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#161
Quote by progbass
Inverted 4ths bro

@ Wbat - I still love you

@the young lad - I should of been more specific. Destroy Erase Improve and Nothing is what I drew my conclusions and theories and opinons from
Nothing I could agree with as melodically there's not very much going on at all, but DEI isn't as rhythm-based as the other stuff imo. Future Breed Machine is ridonkulous.
#162
Exactly why I cited it, its easily the most cohesive of all their work. There is the unease brought on by some odd time sigs, but its mostly a 4/4 post thrash album. A good one at that.
HESSIAN HAREM
FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE HESSIAN CULTURE. STAY TRUE.
#163
Quote by dead-fish
But you did say it would do something for you.
I'm not puzzled by the concept as much as I am puzzled by you singling out powerchords. The tonal difference between octaves and powerchords is minimal, yet you insist on its importance.


It's the P5 and the P4, together they just sound bleh to me. Everything else doesn't seem to do the same thing.

You do know that perception of consonance and dissonance and "other" (we'll place the powerchord there) is completely subjective. Back in medieval times the P4 was considered a consonance, then later on it was considered dissonance. Things change from time period to time period, from person to person. There are some cases where it's masked by Symphonic means, and I happen to like that. But when you set it up repeatedly without anything else to mask it... it just won't make me feel a damn thing.
#164
Quote by progbass
@ Wbat - I still love you
I know you do.

But please, for the love of Christ, never spew this storytelling crap. It's bollocks of the highest degree.

Dismember, Entombed and At the Gates are mighty fine bands; but try as they might, they will never, ever, be able to tell a story through their riffs alone, be it oh so profound Nietzschian teachings or a recounting of the guitarist's dog furiously shagging his leg when he took him out for a walk that morning.

Just a piss poor excuse for liking one band more than the other, in my eyes.
#168
I'm not anti-punk. I love Iron Maiden and Dark Tranquillity, and I'd still sell my left nut to see Ramones live.
Quote by apple_apple
oh my god! guitarViking is a genius... respect !!!

I'm GuitarViking! Don't you forget it!
#169
Quote by GuitarViking
I'm not anti-punk. I love Iron Maiden and Dark Tranquillity, and I'd still sell my left nut to see Ramones live.


pay up
HESSIAN HAREM
FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE HESSIAN CULTURE. STAY TRUE.
#172
Quote by progbass
sure Meshuggah is alright, but its just rythymn, there is no story told through the riffs, its just "Hey we are in 11/8 now, then we'll play in 17/16, then have a 3 bar special of 27/32! LOOK HOW TALENTED WE ARE"

Unfortunatly, the music ends up devolving into sonic wallpaper. Not to say I don't enjoy the 'shug, but I recognize the music for what it is.


Codswallop. Meshuggah almost always write progression into their songs, even if it is only in a narrow spectrum of emotion. And what they might lack in "storytelling ability" they make up for a hundredfold with naked aggression. If I want storytelling I'd put on Taylor Swift.
UG FORUM
Your 21st Century Ant Farm
Corroborating Sturgeon's Law Since 2003
#173
I used to love punk rock, but once I wanted to push my limit with guitar, I grew out of punk due to the simplicity of it.

I don't hate it, I just don't listen to it anymore.
Last edited by TMF128 at Sep 20, 2010,
#174
So the last 4 or so pages of this thread have been about the aesthetic superiority of non-perfect intervals?

That's as stupid as saying that one finds the C Major chord redundant in repetition, but the D Major in the same context satisfies their interest because it is somehow more lively. It's as stupid as judging solely on a specific technique used (and we don't have to look far to see someone devalue art because it employs growls or blast beats) or even better, a specific instrument. I've even seen people decry classical music because they find violins 'tinny' or some other pathetic excuse that suggests that the listener is more interested in surface aesthetic rather than the actual content.

It is one of my strongest beliefs that great art transcends the tools, methods and aesthetic used to create it. It would be ignorant not to acknowledge that these aspects can certainly go great lengths to augment or diminish the strength of a work, but to denounce it based on these qualities alone without regards to listening to the content with an open mind is about the worst thing one can do, as it makes them discriminate entire genres based simply on some surface elements rather than on the message and overall feeling one gets of the specific composition.

I think the real problem here however, lies not in a simple personal preference. It lies most likely in being exposed to that 99% of terribly generic chug-happy metal which relies too heavily on certain genre cliches such as fast, clicky double bass and blast beats, which if used without the aid of actual composition and structure makes for really boring music.

