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#2
thats what i call some tasteful shredding
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#3
oh haha i thought you were looking for a good example and i was gonna suggest marty friedman! good taste brotha
#6
Quote by palm mute
I like their earlier guitarist better for good phrasings, Chris Poland



peace sells > rust in peace for me personally, but i prefer marty
#7
wow we think alike, that solo is a masterpiece, imo one of the greatest guitar solos in metal, another good one is the unforgiven
#9
Quote by rickyj
peace sells > rust in peace for me personally, but i prefer marty


I think they are equally awesome, but I like Poland's phrasing just a bit more than Marty's
#11
^^^

That's not bad.

You do have to admit Duane Allman impressed you deep inside though. Come on, where else have you heard an improvised solo that diverse on a single chord?

I'm being nice and not going jazz king on you either hahahaha
#13
you know, usually i would've posted something from miles' quintet days or something of bird's. maybe scott lafaro's solo on "s'posin'" when he played with victor feldman. but honestly, in this history of jazz class i'm in i've realized how much of a BAMF louis armstrong was. i think we take people of that era for granted because we think they're "old."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVdLd43bDI

solos start at 1:25
armstrong's at 1:48

it's just funny to see these white dudes shredding 8th and 16th notes and then louis comes on and completely cleans them out with his solo. it's so rhythmically out there, especially for the time.

the old thing about playing fast isn't just a cliche, it's true. anyone can play a string of sixteenth notes. as musicians we all have a tendency to rush. with no metronome, start out playing any tune and go on for 6 minutes doing an AABA chorus, then letting everyone have their solos. then wrap it up going back to the head. see if you're still in time. you've probably gone up by 10 bpm at least.

but man, the way he can space his notes and let them resolve at the perfect times. my mind is blowed.
#DTWD
Last edited by primusfan at Sep 15, 2010,
#14
Quote by griffRG7321
I can't say i liked either of the solos posted so far *puts up flame shield*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9IeRpjqRCs

1.52 (The bend at 2.08 ) and 2nd solo at 3.02

*puts up bigger flame shield.



Dude you're absolutely right. The tone is horrible as well. A lot of off key bends that just dont work. I thought he must know a lot about theory until he named the relative minor of E a D# in a teaching segment.

At best this is "okay" I'll sit with you next to the flame shield.

I like that link to the Art of Noise! Tasteful playing.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Sep 15, 2010,
#15
Quote by Sean0913
Dude you're absolutely right. The tone is horrible as well. A lot of off key bends that just dont work. I thought he must know a lot about theory until he named the relative minor of E a D# in a teaching segment.

At best this is "okay" I'll sit with you next to the flame shield.

Sean



Are you talking about the original post Marty Friedman video?

It's really choppy sometimes, that's why I put the Duane solo. You know that choppy sound that people have before they get their feel right?
#16
Quote by primusfan
you know, usually i would've posted something from miles' quintet days or something of bird's. maybe scott lafaro's solo on "s'posin'" when he played with victor feldman. but honestly, in this history of jazz class i'm in i've realized how much of a BAMF louis armstrong was. i think we take people of that era for granted because we think they're "old."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVdLd43bDI

solos start at 1:25
armstrong's at 1:48

it's just funny to see these white dudes shredding 8th and 16th notes and then louis comes on and completely cleans them out with his solo. it's so rhythmically out there, especially for the time.

the old thing about playing fast isn't just a cliche, it's true. anyone can play a string of sixteenth notes. as musicians we all have a tendency to rush. with no metronome, start out playing any tune and go on for 6 minutes doing an AABA chorus, then letting everyone have their solos. then wrap it up going back to the head. see if you're still in time. you've probably gone up by 10 bpm at least.

but man, the way he can space his notes and let them resolve at the perfect times. my mind is blowed.

The Satchmo solo that's always really gotten me is his recording with the Hot Five of "West End Blues" in 1928. That solo is amazing.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#19
Quote by AlanHB
Here's a perfect example of phrasing and counter-point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvRnLaS8bI&p=F84DECAABF83B6E6&playnext=1&index=3


I saw a serious looking asian guy with a classical guitar and I thought it was going to be some amazing classical playing and then he started and I laughed out loud!

Here's my submission:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2rsBIHxOSM
12 fret fury
#20
I nominate Guthrie Govan, Michael Romeo, the first solo here (even the guitarist on the right came in late because of how awesome it was), Allan Holdsworth (solo at :52) and a bunch of other guitarists I can't remember right now...

