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#1
so im getting the jet city jca2112 and it doesnt have an effects loops which kinda worries me. the only pedals i'll ever run through it will be a wah,overdrive, eq and delay. could i just put it in front of the amp and still get a good tone?
#2
I wouldn't worry about it. depends what you want to do with your eq mostly, but the rest of that stuff should just run fine right in the front.
#3
what wouldnt work though, just for reference? like phasers and synth that kinda stuff?
#4
I've tried using the EQ/Delay both in front of my amp and through the effects loop, there's not much of a difference to be honest. Maybe I just can't hear it, but I notice no change.
#5
The wah, overdrive, and I'm pretty sure EQ are all perfectly fine to run out in front.

Delay is a little more iffy. In my experience it will just mean adjustments when you switch from clean to dirty. Your delay will be very loud and kinda obnoxious with the same settings as you use on clean for dirty. But it's more a matter of convenience than necessity.
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#6
The EQ in front, CAN be OK, but depending on how you set it up, it can act as a clean boost (hope yours has a master level slider)
The delay really should go in a loop. With it in front, when playing a "dirty" tone...as the delay fades out, so will the gain. Playing clean, it won't be so bad.

You don't NEED a loop, but they can be nice to have.
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#7
It'll sound fine man. All those effects were around for years before effects loops were even invented.
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#10
Quote by Cathbard
It'll sound fine man. All those effects were around for years before effects loops were even invented.

This is true.

If you play with really high gain, though, you might want a loop so you can put a gate in it.
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#11
Delay and EQ both sound way better in the loop. You can run them in front, but it's very far from ideal.

I personally would never get an amp if it didn't have a loop. It's just such an helpful and amazing feature, why would you want to spend money on an amp without one? Because the beauty of them is that even if you don't have it, you don't have to use it. Whereas on the other hand, if you want or need one but don't have one, you're SOL.
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#12
EQ is ok in front, but not as good as it is in the loop.
O.D and Wag are pretty much required in front.
Delay needs to be in the loop, unless you only plan on using it on the clean channel, or with a very light distortion (i.e Albert King Blues).
...
#13
Quote by Ranelbau
so im getting the jet city jca2112 and it doesnt have an effects loops which kinda worries me. the only pedals i'll ever run through it will be a wah,overdrive, eq and delay. could i just put it in front of the amp and still get a good tone?


Everything but the delay will sound fine thru the front end. Time-based effects (chorus, delay, reverb) sound better and function better thru an fx loop, after the preamp section.
#14
Basically, if the dirt is coming from pedals, the delay will be ok in the front end. If the amp itself is running dirty, you'll be much better with an fx loop.
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#15
Quote by Offworld92
I personally would never get an amp if it didn't have a loop. It's just such an helpful and amazing feature, why would you want to spend money on an amp without one?

Because the quality of the amp itself is more important than an effects loop?
Good amp without loop > crap amp with loop

You'd turn down a genuine Bluesbreaker from the 60's because it didn't have an effects loop? Your priorities are all twisted.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Sep 17, 2010,
#16
err....im getting alot of different opinions. is there pedal of some sort that can give me and effects loop? i dont even know if that exists...
#17
Quote by Ranelbau
err....im getting alot of different opinions. is there pedal of some sort that can give me and effects loop? i dont even know if that exists...

No. The effects loop is a point in the amp that breaks in between the preamp and the power amp. Unless you find a pedal with arms that can solder you're outa luck.
Think of it this way. David Gilmour didn't have an effects loop on Dark Side of the Moon. 'nuff said.
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#18
delay doesnt really need to be in the loop imo, i use my upfront. (mostlu because its shit in the loop), as long as you dont go too crazy with gain and repeats/tempo itll be fine, but then again mines digital... I use chorus up front too.

Reverb pedals need to go in the loop.
EQs will work better in the loop, as theyll shape the tone of the amp rather than the signal of the guitar.

^We arent david gilmour.
#19
time based effects, for example delay, work better if they are positioned after the distortion.
if you will be using a distortion pedal with the delay after it, it will be fine, but if you use the amps distortion with the delay in front of it, it wont sound as good as it can
#20
Quote by philipk
time based effects, for example delay, work better if they are positioned after the distortion.
if you will be using a distortion pedal with the delay after it, it will be fine, but if you use the amps distortion with the delay in front of it, it wont sound as good as it can

That depends on what sound you are after. In the effects loop, every repeat sounds the same with less amplitude. In front the amp is driven less by each subsequent repeat so they gradually clean up over time. Echoes in real life change timbre over time and become less harsh, running the delay in front achieves that. Running the delay in the loop sounds unnatural, if that's what you want, fine.
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#21
Quote by Cathbard
That depends on what sound you are after. In the effects loop, every repeat sounds the same with less amplitude. In front the amp is driven less by each subsequent repeat so they gradually clean up over time. Echoes in real life change timbre over time and become less harsh, running the delay in front achieves that. Running the delay in the loop sounds unnatural, if that's what you want, fine.


