#1
Whats up everybody?

So Im almost done saving up for a new metal/shred guitar and im really considering getting the Horizon FrII which is 1700 or 1800 without shipping to Hawaii. I was considering getting the LTD deluxe H1001 FR, but Im not too big a fan of rosewood fretboards for metal and shred (got a les paul) and I want an ebony neck guitar with a neck thru body since my main guitar is a modded strat. Its a gigantic price difference and the saved money could be used to buy a new head for my speaker, but which should I get? I was also considering a schecter Damien elite..spelled correctly??? since it has kind of the same body style (ugghh, bolt on) and its way cheaper than the esp and somewhat cheaper than the LTD....200 some-odd dollars. Which is the better choice in your opinion? any other guitars besides the ones that ive just said that you'd recommend? Price isnt really a problem cause I got about $2000 for a guitar at the moment. also Im not too big a fan of jacksons and fixed bridges. Their good guitars but the necks just dont feel as comfortable as the esp or ltd's; and I need an ax with a floyd. Anyway, thanks in advance for your responses and I do appreciate any help I can get with this.

H.I.Shredder808
#2
Just get an Ltd or a schecter with a built in Floyd rose. Most of them come with emg pickups. So that should be a plus.
#3
ESP LTD sounds good for you. Schecter is also a GREAT company but they are not into ebony fretboards.

You should really not get a Horizon though, ESP LTD MH 1000 is just the same thing made in Korea. I have tried both and they are both just as good as each other, they just have an 800 dollar separation. You're much better off saving the 800 and getting a nice tube amp, I've recently aquired a 600 dollar Marshall JCM TSL 100 (ebays great
#4
Quote by Guitar Sushi
ESP LTD sounds good for you. Schecter is also a GREAT company but they are not into ebony fretboards.

You should really not get a Horizon though, ESP LTD MH 1000 is just the same thing made in Korea. I have tried both and they are both just as good as each other, they just have an 800 dollar separation. You're much better off saving the 800 and getting a nice tube amp, I've recently aquired a 600 dollar Marshall JCM TSL 100 (ebays great



Thanks for the answers and I agree with you about the ltd and esp quality difference, but as far as the ebony fretboard goes, the ltd mh1000 only comes with a rosewood as well as most of the ltds . As far as the tone and the sustain goes, isnt the horizon better? sharper sound and more sustain? because the big difference between the two that I was considering is that the Horizon has a neck thru and the ltd has a set neck but with a neck thru design. would the rosewood neck compensate for the sustain loss (H1001) as opposed to the neck thru with the ebony fretboard (horizon)?

and nice job on the savings. thats quite a deal you got there considering that the retail is over $1000 and is discontinued.....kinda jealous here......

so are there any other brands or guitars you guys think I should consider before buying the esp?
#5
Quote by Guitar Sushi
ESP LTD sounds good for you. Schecter is also a GREAT company but they are not into ebony fretboards.

You should really not get a Horizon though, ESP LTD MH 1000 is just the same thing made in Korea.



seriously Wrong in every level imaginable

ESP =/= LTD

ESp wood>LTD wood
ESP hardware>LTD hardware
ESP quality>LTD quality

yeah so basically horizon >than MH1000
Last edited by archenemyfan at Sep 11, 2010,
#6
Quote by malmsteensolo
Just get an Ltd or a schecter with a built in Floyd rose. Most of them come with emg pickups. So that should be a plus.


yeah, ive looked at a ton of ltds and most of the schecters. the problem is that I see nothing that screams out "hey im way better and or half of the cost" to me. plus the schecters that ive considered dont have the ebony fretboard or the neck thru design. theres the syn gates one, but im not too big a fan of having someones name allover my guitar even though its really good. the seymour duncan pups on that guitar and the overall construction of the guitar itself are killer though. I like A7X, but not that much to see syn and the a7x skull everytime I play
#7
Quote by archenemyfan
seriously Wrong in every level imaginable