Put me behind the flame shield too! I couldn't even finish the video the tone/improv was so bad :/
#21
Here's a perfect example of good phrasing and how it ties to the background music if anyone is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKf2ylnsbEI

Starts at 1:22, and the crazy bend at 1:39/1:40 is like a transition point for the drums and bass. I do despise the tone though
Quote by blackflag49
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#22
ive noticed that the first step we (as musicians) take towards figuring out exactly what good phraing is is that good phrasing=sparse phrasing. I'd say the solo that deubked this was george garzone (really the entire piece) on tribute to trane; which is sadly not on youtube but a sample can be heard here:
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1197019/a/Fringe+In+New+York.htm

the first motive is amazingly strong and from there he engages in an amazing display of non-wanking, well phrased, melodic, very outside musical pyrotechnics.

also, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qXSUQ6B3CI

the way christian uses space and long flurries of notes, as well as the sheer melody and dymanics and sadness and outrage expressed completely changed the way I think about improvising a solo and about what I expect in a solo.
#24
i hope guys no that "good phrasing" is completely subjective right? for example, sure that first post had some good playing and built up and such, but it did nothing for me. didnt excite me, didnt draw me in, didnt tell a story to me. but its all opinion.

i like this intro to eric johnson's cliffs of dover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnqpOFcBiMM

heres another good one i like pretty much over one chord.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlOJXL4j6k
Last edited by Blind In 1 Ear at Sep 16, 2010,
#25
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear


i like this intro to eric johnson's cliffs of dover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnqpOFcBiMM

heres another good one i like pretty much over one chord.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlOJXL4j6k


EJ

Quote by Sean0913
Dude you're absolutely right. The tone is horrible as well. A lot of off key bends that just dont work. I thought he must know a lot about theory until he named the relative minor of E a D# in a teaching segment.

At best this is "okay" I'll sit with you next to the flame shield.

I like that link to the Art of Noise! Tasteful playing.

Sean


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

Another one (maybe one of the best) of Malmsteen's solos 1:30, the vibrato and little nuances get me every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0r6NpkJdro&feature=related

Quote by Pillo114
^^^

That's not bad.

You do have to admit Duane Allman impressed you deep inside though. Come on, where else have you heard an improvised solo that diverse on a single chord?

I'm being nice and not going jazz king on you either hahahaha


I don't know what it was, might have been the vibrato or the tone but i didn't like it (don't hate me ) and for the love of god don't unleash the jazz king
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Sep 16, 2010,
#26
Quote by Sean0913
Hell, I'm nominating THESE two...

Nuff said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f64XZRRs0jA

Sean


THANK YOU. You are doing it right! Carlton & Ford kill it, as always.

Of course we all think different things about phrasing, so it's hard to nail down the specifics.

But in all honesty. The TS's solo from tornado of souls in no WAY qualifies as good phrasing. He is just constantly spitting idea after idea onto the listener. Each lick from either the first half or second half of the solo could have been chopped up into its constituent components and then rearranged and it wouldn't effect the overall tone of the solo by much at all. There is no contrast between NEGATIVE space where nothing is played and his melodic ideas.

The problem with most shredders is that they don't know when to shut up, or they are completely oblivious to what is happening behind them because it's their solo spot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeQ_S8G16Rw Check out this Zappa solo. It epitomizes the way he actually opened his ears and LISTENED to the backing band.
Last edited by Windwaker at Sep 16, 2010,
#27
Quote by Windwaker
THANK YOU. You are doing it right! Carlton & Ford kill it, as always.

Of course we all think different things about phrasing, so it's hard to nail down the specifics.

But in all honesty. The TS's solo from tornado of souls in no WAY qualifies as good playing. He is just constantly spitting idea after idea onto the listener. Each lick from either the first half or second half of the solo could have been chopped up into its constituent components and then rearranged and it wouldn't effect the overall tone of the solo by much at all. There is no contrast between NEGATIVE space where nothing is played and his melodic ideas.

The problem with most shredders is that they don't know when to shut up, or they are completely oblivious to what is happening behind them because it's their solo spot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeQ_S8G16Rw Check out this Zappa solo. It epitomizes the way he actually opened his ears and LISTENED to the backing band.

Tornado of Souls is by far one of my favorite rock solos. It has this great sort of twisting, snaky quality to it. It warbles up out of nowhere and is really very melodic. To me, it's one of those super catchy solos that you can sing.

You're right in that it doesn't have much negative space, but busy is a good thing sometimes. It fits so perfectly in the context of the song to the point that it's permanently married to it in my mind.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
Last edited by DaddyTwoFoot at Sep 16, 2010,
#28
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
Tornado of Souls is by far one of my favorite rock solos. It has this great sort of twisting, snaky quality to it. It warbles up out of nowhere and is really very melodic. To me, it's one of those super catchy solos that you can sing.


I don't disagree that it's a good solo. It is tastefully melodic, and very catchy. My point was that the phrasing of it isn't particularly good.