Does make sense.
But it doesnt change the fact that if you use alot of delay upfront/you dont set the delay to fade out itll sound like a muddy pile of warbly shit, the loop has its purpose.
Different strokes for different folks.
#22
Quote by beckyjc
Does make sense.
But it doesnt change the fact that if you use alot of delay upfront/you dont set the delay to fade out itll sound like a muddy pile of warbly shit, the loop has its purpose.
Different strokes for different folks.

You can just set up the delay so it does the same thing as repeatedly striking the string softer on each strike. Regardless of how you run it you still have to set it up so it does what you want as far as repeats and decay goes. But like I said - depends on what sound you are after. You can't really simulate manually striking the string repeatedly with decreasing force if you have it in the loop.
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#23
^Yeah you could, you could also do it completely differently.

Really you shouldnt act like simulating real echo is the right way to use delay, delay has far more possibilities and uses than that. Thats my only issue with your post.

Even so, my digital delay has a high frequency damp that will cut off more of the high frequencies (therefore pick less attack more warmth) and gain with each repeat. It's not outside of a delays possibility to simulate real echo without being put in front of the amp, analogue delay will do a decent job of it anyway.
#24
when i play with my blackheart in rehearsals i wish it had an fx loop like my marshall...

it makes a big diference... at least to my ears... if you put an EQ in the fx loop

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#25
Quote by Cathbard
Because the quality of the amp itself is more important than an effects loop?
Good amp without loop > crap amp with loop

You'd turn down a genuine Bluesbreaker from the 60's because it didn't have an effects loop? Your priorities are all twisted.


I'd just find something else that would make me happy, with all of the functions I want. If having what I want means saving up more and longer, then that's what I'll do, rather than getting something that can't do everything I want.

If there's a sound that can't be recreated by anything on the market that I want (which I can't see happening, btw), then at that point I would just get a custom amp built, or get the amp and then mod it.
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#26
the amp has enough gain that having an effects loop would be nice. i prefer some of my modulation after the gain. because distorting an effect can sound completly different than running an effect on distortion. depends on the effect and the sound you want, but thats a simple fact.

with what you have, you should be fine. a delay can often sound better in the loop, but mine works just fine out in front of my jca. would i like an effects loop on it? yes. does it need an effects loop to sound good with pedals? nope.
#27
Quote by beckyjc
^Yeah you could, you could also do it completely differently.

Really you shouldnt act like simulating real echo is the right way to use delay, delay has far more possibilities and uses than that. Thats my only issue with your post.

Even so, my digital delay has a high frequency damp that will cut off more of the high frequencies (therefore pick less attack more warmth) and gain with each repeat. It's not outside of a delays possibility to simulate real echo without being put in front of the amp, analogue delay will do a decent job of it anyway.

I didn't say that simulating real echo is the only way to run a delay. I said it depends on what you are after. And yes, I can change the high frequency decay on my Quaddy so I can get a similar thing in the loop as you say - but how many people have delays with that feature?
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#28
Not the only way, the right way.

Echoes in real life change timbre over time and become less harsh, running the delay in front achieves that. Running the delay in the loop sounds unnatural, if that's what you want, fine.


Thats what i meant, i dunno if you meant it like that, but it's how you worded it.

People who want that feature will buy a pedal with it, or as you say, run the pedal in front of the amp, even on analogue pedals without the ability to set the high end roll off they'll decay in a similar way because of the lossyness of analogue.

If you're doing fine without a loop then great. It just irks me when people say theyre pointless (not you, other people), i mean, if they were pointless, people wouldnt have bothered including them on amps.
Last edited by beckyjc at Sep 17, 2010,
#29
Quote by Cathbard
That depends on what sound you are after. In the effects loop, every repeat sounds the same with less amplitude. In front the amp is driven less by each subsequent repeat so they gradually clean up over time. Echoes in real life change timbre over time and become less harsh, running the delay in front achieves that. Running the delay in the loop sounds unnatural, if that's what you want, fine.
I suppose if you found guitar amps and pedalboards in nature this would make sense. Your explanation is based on playing a single note. But not everyone using distortion and delay is playing a single note. So whether a delay in front or behind distortion sounds good or natural depends on your distortion, your delay settings, what you're playing, and what you thinks sounds good.
#30
TBH no matter what amp i've used in the studio i've always put effects out front. JCM 900 slx's, 2000's, 800's, JTM's, Peavey Classic, AC30's and Numerous Engl's. And it was fine tbh.

