watts of tube= ~3x watts of SS
Not only that, SS amps sound crap cranked up. Take a tube amp at volume 6 and an SS at the same volume. The SS will sound artificial and thin, with a lot of flat crackly breakup. The tube will sound warm and creamy.

Bottom line- get the Vypyr 60/75 if you intend to mic, or a Vypyr 120 head and a Randall 4*4 cab. Or get a Bugera 333/6260 combo. Both will cost you around 600-900, leaving you with enough moolah for say and Ibanez
RGA8 or one of the $999 Schecters.


EDIT: If you HAVE to mic a half stack, get a Blackstar HT-5 or something.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Sep 10, 2010,
#23
Quote by GS LEAD 5

X watts of tube= ~3x watts of SS


Are there some kind of special watts for tube amps which are different from SS watts? 1 watt is the same no matter what the circuitry. If an amp is rated at 100W, then its power output is 100W regardless of whether it is tube or transistor based.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#24
Quote by Mad Marius
Are there some kind of special watts for tube amps which are different from SS watts? 1 watt is the same no matter what the circuitry. If an amp is rated at 100W, then its power output is 100W regardless of whether it is tube or transistor based.


Yes, 1 watt is 1 watt is 1 watt. That being said, go listen to a 15w tube amp cranked then do the same with a 15w SS. You'll hear the volume difference, I guarantee it. I've heard a variety of explanations as to why this is and honestly can't tell you which one is scientifically accurate. But the fact still stands that from a volume perception level to the human ear, tube is louder than SS.
Quote by Wondergaurd
The Strat/Tele debate is alot like picking a starter in Pokemon, each is great at something and can cover other fields well, it's just what they do good and great that makes 'em different
#25
Found my laptop in my car...i dont know why it's in here.
But I'm at a local shop (Music Masters? something like that) and I'm trying out a Vetta II they have there. Can't tell any volume difference from a spider IV because i'm in a shop and cant crank it. But i can tell so far that it comes with more features, and the modeling of the Dual and Triple Rectifier is flawless. It also comes with a hefty price tag.

But it's good so far. Playing on a Washburn WM526 (If only all dreams could come true.)
#26
Quote by xXYoung.BloodXx
Found my laptop in my car...i dont know why it's in here.
But I'm at a local shop (Music Masters? something like that) and I'm trying out a Vetta II they have there. Can't tell any volume difference from a spider IV because i'm in a shop and cant crank it. But i can tell so far that it comes with more features, and the modeling of the Dual and Triple Rectifier is flawless. It also comes with a hefty price tag.

But it's good so far. Playing on a Washburn WM526 (If only all dreams could come true.)


How much?

As I said, it's a very good amp but wouldn't be my choice personally. You have so many options in your price range but if you're adamant you don't want tube and want a solid state modeller like the spider, then the Vetta II is likely the best solid state modeller out there.
Member #10 Of The Black Tooth Grin: Dimebag Memorial Club. PM Narmi To Join
#27
the vetta will sound better at band volume, trust us.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#28
Quote by Mad Marius
Are there some kind of special watts for tube amps which are different from SS watts? 1 watt is the same no matter what the circuitry. If an amp is rated at 100W, then its power output is 100W regardless of whether it is tube or transistor based.


To be precise-

100W Tube is as loud as a 300W ss.
Rough, but usually the case.
EDIT: Vypyr Tube 120/SS 100 heads are also an option. Even the Vypyr 60 combo will be loud enough.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Sep 10, 2010,
#29
The Vetta II is basically the best modelling amp on the market and has been used by countless bands all over the world for many years, both for recording and for live performance. If you've listened to any metal, alternative, grunge, industrial, gothic, nu-metal or hard rock album made in the last eight years then you have almost certainly heard a Vetta at some point. The Vetta series is leagues ahead of the regular Spider series (though quite frankly so are the Spider Valve and HD147 heads too).
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#30
About the wattage thing:
A watt is a watt is a watt. Amps are rated this way: Whatever amount of power the output stage can send to the speakers before it starts distorting is the power the amp is rated at. With solid state amps, the amp doesn't get louder once it starts distorting. Whatever it's rated at is how much it puts out maximum.
With tube amps it's a bit different. The output stage starts distorting the signal at around 5/10 on the volume knob... above that, not only does it distort the signal, but it gets louder nevertheless! A 50w tube amp can output up to 90w that way, even though it's rated considerably lower.
Now, how much power is sent to the speakers and how loud we perceive an amp to be are two different things. Human ears respond better to some frequencies than others, which also depends on the actual volume a lot. Generally, we perceive very middy sounds as loud, while for example lower frequencies need to be turned up quite a bit more to be perceived as equally loud. That's how two amps that output the same amount of power can be perceived as unequally loud.
There's a lot more to say about the topic, look up Fletcher and Munson on Wikipedia if you're interested.


Quote by gregs1020
the vetta will sound better at band volume, trust us.

+1

Vettas are made for band use. Spiders, not so much - they may sound okay at low levels, but as soon as you turn the volume higher than 4/10, things get worse.
#31
I'm still a bit confused on why you would want a line 6 spider when you have 2000 to spend on a rig. The torero costs around 1000 dollars leaving you with 1000 dollar to spend on a sweet tube amp(christ, you can buy something like a mesa boogie mark III for 1000 dollar). Just dump the spider and start testing some propper tube amps
gear
-Giablo JTM45
-Hook 2X12
-fender hw1 strat
-Fender AVRI 62 strat
#32
I'd get a JSX Head if I were you :/
It's probably got the best distortion sound I've heard up close so far.


As for a guitar, don't get one.
donate it to charity!
Gear

Ibanez RG350DX Electric Guitar With DiMarzio Tone Zone
Academy Electric Guitar
BeaverCreek Acoustic Guitar

Roland Micro Cube Amp
Academy 15W Amp
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey Sanpera Footswitch I
#34
I am not reading all the posts but,I bet there will be atleast one suggesting a low end peavey amp and agile guitar.If you do you can you can spend the money you save on a shrink trying to figure out why you spent your money on junk.
Bhaok

The following statement is true. The proceeding statement is false.
#35
Quote by Bhaok
I am not reading all the posts but,I bet there will be atleast one suggesting a low end peavey amp and agile guitar.If you do you can you can spend the money you save on a shrink trying to figure out why you spent your money on junk.


A bit harsh, but sensible. Spider IV half stack.......(shakes head)
Reminds me of a fellow who tried buying an MG100DFX full stack....buy, the way he got flamed.....(evil chuckle)