#1
I have a music book here - this dodgy "theory for the contemporary guitarist" one i picked up ages ago

it lists all the modes of the major scale as well as their "diatonic harmony"

for example for lydian it has:


I7 = Maj7
II7 = Dom7
iii7 = min7
iv7 = Min7b5
V7 = Maj7
vi = min7
vii7 = min7

so with this in mind, could i construct a II V I based on this, which resolved to F Lydian?
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#2
I don't think it would really work, especially since the II is a dominant 7. Have to actually try to be sure but all they did was harmonize the notes of the mode... Which ends up as a major scale harmonized but in a different order, which is good for a tonal progression.

Edit: Played it and it just ends up sounding unresolved.
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Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Sep 17, 2010,
#3
Fair enough - this book is bogus


what if you just played the triads? i played it then - it resolved ok
Quote by BlitzkriegAir
1. Get drunk
2. play pentatonic scales fast
3. throw in some divebombs and pinch harmonics
4. Get killed onstage
5. become legendary guitarist instantaneously


Quote by Holy Katana

How dare you attack the greatness of the augmented sixth?
#4
As long as you can get it to resolve to the I you're good.
I tried it with just triads and it still went to C the most strongly when I played it. The big issue there is the V I movement in C major. The G to C.
But as long as you can manage to always keep it resolving in the proper place, you can pretty much do whatever you want.
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Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Sep 18, 2010,
#5
Imaj7-II7 where II7 contains an altered bass to pedal the tonic works perfectly.

Edit: Do NOT play V.
i don't know why i feel so dry
Last edited by Eastwinn at Sep 17, 2010,
#6
It would probably not be modal (the classical theory buffs would call it F major with B natural as an accidental). but a two-V built on the f lydian mode (really just an altered two-V in f major in which the lydian mode would work over the entire progression, but calling it f lydian is more succinct and, I think avoids stupid theory verbiage) would contain the chords G dominant 7, C Major seventh and F major seventh (#11). If you want to figure out the chords to establish the tonality of a mode, you could probably just use chords from the relative major scale (so the chords in C major, but resolve to F).
#7
You don't harmonize modes in the first place. Thats why modes aren't scales.

If you did that, you'd lose the flavor of the mode right away because the intervals that define that mode are lost.

If you want to build modal harmony you'd build and customize according according to the flavor of a specific mode. Like if you wanted a bright lydian color, you'd build it around its tonic, #4, 7, 3 mainly to define it and use the other intervals to add in structure and definition.

Chords in modern modality stop being harmonizations but single sounds that set the mood and tone of the music. It's no longer about resolution, but about the mood that is set by the modal flavors. It's a whole new dimension in music that is created.

So yeah, I'd throw that book out.
Last edited by Pillo114 at Sep 18, 2010,
#8
Quote by Pillo114
You don't harmonize modes in the first place. Thats why modes aren't scales.

If you did that, you'd lose the flavor of the mode right away because the intervals that define that mode are lost.

If you want to build modal harmony you'd build and customize according according to the flavor of a specific mode. Like if you wanted a bright lydian color, you'd build it around its tonic, #4, 7, 3 mainly to define it and use the other intervals to add in structure and definition.

Chords in modern modality stop being harmonizations but single sounds that set the mood and tone of the music. It's no longer about resolution, but about the mood that is set by the modal flavors. It's a whole new dimension in music that is created.

So yeah, I'd throw that book out.



Also use the perfect 5th to make sure the #4 is not interpreted as a b5.

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#9
As people have also said, seems a bit dodge to me. For a start it states "diatonic harmony" which is interesting considering it's meant to be educating you about modes.

Secondly, if it's suggesting that these chords can now be a template for your modal enterprises, I'm not buying it. I could use any combination of these chords (the more the better) to shove the progression back to major land.
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#10
Secondly, if it's suggesting that these chords can now be a template for your modal enterprises, I'm not buying it. I could use any combination of these chords (the more the better) to shove the progression back to major land.


While I agree that the book seems iffy in its information. I think the point of the chords is basically, to find the diatonic chords of a mode of a major scale (which of course the same as that modes major scale). And just because chords are diatonic to a scale does not mean they are exclusively diatonic to a major scale or that they can't be used to modulate to another key. I think its also less about creating a modal piece and more about creating a progression that you could use a mode as a chord scale to play over, which doesn't make a ton of sense as there's not much point in using a chord scale to build a progression (as there really for playing over changes, if you write the changes you shouldn't need to think of them).
#11
modal music technically never really had chords. chords came later with diatonic music. the most that modal music had was maybe a two note harmony. and they didnt have progressions really either. it was usually a drone, or later on they had like a quick change to another "chord". so it would kinda shift back and forth between two chord fragments. which is why a lot of "modal progressions" are just two chords.

you can however construct bigger chord progressions that would require the use of a mode. BUT, i dont think its modal anymore at that point. i think it turns into diatonic with use of accidentals to better suit the chords.

so i think this book isnt exactly bogus, but it isnt exactly modal either. its a little misleading i think.
#12
so with this in mind, could i construct a II V I based on this, which resolved to F Lydian?

F Lydian is not a "key" so using tonal "key center" formulas ( ii V I) in these progressions will not work..even with triads...the pull to the tonic of the KEY is strong and demands to be resolved ... (study a bit more re: cadence)

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