*edit - Just realized my first post said i thought it wasn't good playing rather than good phrasing. Fixed that for clarity.
Last edited by Windwaker at Sep 16, 2010,
#29
Quote by griffRG7321


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not



Actually I wasn't, and my comments were on Marty, not Yngwie. The bends were out of key and sound it. The tone of his guitar was grating and annoying, I hated it. Not to take anything away from what he's done but this example was not even something I liked, much less would call "good phrasing". I'm not a fan of Yngwie the person, but his stuff is a lot more interesting (Thanks to Paganini and Lizst, of course).

Sean
#30
I have to say, tornado of souls is not really my kind of song, but I did not find the solo to be wanky and liked the phrasing. I feel like good phrasing (is completely subjective AND) does not have to involve sparse rhythms and minimalistic melodic statements (though it can and often does) but more has to do with the way the melodic statements work. Is the soloist telling a story and making music or just playing notes. Clifford Brown, Pat Martino, charlie parker and John Coltrane all played a lot of notes, sometimes with little to no rhythmic variation or space, but I'd say they all had great phrasing, as in their long lines there were small fragments of melody that together made a cohesive musical statement. I'd argue that a long line is not neccesarily antithetical to good phrasing if the soloist makes it a connection of several phrases, rather then just one big phrase.
#31
Well, phrasing is the act of constructing phrases (and rhythmic structures and stuff), so I guess if you have to analize the phrasing you have to analize the structure of the section first (which I suppose is the solo of a song in these cases)...

Although I don't know if in improvisations/solos the structure of the periods is more valued than the structure of the phrases themselves (in improvisation what I suppose stands out more are independant phrases linked together by some musical idea instead of the structure of the section itself)...
But I dunno, maybe there are some kind of classification for these kind of things that I don't know of
#32
Quote by tehREALcaptain
I have to say, tornado of souls is not really my kind of song, but I did not find the solo to be wanky and liked the phrasing. I feel like good phrasing (is completely subjective AND) does not have to involve sparse rhythms and minimalistic melodic statements (though it can and often does) but more has to do with the way the melodic statements work. Is the soloist telling a story and making music or just playing notes. Clifford Brown, Pat Martino, charlie parker and John Coltrane all played a lot of notes, sometimes with little to no rhythmic variation or space, but I'd say they all had great phrasing, as in their long lines there were small fragments of melody that together made a cohesive musical statement. I'd argue that a long line is not neccesarily antithetical to good phrasing if the soloist makes it a connection of several phrases, rather then just one big phrase.

Thank you! That's what I wanted to say but didn't know how to phrase. Tornado of Souls has great phrasing. Good phrasing does not mean negative space whatnot. It often includes that, but a long line can still have good phrasing as long as it's made up of many good phrases as that solo is.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#34
I'm not much of a shredhead, but Reb Beach here caught my attention with this piece here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWGQWu6mSWM

the part he plays at 1:48 is definitive Reb Beach, his own sound IMO. If you heard something like that anywhere else, you'd know it was him.


And this is probably the classic example of "good phrasing"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDC3ade3JxU&feature=related
#35
Quote by DiminishedFifth
Since I just REALLY got exposed to him, I nominate Eric Johnson.




Check out Manhatten, Desert rose, Lonely in the night, Battle we have won, Camels night out, SRV, Pretty much anything off the Venus Isle album.
#36
Quote by griffRG7321


Check out Manhatten, Desert rose, Lonely in the night, Battle we have won, Camels night out, SRV, Pretty much anything off the Venus Isle album.

My teacher actually sat there and soloed to Manhatten and East Wes for awhile. That's what impressed me about Eric Johnson... the only other song I had heard was Cliffs of Dover, and, while it was impressive, it didn't "catch" me.

Imma have to download his stuff.
#38
Quote by mtforever
For phrasing, not many people can beat Mick Taylor. This solo is pretty much all just the C major scale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9aV92n_st4

Guitar solo here is pretty nice too, I love the tone, I love the vibrato.



Beautiful phrasing! Completely agree...melodic, heartfelt, and tells a story and builds theme by theme.

Thanks for the share!
#39
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I nominate Guthrie Govan, Michael Romeo, the first solo here (even the guitarist on the right came in late because of how awesome it was), Allan Holdsworth (solo at :52) and a bunch of other guitarists I can't remember right now...

Put me behind the flame shield too! I couldn't even finish the video the tone/improv was so bad :/


Yea, Michael Romeo is pretty much amazing! haha'

My vote goes to Wes Montgomery tho, i cant get enough of his playing, i wish i could phrase like him like all the time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MNNox5HeN4&feature=related



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#40
Quote by maximumrocker
Yea, Michael Romeo is pretty much amazing! haha'

My vote goes to Wes Montgomery tho, i cant get enough of his playing, i wish i could phrase like him like all the time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MNNox5HeN4&feature=related


True that, It's kind of unbelievable that that guy apparently knew almost no music theory.
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