#1
I was talking to my teacher about jazz improv. today and he explained it to me like this.

3rds | Rock territory
5ths |Rock territory
7ths |Funk/ska/ Jazz territory
9ths | Jazz
11ths | Jazz

He basically told me most jazz musicians frown upon the use of 3rds and 5ths whilst improv. because it sounds like rock and roll, and he also told me that as you get higher within one scale, it starts to begin another.

The example with this he gave me was that if you're in C, and you're working up the 7,9,11 notes, you eventually enter the G7 triad.

You guys ever got taught something similar to this? Is this correct info? It's hard to get my head around...
Quote by SlackerBabbath
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#2
I think soloing from the point of veiw of extended tones is a very cool thing.

However, I would not say that jazz players frown on any interval, they're there to be used.

Be they 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths 7ths, 8ths, 9ths 10ths, 11ths, 12ths, 13ths, 14ths or 15ths

Playing a scale in compound intervals, (9ths, 10ths, 11ths, 12ths, 13ths, 14ths or 15ths) you can get many beatiful sounds (something that Joe Diorio does a lot), not acessible in the simple intervals category.

However I think classifying and restricting certain intervals to certain musics is stupid.
#3
Most generalizations are weak, but this seems pretty close to accurate in my estimation. I'd add Pop music with the 7ths and some 9ths, especially guys like Elton John, Prince etc. Doesnt mean thats the only place you can use them. Tell that to John Mayer. Say what you will about him as a person, but the guy isn't playing garden variety chords by any stretch.

Sean
#4
If he's referring to common types of chords used in jazz, I'll accept that 7th, 9th, and 11th chords are used a lot.

If he's suggesting that you shouldn't use 3rds or 5th in your improvising, I don't see what the point is in limiting yourself.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#5
Quote by AlanHB
If he's referring to common types of chords used in jazz, I'll accept that 7th, 9th, and 11th chords are used a lot.

If he's suggesting that you shouldn't use 3rds or 5th in your improvising, I don't see what the point is in limiting yourself. An 11th is only a 3rd an octave away anyways


*cough* 4th... *cough*

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Sep 16, 2010,
#6
Quote by Sean0913
*cough* 4th... *cough*

Sean


Damn you're fast Sean - I realised my mistake as soon as I sent it. Let's call it our little secret

Edit: Seriously, it was like a space of 10 seconds
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#7
I think what he was trying to say is that generally , rock music and the like hang around the thirds and fifths, and if I want to start sounding "jazzy" I should start learning these extended range notes!

That 3rd an octave higher is a juicy piece of info! I wish I knew all these short cuts! :P

What do you guys know about this C going into G business? :P
Quote by SlackerBabbath
My ideal woman would be a grossly overweight woman who would happy go jogging, come home all sweaty and let me put my dick under her armpit while she shuffles a pack of cards.

Stay classy, pit.
#8
Quote by N_J_B_B

That 3rd an octave higher is a juicy piece of info! I wish I knew all these short cuts! :P


Ahh, cmon. I edited it so fast he had to re-edit my quote to get the original mistake back in.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#9
Quote by AlanHB
Ahh, cmon. I edited it so fast he had to re-edit my quote to get the original mistake back in.


Can't be erasedd!!! Haha.

So it's the 4th an octave higher? Cool.
Quote by SlackerBabbath
My ideal woman would be a grossly overweight woman who would happy go jogging, come home all sweaty and let me put my dick under her armpit while she shuffles a pack of cards.

Stay classy, pit.
#10
Quote by N_J_B_B


That 3rd an octave higher is a juicy piece of info! I wish I knew all these short cuts! :P


Alan - your super Mod Powers are indeed impressive! You must have pushed edit and erased the exact second I was hitting quote. You had me blinking my eyes and wondering if I were "Imagining things!" Very cool. Making me question my own reality, this early in the morning.

LMAO!!!

Disregard the 3rd "info" NJBB Its incorrect.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Sep 16, 2010,
#11
Well, since rock swings on the punch of 3rds and 5ths, I would say your teacher is partially right, as far as which notes a Rock musician will emphasize as opposed to which notes a Jazz musician will emphasize.
However, Jazz is all about freedom. Jazz doesn't limit itself, especially certain forms like Jazz fusion or Free Jazz or Bebop/Hard Bop. Jazz is defined by that element of doing whatever you want.
#12
Quote by Sean0913
Alan - your super Mod Powers are indeed impressive! You must have pushed edit and erased the exact second I was hitting quote. You had me blinking my eyes and wondering if I were "Imagining things!" Very cool. Making me question my own reality, this early in the morning.

LMAO!!!

Disregard the 3rd "info" NJBB Its incorrect.

Sean


Interestingly enough, I don't seem to get those "edited" comments at the end either, so you could never be sure whether it was there or not!

Even though I recognised it was.

I have a feeling my morning may be earlier than yours. I'm going to sleep.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#13
Quote by Sean0913
Most generalizations are weak, but this seems pretty close to accurate in my estimation.


I would say that it's an equally weak and misleading generalization.

I don't like the idea of telling someone they should avoid certain notes (like 3rds and 5ths) in order to fulfill some sort of idealistic requirement that ignores common practice.

3rds and 5ths are quite abundant in Jazz solos..... and 7ths and upper extensions can certainly be found outside of jazz.

Quote by N_J_B_B


He basically told me most jazz musicians frown upon the use of 3rds and 5ths whilst improv. because it sounds like rock and roll, and he also told me that as you get higher within one scale, it starts to begin another.



That sort of elitism can really be detrimental to your playing. Rather than focusing on music, you get hung up on what other people think.

Most good musicians I know aren't looking down their noses at others based on the genre they are into. Thats for the pretentious.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 16, 2010,
#14
The thirds are used a lot in jazz as melody lines and guide-tones.

In jazz, when comp'ing it is normal to leave the 5th out of dom7 chords to allow the soloist to alter the 5th at will without having and underlying clash due to the rhythm section.

Also, 9th chords are used heavily on funk music. Just about any of the classics are based around 9th chords.
Last edited by MikeDodge at Sep 16, 2010,