ESP =/= LTD

ESp wood>LTD wood
ESP hardware>LTD hardware
ESP quality>LTD quality

yeah so basically horizon >than MH1000



really? this topic is really debatable but ive talked to tons of people online and in shops about the quality difference and they say that a few years approx 6 years ago the quality difference was huge. esp's were way better than ltds but they recently "stepped their game up" which is what the owner of a local guitar shop said. Im not too sure because ive only played and never owned a couple of ltds and the horizon, but what you said might change my mind. As far as I know, the body construction/headstock/wood is different and the ESP uses an original floyd as opposed to a floyd rose 1000 or something on the LTD. what esle is different?
#8
ESP >>>>>>>>>> LTD, certainly if you considder wood quality, CTS pots, fretwork, maple caps instead of veneers and quality control as important things.
If you don't, go for the LTD.

True enough, you can switch the hardware, wiring and pots, but you can't change your body, neck and fretboard wood. Its the resonation that makes a guitar to live up, or sound dull. It's the preciseness of the neck glued onto the body that makes the body resonate. It's the sturdiness of the neck wood that makes a guitar stay in tune an into good intonation. The fretboard wood shapes the attack, etc etc.

Oh lord yes, give me an esp!
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#9
ahh you should have just given me a plus one





BTW touching on the logical side of this issue,LTD is owned by ESP,why the hell would they want their budget guitar line to be of the same quality as the original?
Last edited by archenemyfan at Sep 11, 2010,
#10
Quote by LP_CL
ESP >>>>>>>>>> LTD, certainly if you considder wood quality, CTS pots, fretwork, maple caps instead of veneers and quality control as important things.
If you don't, go for the LTD.

True enough, you can switch the hardware, wiring and pots, but you can't change your body, neck and fretboard wood. Its the resonation that makes a guitar to live up, or sound dull. It's the preciseness of the neck glued onto the body that makes the body resonate. It's the sturdiness of the neck wood that makes a guitar stay in tune an into good intonation. The fretboard wood shapes the attack, etc etc.

Oh lord yes, give me an esp!


This.

LP knows what he's talking about,as does Arch,so listen to them!

Also,how's the Diezel sound LP?

WARNING!: THIS USER HAS BEEN KNOWN TO BE AN OPINIONATED ASS. ALWAYS USE CAUTION WHEN READING POSTS AND NEVER USE NEAR AN OPEN FLAME.USE ONLY AS DIRECTED.KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.







#11
It's jawdropping. It blows your nuts into your anus.
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#12
Quote by archenemyfan
ahh you should have just given me a plus one





BTW touching on the logical side of this issue,LTD is owned by ESP,why the hell would they want their budget guitar line to be of the same quality as the original?

That would have been quicker and easier yes. But i like long and difficult :p
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#13
Quote by LP_CL
It's jawdropping. It blows your nuts into your anus.




I'm stuck deciding whether I want the VH4 or an ENGL Special Edition.I've been able to sit down and demo the ENGL,but I haven't had a chance to play the VH4 yet,but after your review I'll be sure to bring an extra pair of pants when I do try it.

WARNING!: THIS USER HAS BEEN KNOWN TO BE AN OPINIONATED ASS. ALWAYS USE CAUTION WHEN READING POSTS AND NEVER USE NEAR AN OPEN FLAME.USE ONLY AS DIRECTED.KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.







#14
The SE is a great amp, but it had too many features that made the amps tone less pure, too processed.
The diezel is more spartan. No mid boost low boost buttons and other tiny stuff you never use anyway. Just volume, gain and EQ for each channel, a master volume, presence and deep.
I also like the fact that the diezel has a seperate loop for each channel, AND has a serial AND parallell loop for all channels. That means 6 loops, with billions of possibilities.

BUT you have to like the sound of the diezel. It's a very dry and dark sounding amp, and you have to like that. Otherwise the Engl will be a better choice.

Don't forget to test the Herbert though. Many people like it better than the VH4. But it's less versatile.
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Last edited by LP_CL at Sep 11, 2010,
#15
Quote by LP_CL
The SE is a great amp, but it had too many features that made the amps tone less pure, too processed.
The diezel is more spartan. No mid boost low boost buttons and other tiny stuff you never use anyway. Just volume, gain and EQ for each channel, a master volume, presence and deep.
I also like the fact that the diezel has a seperate loop for each channel, AND has a serial AND parallell loop for all channels. That means 6 loops, with billions of possibilities.

