#1
Caution: Wall of Text.

FOR YOU TL;DR PEOPLE:
-I play ALL styles of metal, mostly the more heavy stuff.
-I need an amp.
-I don't gig.
-I don't plan on gigging.
-I don't have a band.
-I play in my room.
-I can't have something that will peel my skin off if I put it past 0.5 volume.
-$600 budget.
-I'd rather not buy used.


FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO CAN PROVIDE AN ACTUALLY USEFUL ANSWER:
I'm getting new gear. I've already decided on a guitar, it has a mahogany body + EMG actives. I play...EVERYTHING metal. I play: Deathcore, death metal, metalcore, thrash metal, progressive metal, progressive death metal, EVERYTHING....! And I need an amp. I don't gig at all, I just play in my room, and my budget is around $600, give or take.

At first, I was looking at a 6505+ 112 combo. Then, after some asking/research, I concluded that it WOULD in fact give me the gain I needed, but it would be too loud.

After that, I started looking at a Blackstar HT-5 combo with a high-gain distortion pedal before it. Then I realized that I wanted a lot of stupid effects that would run me $1927838273 in pedals, and that the Blackstar isn't really suited for metal, even with a distortion pedal.

So after that, I started looking at a Peavey Vypyr with the Sanpera II footswitch. That would give me all the tonal variety and effects I need, but I'm throwing away sound quality.

Then, I decided that I could get a multi-effect pedal, like this one and run it into the Blackstar Combo.

Then, I decided to post here in frustration because I can't decide.

What should I do?
Would the effect-pedal make the Blackstar sound like a digital amp?
Are there any other effect pedals or amps that would suit me better?

My life doesn't depend on this, because GC has that 30 day return policy, but I'd like to dive straight into something I'd like.
Last edited by Aturaya at Sep 14, 2010,
#2
Buy a set of nice monitors and a copy of Peavy Revalver. In your case I would recommend Revalver over Amplitube because the high-gain amp sims in Revalver are better (less noise), and being indecisive, you’ll spend less time dicking around because Revalver doesn’t pile on as much audio-engineer-geekery as Amplitube.
#3
Finally, someone who knows how to make one of these threads correctly!

And truly, for bedroom jamming, solid state is fine. And yes, a digital pedal would be pointless and make you sound digital in front of a tube amp.

Also, I've had modelling amps and I've had processors. So I'd say stay away from a Valvetronix and get either a Vypyr or get a POD XT or X3 and hook it up to some good speakers.

I'm trying to get rid of my VT to get a POD XT to hook up to my surround sound for home jamming.
#4
Quote by jpnyc
Buy a set of nice monitors and a copy of Peavy Revalver. In your case I would recommend Revalver over Amplitube because the high-gain amp sims in Revalver are better (less noise), and being indecisive, you’ll spend less time dicking around because Revalver doesn’t pile on as much audio-engineer-geekery as Amplitube.


I contemplated a setup like that a bit, but seeing that my desk is already a jungle of wires, and I don't like being in my cramped up room ALL THE TIME. And there's always that ever-so-slight chance that I feel like showing my hidden talents at school...
#5
Quote by Levi79
Finally, someone who knows how to make one of these threads correctly!

And truly, for bedroom jamming, solid state is fine. And yes, a digital pedal would be pointless and make you sound digital in front of a tube amp.

Also, I've had modelling amps and I've had processors. So I'd say stay away from a Valvetronix and get either a Vypyr or get a POD XT or X3 and hook it up to some good speakers.

I'm trying to get rid of my VT to get a POD XT to hook up to my surround sound for home jamming.


Haha, I always feel like my threads are too long and that nobody will read them. I just hate when I see "i play rock and need amp pls".

I assumed I would be right about the digital pedal. And I might just go with the POD X3 with that footswitch or whatever it is. And I could use some nice speakers, I'd just have to find a way to get rid of all the damn clutter on this desk. I guess if I ever want to leave my house I can just throw the POD before my lovely 10 watt starter kit amp.

The POD would let me record using a method other than my laptop's microphone too..
#6
Quote by Aturaya
Haha, I always feel like my threads are too long and that nobody will read them. I just hate when I see "i play rock and need amp pls".

I assumed I would be right about the digital pedal. And I might just go with the POD X3 with that footswitch or whatever it is. And I could use some nice speakers, I'd just have to find a way to get rid of all the damn clutter on this desk. I guess if I ever want to leave my house I can just throw the POD before my lovely 10 watt starter kit amp.