*awaiting the reasons im ignorant post*
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#31
Quote by beckyjc
Not the only way, the right way.

Thats what i meant, i dunno if you meant it like that, but it's how you worded it.

Ah, I see. There was no sarcasm intended in the "if that's what you want, fine." statement but I can see how you could mistake it to be that way.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Sep 17, 2010,
#32
Quote by Offworld92
Delay and EQ both sound way better in the loop. You can run them in front, but it's very far from ideal.

I personally would never get an amp if it didn't have a loop. It's just such an helpful and amazing feature, why would you want to spend money on an amp without one? Because the beauty of them is that even if you don't have it, you don't have to use it. Whereas on the other hand, if you want or need one but don't have one, you're SOL.

+1, cant imagine not having a loop, even though many do not use them
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#33
The TS asked if you NEED a loop. The answer to that question is no. They are handy but not NEEDED. Whether people like them or not wasn't the question.
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#34
You don't NEED a good amp either. You don't really NEED to play guitar. It's fun but not NEEDED.
#35
Quote by fly135
You don't NEED a good amp either. You don't really NEED to play guitar. It's fun but not NEEDED.


Well you don't NEED to post if you're only gonna troll.

He asked if he needs an effects loop. Hundreds of thousands of guitar players get great tones without loops. They have done so in the past, they do so now, they will continue to do so in the future. No, you don't need an effects loop. The only time I would consider one necessary, AS IN YOU VIRTUALLY CAN'T USE MOD EFFECTS WITHOUT IT, is on a high-gain br00ts amp, which the Jet City 20 hardly is.
Last edited by Seref at Sep 17, 2010,
#36
Quote by Seref
Well you don't NEED to post if you're only gonna troll.

He asked if he needs an effects loop. Hundreds of thousands of guitar players get great tones without loops. They have done so in the past, they do so now, they will continue to do so in the future. No, you don't need an effects loop. The only time I would consider one necessary, AS IN YOU VIRTUALLY CAN'T PLAY WITHOUT IT, is on a high-gain br00ts amp.


I don't think he was trolling, he was just making a point.

TS asked if he could and still get a good tone. But good tone is subjective, and those artists who play without a loop may not have a tone he likes. A delay in front of an amp sounds very different to a delay in the loop. Most people use delay in the loop. Chances are high that the tone he hears in his head requires a loop.

I'm not trying to be an ass, and I don't think fly135 was trying to either. We all know that no one needs a loop. But the discussion is still valid. It still helps TS gain insight about what not having a loop will mean. TS said himself in the OP that he was worried the amp didn't have one, which probably means that he does want one, and is now looking for some kind of justification to get the amp anyway even though it doesn't have something he wants.
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#37
Quote by Offworld92
But good tone is subjective, and those artists who play without a loop may not have a tone he likes. A delay in front of an amp sounds very different to a delay in the loop. Most people use delay in the loop. Chances are high that the tone he hears in his head requires a loop.


Yes, tone is subjective. And if that's the case, none of us can tell him whether he needs a loop or not because we don't know what he considers to be a good tone. We can't assume what he probably hears in his head because he hasn't told us what styles he plays, what sound he's trying to emulate, there's no band/style information in his sig, and there's no favorite bands in his profile. Anyone's guess is as valid as anyone else's.

Therefore, the only valid advice that can be given is: find an amp with an effects loop, put a delay in front and play, then put the delay in the loop and play. If you like it more in the loop, get an amp with a loop. If you like it more out of the loop then you know you're not going to die without it.
#38
^Exactly. MY post was as useful as the one I replied to.

If you want your distortion from the preamp and you want your delay/reverb/mods after the distortion, then you NEED a loop. It's really that simple. The real question is... "do you want that?"

I like having a loop but it turns out that I like getting my distortion from pedals anyway. So the loop is not that important. I do like having the loop on my Tweaker because when I use a multifx I go straight into the loop return.
#39
Quote by fly135
^Exactly. MY post was as useful as the one I replied to.


Hardly. Cath was was answering a question and making a statement, both of which were relevant to the thread. Considering he's a retired amp technician, his opinion is that of someone with considerably more experience and therefore carries more validity.

Your post on the other hand did nothing more than antagonize.
#40
Wow and just one post above you disagreed with Cath when you said...

"none of us can tell him whether he needs a loop or not"

Maybe you should get your story straight before calling someone else a troll.
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