BUT you have to like the sound of the diezel. It's a very dry and dark sounding amp, and you have to like that. Otherwise the Engl will be a better choice.

Don't forget to test the Herbert though. Many people like it better than the VH4. But it's less versatile.


So it's similar to the Soldano SLO in the sense that it's a pure amp with a unique tone that you have to appreciate to enjoy.The one thing I really liked about the SE was the fact that even though you can get a ton of gain out of it,it remains dynamic and musical and not harsh or messy.

I've heard that about the Herbert,but I need an amp with a lot of versatility since I play many genres and styles on top of being a tone junky .

WARNING!: THIS USER HAS BEEN KNOWN TO BE AN OPINIONATED ASS. ALWAYS USE CAUTION WHEN READING POSTS AND NEVER USE NEAR AN OPEN FLAME.USE ONLY AS DIRECTED.KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.







Last edited by Pr0gNut at Sep 11, 2010,
#16
Quote by archenemyfan
ahh you should have just given me a plus one





BTW touching on the logical side of this issue,LTD is owned by ESP,why the hell would they want their budget guitar line to be of the same quality as the original?



how do I gve a plus one? just asking cause i would for the info. you and LP_CL for good info. anyway, ill just get the ESP and not have the thought of "What If".
It doesnt make sense, but as far as what ive heard about the difference, some say its close. and I also heard that Schecter and ESP/LTD are like brother companies considering that they have/had the same owner. anyways, thanks for the info regarding the two brands.
#17
Quote by archenemyfan
seriously Wrong in every level imaginable

ESP =/= LTD

ESp wood>LTD wood
ESP hardware>LTD hardware
ESP quality>LTD quality

yeah so basically horizon >than MH1000


I work in a guitar shop and have tried about 5 different Horizons and load and loads and loads of high end LTDs.

Bottom line, the sound is the nearly the same. I really don't look into woods if I don't see a reason. For example if I play a guitar and I think "this sounds and feels like shit" I wood look into why and what materials made it so. If the I find the gear good, I don't give a crap what it's made out of, unless I want another one.

And from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I find LTDs and ESPs nearly identical in terms of the sound quality and feel, and as a disclaimer I don't give a flying **** if ESPs have wood that has been jizzed on by the emperor of Japan himself.
#18
Quote by Guitar Sushi
I work in a guitar shop and have tried about 5 different Horizons and load and loads and loads of high end LTDs.

Bottom line, the sound is the nearly the same. I really don't look into woods if I don't see a reason. For example if I play a guitar and I think "this sounds and feels like shit" I wood look into why and what materials made it so. If the I find the gear good, I don't give a crap what it's made out of, unless I want another one.

And from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I find LTDs and ESPs nearly identical in terms of the sound quality and feel, and as a disclaimer I don't give a flying **** if ESPs have wood that has been jizzed on by the emperor of Japan himself.


That's odd,because every ESP model I've played has felt,sounded,and performed better than any LTD model I've ever played.Not o say that the higher end LTD models are bad,but none of them could hold a candle to their ESP counterparts in my experiences.

WARNING!: THIS USER HAS BEEN KNOWN TO BE AN OPINIONATED ASS. ALWAYS USE CAUTION WHEN READING POSTS AND NEVER USE NEAR AN OPEN FLAME.USE ONLY AS DIRECTED.KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.







#19
Quote by Guitar Sushi
I work in a guitar shop and have tried about 5 different Horizons and load and loads and loads of high end LTDs.

Bottom line, the sound is the nearly the same. I really don't look into woods if I don't see a reason. For example if I play a guitar and I think "this sounds and feels like shit" I wood look into why and what materials made it so. If the I find the gear good, I don't give a crap what it's made out of, unless I want another one.

And from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I find LTDs and ESPs nearly identical in terms of the sound quality and feel, and as a disclaimer I don't give a flying **** if ESPs have wood that has been jizzed on by the emperor of Japan himself.