The POD would let me record using a method other than my laptop's microphone too..

Haha, I'm with ya buddy.

LOL and yeah. That used to be my setup, Digitech RP90 in front of the starter 10 watt. That pedal wasn't too great on its own, letalone with that horrible amp haha.

Now I have a Vox VT15 I'm trying to get rid of so I can get a POD XT used with all the updates for 135 bcuks! haha.

I would never use a processor on stage other than as a backup, but for at home jammin and maybe even some recording, the multi FX are definitely the way to go. As long as you dont hook it up to your speakers you got with your windows 95 computer and it will sound good.
#7
99% of metal bands are using a setup that consists of:

Guitar > Amp

or

Guitar > OD > Amp

I'm confused as to why you need a ton of effects, but regardless... new you're really limiting your options. The only thing I can really suggest is a Jet City JCA20H and a decent cab, but you're not going to have an effects loop so... I dunno.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#8
Quote by MatrixClaw
99% of metal bands are using a setup that consists of:

Guitar > Amp

or

Guitar > OD > Amp

I'm confused as to why you need a ton of effects, but regardless... new you're really limiting your options. The only thing I can really suggest is a Jet City JCA20H and a decent cab, but you're not going to have an effects loop so... I dunno.

Effects are nice to have, even if you don`t use them often. If you want to try out different effects and see what you like its awesome to have a processor lying around at least. And if hes just bedroom jamming he doesnt need a tube amp at all really.
#9
We typically ignore well written threads but....

Digidesign Eleven Rack is coming down in price. Play it thru headphones or powered monitors. You can take it to school and plug it into the PA. The one I played sounded freakin' awesome and I would expect software updates will make it even better.
#10
i like effect processors, not to play live, but just for the fun of experimentation. it might be the cheapest and easiest way for him to get a good set-up without buying a full amp etc. if your after good tone then steer clear of the boss gt-10 IMO. X3 live is good. and then a powered monitor to play through will be fine.

a solid state amp will do fine, but i think bang for buck if your not going to ever gig, a good metal pedal and a quality powered monitor will do you fine. who cares what it looks like, its just for the room. i think either way you go you will need a boost/OD/metal pedal to get the dirt you need to play metal with nice smooth tones. but thats just what id do in your situation, mostly coz i done that for the first 2 years i was learning guitar.
#11
Vypyr Tube sounds better than the HT-5 IMO.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
What the hell is a G&L.



Quote by Flux'D
Gay & Lesbian I think, the box smelled funny
Greg what did you send me??
#12
i recently got a pair of m audio monitors from amazon for $120 (AV-40)

they sound good so far, they seem to be about the same as this sony boombox that i had. the monitors are about 4 inches vs the 3.5 from the sony box.

i run my boss GT-10 through it, so you should be OK if you decide to buy a multi effect setup or any modeling setup. plenty loud for me(i dont even turn the AV40 past 1/4)

my dream setup would be like a Jet city with a loop so i can keep using my GT-10 or some sort of amp or power amp with a serial loop for my bedroom setup.

i am pretty happy with my AV40 purchase, could always argue for the BX5As though now...damn ;o
#13
Metal without making the paint peel? You're doing it wrong.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#14
I'd recommend looking at the jet city JCA 20 with the dave friedman "brown eye" mod. It can do metal on its own and if you add a boost in front of it you should get to "death metal" status relatively easily.
My Gear:
Schecter Hellraiser FR Special.
EpiG400 lefty w/Dimarzio X2N/ Irongear Hot Slag
Peavey 6505+112 (head)
2x12 Cab w/ WGS v30 / gt65
GFS Tuner
TS-9 (Keeley ish mod)
Dunlop GCB-95 Wah truebypass
ICP Gstring Decimator
#15
The thing is, if you didn't get it from the starting post...I don't just want an amp and distortion pedal. A half stack seems like overkill for my bedroom, which isn't very large anyways, mind you. And even with that, I don't get anything I want. Sure, all the effects I really want are reverb, delay, and maybe a wah, but that will run me a pretty a pretty big chunk of cash. Along with that, I'd like to have the capability to record. A multi effects pedal or POD gives me...all of this.
#16
Quote by Aturaya
The thing is, if you didn't get it from the starting post...I don't just want an amp and distortion pedal. A half stack seems like overkill for my bedroom, which isn't very large anyways, mind you. And even with that, I don't get anything I want. Sure, all the effects I really want are reverb, delay, and maybe a wah, but that will run me a pretty a pretty big chunk of cash. Along with that, I'd like to have the capability to record. A multi effects pedal or POD gives me...all of this.