I couldnt care less if you were the owner of guitarcenter

what you said was wrong,doesnt matter where you work ...

and if you dont give a flying **** about the harware or the quality of a guitar,why should anyone give a flying **** about your opinion on how it plays?its useless to the TS..
#20
The quality of the ESP Horizon you could purchase would (as a number of people already mentioned) definitely be better than the high-end LTD 1000 series. Buying an LTD 1000 series however is not a 'bad' option as these guitars are still of great quality for mass produced guitars. If you have the money i'd definitely go for the ESP but there is NOTHING wrong with the LTD option as well, not to mention a lot of pro ESP players use their LTD line as well.

Another option you could look in to (unfortunately it is set neck though) is the Schecter BlackJack ATX FR because it does have the Ebony fretboard you are looking for. The Schecter will have a little bit of a fatter neck though in comparison to the ESP or LTD.

On the Schecter Damien Elite I would say a big NO. In comparison to the LTD even it's not worth it, the H1001FR or MH1000FR or M1000 (very similar just different design and the M uses an Alder body instead of Mahogany) would be a much better choice than the Damien Elite. That being said if you're ok with spending $1800 on a guitar then the ESP is very much worth it. If you feel that it is too much for your budget then settling for an LTD is a fine choice as well.

Just to extend things a little farther, on your profile it says you have a Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II (which would be comparable in quality to the LTD guitar) which to my knowledge generally comes with a rosewood fretboard not an ebony (unless you have a particular version with an ebony fretboard). You say you have a Fender, is it American made or Mexican made? If Mexican then again the LTD is in the same 'quality' range but if your Fender is an American made one then getting the ESP would be more comparable in terms of quality of materials such as woods (if anything the ESP may have better hardware than the typical $1000ish American Strat).
I ask this because if you're used to playing American made guitars a Japanese (ESP) guitar will be at the very least on par with these guitars. If you're playing a mexican strat and a epiphone (korea or indonesia i believe?) then an ESP will be a big jump in quality and an LTD will be roughly on par quality-wise... just something to consider.
Last edited by AkiraSpectrum at Sep 11, 2010,
#21
Quote by archenemyfan
I couldnt care less if you were the owner of guitarcenter

what you said was wrong,doesnt matter where you work ...

and if you dont give a flying **** about the harware or the quality of a guitar,why should anyone give a flying **** about your opinion on how it plays?its useless to the TS..


That was just offensive mate. You're saying I don't know guitars because I care more about the sound and feel than the build materials. I said I care about sound quality and feel, and will overlook build materials if the sound quality is good. I am protesting against this general feeling in UG that certain materials are just purely better which is not the case. I have played Ibanez prestiges with equal sustain or better than neck-thru ESPs.

Oh wait, I see what you would like me to do. Pick up the LTD, play it. Pick up the ESP, play it, and if I think them similar then I have to think "No wait, this one has better specs, I better imagine it sounds better."

And again, from personal experience. Specs and price, while give a great indication are not applicable in all cases of how good the guitar is. Some people believe handmade is always better than factory made: wrong. Neck-thru is always better than bolt-on: wrong. Mahogany is always better than basswood: wrong. OFR is always better LFR: wrong.

Just because things are right 90% of the time, there are arrogant exceptions. And yes I did say it, there are some LFR's that are better than OFR's (very few). So please don't try and descredit me because my opinion doesn't match up with your spec sheet.
#22
Quote by AkiraSpectrum
The quality of the ESP Horizon you could purchase would (as a number of people already mentioned) definitely be better than the high-end LTD 1000 series. Buying an LTD 1000 series however is not a 'bad' option as these guitars are still of great quality for mass produced guitars. If you have the money i'd definitely go for the ESP but there is NOTHING wrong with the LTD option as well, not to mention a lot of pro ESP players use their LTD line as well.

Another option you could look in to (unfortunately it is set neck though) is the Schecter BlackJack ATX FR because it does have the Ebony fretboard you are looking for. The Schecter will have a little bit of a fatter neck though in comparison to the ESP or LTD.