For sure. As long as you get a good quality processor they are your best bet for playing alone and effect experimentation. You should check out used man. I'm getting a POD XT with all the upgrades for $135.00. The upgrades for PODs are 100 bucks I think, just by themselves. I saw a POD X3 Live used with one pack for 350. Considering they are 500 new with no upgrades, as long as it works good used is your best bet IMO.
#18
about the 6505+ being too loud, it really doesnt matter. people dont realize that if you're playing in a bedroom situation, it makes no difference whether you have a 1.21 gigawatt amp or a microcube. so either get some really nice modeling setup with a pod or revalver or something, but honestly i'd get the 6505+. really nice low volume tone when i played it, has direct out for recording, and you never know when you might be joining a band/gigging
periphery/bulb!

gear:
Ibanez RG7321 w/ D-sonic in bridge

Peavey 5150 mk ii & b52 4x12 cab

line 6 podxt for recording

Quote by AsOneIStand
Head and Cab for $130? You don't need a head and cabinet, you need a psychological examination.
#19
Quote by Levi79
I saw a POD X3 Live used with one pack for 350. Considering they are 500 new with no upgrades, as long as it works good used is your best bet IMO.

The POD X3s come with all the model packs, stock.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#20
if you want to be conservative, look at the multi effect boards from Boss/line 6 and get a some speakers.

this gives you the modulation effects and wah. the goal is finding an output(power amp or powered speakers) that would suit your application in the bedroom.

the 6505 sounds great though, direct out and can be bedroom amp, but no effects
#21
Quote by MatrixClaw
99% of metal bands are using a setup that consists of:

Guitar > Amp

or

Guitar > OD > Amp

I'm confused as to why you need a ton of effects, but regardless... new you're really limiting your options. The only thing I can really suggest is a Jet City JCA20H and a decent cab, but you're not going to have an effects loop so... I dunno.



Whats so good about an effects loop?
doesn't it just put effects before the power amp, or gain stage? I'm not too keen on amp guts.
And I've heard ANYTHING can be ran in front of the amp, only reverb might get kinda bad, and should be put in an effects loop.

And I dun get how you said he's not gonna have an effects loop, implying that in a bad way when 99% of the metal bands, like you said only really use an OD.


And my vote goes to a 6505+ 112, I tried the head (I know, not much justice when it's compared to the Chinese made combo. but the cab was a valveking 4x12) and it was WONDERFUL! EMG's really kinda differ from the Fred and PAF Pro I tried on it. It has decent cleans, get a good verb, hit the bright switch and turn up the presence a little bit, set the resonance and 3band EQ to your liking.

Really, a great amp.
#22
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson
about the 6505+ being too loud, it really doesnt matter. people dont realize that if you're playing in a bedroom situation, it makes no difference whether you have a 1.21 gigawatt amp or a microcube. so either get some really nice modeling setup with a pod or revalver or something, but honestly i'd get the 6505+. really nice low volume tone when i played it, has direct out for recording, and you never know when you might be joining a band/gigging



that may be the case with that amp, but I know that my B-52 AT100 sounds a lot better cranked than it does at quieter levels... of course, now that I think about it, with it turned down it still sounded as good as my solid state Crate GFX212 which sounds pretty good.

as for multi effects pedals - they're perfect for someone new to the world of effects. I had a boss me-50 for a couple of years and it really taught me a lot about what I like. it sounded pretty good, the only thing I didn't like was the distortions. an amp's distortion generally sounds a lot better... if it's a good amp.
#23
6505+ 112. Seriously. There are volume controls for a reason.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#26
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Just get the Vypyr 60 for now until you can get a serious budget. It has a headphone jack. It is $450. Leaves you change to get the Sanpera II pedal you will need to go with it.


oh and.....nice OP

Nah man, why would he spend the same money on a SS 112 60 watt when he could spend the same money on a used Tube 112 60 watt (6505+ 112)

I`d def get the 6505, if your going to spend the money, get a real amp.

EDIT: That is, if you get a decently sized amp rather than just a processor.
Last edited by Levi79 at Sep 15, 2010,
#27
Quote by LolCatGuitar
Whats so good about an effects loop?
doesn't it just put effects before the power amp, or gain stage? I'm not too keen on amp guts.
And I've heard ANYTHING can be ran in front of the amp, only reverb might get kinda bad, and should be put in an effects loop.