On the Schecter Damien Elite I would say a big NO. In comparison to the LTD even it's not worth it, the H1001FR or MH1000FR or M1000 (very similar just different design and the M uses an Alder body instead of Mahogany) would be a much better choice than the Damien Elite. That being said if you're ok with spending $1800 on a guitar then the ESP is very much worth it. If you feel that it is too much for your budget then settling for an LTD is a fine choice as well.

Just to extend things a little farther, on your profile it says you have a Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II (which would be comparable in quality to the LTD guitar) which to my knowledge generally comes with a rosewood fretboard not an ebony (unless you have a particular version with an ebony fretboard). You say you have a Fender, is it American made or Mexican made? If Mexican then again the LTD is in the same 'quality' range but if your Fender is an American made one then getting the ESP would be more comparable in terms of quality of materials such as woods (if anything the ESP may have better hardware than the typical $1000ish American Strat).
I ask this because if you're used to playing American made guitars a Japanese (ESP) guitar will be at the very least on par with these guitars. If you're playing a mexican strat and a epiphone (korea or indonesia i believe?) then an ESP will be a big jump in quality and an LTD will be roughly on par quality-wise... just something to consider.



yeah, my strat was my first guitar so it is made in mexico 600 something US. and also the les paul is an epiphone with a rosewood $800 something (china but inspected and essembled in the US). plus the takamine g340sc is a rosewood. The takamine is probably the highest quality guitar I got right now. the epiphone being the most expensive. The bump up in quality is going to be a real plus to me because My guitars are good, but they all have small flaws that make them really distinguishable between a mass produced and a guitar that maybe was mass produced, but better quality with no flaws. and since the epiphone has a quilted maple top (which I love) the horizon is going to be a kickass looking ax when I get it. the emgs are a plus and the ebony fretboard plus the floyd and neck thru make it a dream to have and play.

you guys are a really big help. Thank you a lot
#23
Quote by H.I.Shredder808
yeah, my strat was my first guitar so it is made in mexico 600 something US. and also the les paul is an epiphone with a rosewood $800 something (china but inspected and essembled in the US). plus the takamine g340sc is a rosewood. The takamine is probably the highest quality guitar I got right now. the epiphone being the most expensive. The bump up in quality is going to be a real plus to me because My guitars are good, but they all have small flaws that make them really distinguishable between a mass produced and a guitar that maybe was mass produced, but better quality with no flaws. and since the epiphone has a quilted maple top (which I love) the horizon is going to be a kickass looking ax when I get it. the emgs are a plus and the ebony fretboard plus the floyd and neck thru make it a dream to have and play.

you guys are a really big help. Thank you a lot



I'd guess that the LTD would be about the same quality as your LP and might even be a little better (I prefer the quality of LTD to Epiphone in general). Sounds like you're going for the ESP? Wow that will be a fairly noticeable difference in quality for sure. Also remember that its not always easy to 'feel' the quality of instruments made in Japan or USA or whatever because the difference in quality is mainly in the type of materials (better wood/material and workmanship etc.) although im sure you will notice a difference from the mere feel of the guitar.

Make sure you post pics when you get that ESP, it will be freakin' AWESOME.
#24
Quote by AkiraSpectrum
I'd guess that the LTD would be about the same quality as your LP and might even be a little better (I prefer the quality of LTD to Epiphone in general). Sounds like you're going for the ESP? Wow that will be a fairly noticeable difference in quality for sure. Also remember that its not always easy to 'feel' the quality of instruments made in Japan or USA or whatever because the difference in quality is mainly in the type of materials (better wood/material and workmanship etc.) although im sure you will notice a difference from the mere feel of the guitar.

Make sure you post pics when you get that ESP, it will be freakin' AWESOME.



Yeah, the feling the quality at first, second or even the fifth time you play something is hard to notice, especially when your not comparing a costco guitar with a gibson. my strat is surprisingly really good for the money I paid for it. The maplehas a ton of rings on it so it doesnt look all to white and part of the neck is actually curly maple......guess I got a freak strat from the factory. the neck came semi glossed and the setup was perfect. as far as the others. the LP's string action was way too high and the alnico in the bridge (to me) is complete crap and very similar to the one in the neck. but overall the guitar is good and since the neck is more C shaped and it has a set neck construction with a primer coat. its pretty fast for how thick it is. the bookmatched QM top is very nice in the midnight ebony and the grover tuners + hollowbody make it have a great sound. Id happily trade it for another more "Shred-Oriented" guitar though. and since I have an acoustic, the shadow mag feature isnt really needed since the takamine is pretty top end and Im kind of rusty in my flamenco playing :P
and yes, in a few months (got things to pay for first that was unbenounced to me at the time of the first post) ill for sure post pics and videos of me playing and also reviewing the horizon. Im not gonna be too apt on taking it for gigs and on stage though since its so beautiful and costs so much. and since the people in hawaii arent too interested in metal and shredding.
#25
Quote by Guitar Sushi
That was just offensive mate. You're saying I don't know guitars because I care more about the sound and feel than the build materials. I said I care about sound quality and feel, and will overlook build materials if the sound quality is good. I am protesting against this general feeling in UG that certain materials are just purely better which is not the case. I have played Ibanez prestiges with equal sustain or better than neck-thru ESPs.

Oh wait, I see what you would like me to do. Pick up the LTD, play it. Pick up the ESP, play it, and if I think them similar then I have to think "No wait, this one has better specs, I better imagine it sounds better."

And again, from personal experience. Specs and price, while give a great indication are not applicable in all cases of how good the guitar is. Some people believe handmade is always better than factory made: wrong. Neck-thru is always better than bolt-on: wrong. Mahogany is always better than basswood: wrong. OFR is always better LFR: wrong.

Just because things are right 90% of the time, there are arrogant exceptions. And yes I did say it, there are some LFR's that are better than OFR's (very few). So please don't try and descredit me because my opinion doesn't match up with your spec sheet.


I know..I apologize for that..I was seriously sober when I posted that

I agree with you on that,but what I'm saying is usually the quality of ESP products are better than LTD ones..so without going into sweeping conclusions and saying that LTD's are as same ESP's but made in a different country,you could've stated that" I've played some LTD's which feel really good and perhaps better than some ESP's",thats true,I believe you there, because no matter how good a particular company's QC is, there is still a chance for a lemon to come out...

when it comes to this case,what matters to the TS is the general verdict of a company,not some exceptions that you and I might have played/owned...and the general verdict is ESPs are better than LTD's

about the ,ahogany>basswood thing and handmade>CNC cut thing,I'm with you |I strongly believe that there is no such thing as "A wood is better than B wood" each have their own special characteristics

about the LFR thing,I've a played alot of LFR's that (IMO) are better than OFR's..they all start with the letter E


have a nice day
#26
I have a similar problem. I wanted to get Ibanez EGEN8 (herman li signature) but after looking around in that price class (600 euro) I saw the LTD MH-327 (STR). I usually prefer LTD over Ibanez because of neck and pickups. the LTD seems so great. neck thru body, seymour duncans, floyd rose special (haven't hear a lot of good things about Ibanez tremolos). I play a lot of things like canon rock. I love neo classical things. which would be the best choice? or even better, is either of them a good choice?
#27
Quote by Mayu!~
I have a similar problem. I wanted to get Ibanez EGEN8 (herman li signature) but after looking around in that price class (600 euro) I saw the LTD MH-327 (STR). I usually prefer LTD over Ibanez because of neck and pickups. the LTD seems so great. neck thru body, seymour duncans, floyd rose special (haven't hear a lot of good things about Ibanez tremolos). I play a lot of things like canon rock. I love neo classical things. which would be the best choice? or even better, is either of them a good choice?


stop threadjacking

if you want an opinion make your own thread
#29
Quote by AkiraSpectrum
The quality of the ESP Horizon you could purchase would (as a number of people already mentioned) definitely be better than the high-end LTD 1000 series. Buying an LTD 1000 series however is not a 'bad' option as these guitars are still of great quality for mass produced guitars. If you have the money i'd definitely go for the ESP but there is NOTHING wrong with the LTD option as well, not to mention a lot of pro ESP players use their LTD line as well.

This is EXACTLY how things are. I couldn't have said it any better. +1 dude!
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