And I dun get how you said he's not gonna have an effects loop, implying that in a bad way when 99% of the metal bands, like you said only really use an OD.

An effects loop is so he can run time based effects before the distortion, if he was just using an OD, he wouldn't need a multi-fx unit. Sure, you can run whatever you want, where ever you want, but some things will sound much better in a loop and others will sound better out front.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#28
TS, as has been said, just get a 6505+.

It's a preamp distortion amp, not a power amp distortion amp. Since the tone of that amp comes from the preamp, you can make it quiet and still have it sound very good.

And before you say 60W is too much, I run my 100W ValveKing in an apartment. It can't be said any better than oneblackened said it: Amps have volume knobs for a reason.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Sep 15, 2010,
#29
Does anyone have the dimensions of a 6505+ 112 Combo? It looks freaking huge, that's my problem. Along with that, I'd need a delay pedal to get...delay. And I'd like a looper. I'd probably need a distortion pedal for high gain at low volumes, or to use as an EQ. I'd probably need a noise suppressor to avoid buzz. To do all of that I would need to buy one used. For like..$15. Which I doubt is gonna happen.

If I decide to buy a physical amp, it WILL be the 6505, but I don't have the money for all the effects I'd like/need.
#30
Quote by Aturaya
Does anyone have the dimensions of a 6505+ 112 Combo? It looks freaking huge, that's my problem. Along with that, I'd need a delay pedal to get...delay. And I'd like a looper. I'd probably need a distortion pedal for high gain at low volumes, or to use as an EQ. I'd probably need a noise suppressor to avoid buzz. To do all of that I would need to buy one used. For like..$15. Which I doubt is gonna happen.

If I decide to buy a physical amp, it WILL be the 6505, but I don't have the money for all the effects I'd like/need.

No, you really wouldn't.

Loopers aren't as useful as you'd think.

Delay I can see as well as a noise gate.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#31
Quote by oneblackened
No, you really wouldn't.

Loopers aren't as useful as you'd think.

Not live maybe, but they're really useful for writing new songs.

Also, a Noise Gate will not get rid of buzz. That's caused by the grounding of your house and the only thing that's going to get rid of that sound is a power conditioner. A well built amp should not need a noise gate. I haven't used my ISP Decimator since my 5150 combo, which was the first tube amp I ever owned.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#32
Quote by MatrixClaw
Not live maybe, but they're really useful for writing new songs.

Also, a Noise Gate will not get rid of buzz. That's caused by the grounding of your house and the only thing that's going to get rid of that sound is a power conditioner. A well built amp should not need a noise gate. I haven't used my ISP Decimator since my 5150 combo, which was the first tube amp I ever owned.

Yeah, my 6505 is a mother****er for noise. Like bad.
Hopefully getting a Mesa or ENGL in the next year or so though.
#33
Quote by MatrixClaw
A well built amp should not need a noise gate.

This.
Although I do use a noise gate, but only because I have a shitty, noisy power supply but I don't want to run my pedals on batteries and I cant be bothered buying a decent power supply
#34
Quote by Aturaya
Does anyone have the dimensions of a 6505+ 112 Combo? It looks freaking huge, that's my problem. Along with that, I'd need a delay pedal to get...delay. And I'd like a looper. I'd probably need a distortion pedal for high gain at low volumes, or to use as an EQ. I'd probably need a noise suppressor to avoid buzz. To do all of that I would need to buy one used. For like..$15. Which I doubt is gonna happen.

If I decide to buy a physical amp, it WILL be the 6505, but I don't have the money for all the effects I'd like/need.


From Peavey: Packed, the dimensions would be 30"L x 16"D x 26"H. Take an inch or two off of those and you should get around the actual dimensions of the amp.

And no TS, for the second time, this is not a poweramp distortion amp. You absolutely will not need any type of distortion pedal for this amp. Heavy ass distortion is what this amp was built and designed for, and nearly all of it's tone comes from the preamp.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#35
Quote by MatrixClaw
Not live maybe, but they're really useful for writing new songs.

Also, a Noise Gate will not get rid of buzz. That's caused by the grounding of your house and the only thing that's going to get rid of that sound is a power conditioner. A well built amp should not need a noise gate. I haven't used my ISP Decimator since my 5150 combo, which was the first tube amp I ever owned.

I agree with that.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#36
If you decide to go for a Pod, wait a few months and the new Pod HD line should be out, which should atleast be worth waiting for to increase your options.