I would suggest exposing oneself to the classics of death, black and thrash metal respectively. Only the landmarks and only the worthwhile releases, that way there would be absolutely no way that having listened to these in a holistic fashion, one would be able to conclude that the simple inclusion of repeated perfect fifths inherently make for a boring song. Because plenty of the classic bands do use this magical, groundbreaking interval with some mad distortion enhancing its ability to crush, but they employ other structural and compositional techniques that evade typical verse-chorus structure. This makes it rather hard not to respect these bands (assuming you have the ability to think and reason rationally and critically) regardless of the technique used.
I've found Jesus
Last edited by Contraband at Sep 20, 2010,
#175
Quote by Contraband
So the last 4 or so pages of this thread have been about the aesthetic superiority of non-perfect intervals?


Oh god. Here it goes.

Let me stop you right there. It isn't. It's about how one person in particular, me, doesn't like them when used in that generic, insincere repetitive way. No, I don't refuse to listen to music that does that just because of some worthless principle, I sincerely don't enjoy it. Luckily, the general aesthetic of bands that do this are more than likely dull anyway. Sure maybe it has something to do with the simplicity of the music, but that wouldn't explain how I also happen to like simple music in addition to complex music. This is very important, as everyone who's responded to me is acting as if I'm declaring war on people who happen to like the damn thing. The music you're mentioning at the bottom may or may not fall under that category because it isn't used in the way I dislike.

I seem to enjoy some genericism (though I prefer new things), but don't enjoy the same genericism when applied to powerchords. It's a mystery, indeed, but that's how it is.
#176
I hate punk music, but I respect the culture it developed etc. Its more about the revolutionary attitude than the music. Punk music is very honest.

Indie on the other hand, is basal like punk, yet tries to present an artistic pretentious image by using stupid lyrics.
#177
Quote by WizMystery

Let me stop you right there. It isn't. It's about how one person in particular, me, doesn't like them when used in that generic, insincere repetitive way. No, I don't refuse to listen to music that does that just because of some worthless principle, I sincerely don't enjoy it.


So first you concede to the fact that you don't like the context of its use, then outright deny that claim by concluding that you generally don't enjoy it regardless. Thusly (in addition to the fact that your opinion is inconsistent), you admit that when you judge music, it isn't on the merit of the actual content offered and that rather you would dismiss something as simplistic based solely on the fact of the inclusion of a specific technique.

Quote by WizMystery
Luckily, the general aesthetic of bands that do this are more than likely dull anyway.


Care to enumerate these dull variants?

Quote by WizMystery
This is very important, as everyone who's responded to me is acting as if I'm declaring war on people who happen to like the damn thing.


You'd act surprised if a Jewish individual was even slightly offended/confused after having been told from someone that they didn't approve of Judaism on the grounds that it was a repetitive religion which relied too heavily on the Old Testament, yet approved of other religions?
I've found Jesus
Last edited by Contraband at Sep 20, 2010,
#178
To be honest Judaism really beat the OT to death, especially the first five books. It's like, "OK! we get it already lol you like the Pentateuch, geez."
i am the moonstar
#179
Quote by Contraband
So first you concede to the fact that you don't like the context of its use, then outright deny that claim by concluding that you generally don't enjoy it regardless. Thusly (in addition to the fact that your opinion is inconsistent), you admit that when you judge music, it isn't on the merit of the actual content offered and that rather you would dismiss something as simplistic based solely on the fact of the inclusion of a specific technique.


No...

I first concede to the fact that I don't like a certain context of its use, then claim that I generally don't enjoy that certain context. My opinion is rather consistant, for some reason you seem to think that a person can't dislike something while respecting it at the same time. I also already stated that I would not dismiss something just because it is overly simplistic. I would however dismiss it if I didn't like it, and the simplistic generic use of powerchords might happen to be the reason for me disliking it. They're two different things.

Quote by Contraband
Care to enumerate these dull variants?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB_JsTmujIU

I know I said I like DT, but that's the certain part of DT I find overly conventional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtp9gNx7nV0

This song isn't exactly the worst but the constant use of power chords here is off-putting to me.

You should probably get the picture from those two, if not, I'd be happy to provide more examples.

Quote by Contraband
You'd act surprised if a Jewish individual was even slightly offended/confused after having been told from someone that they didn't approve of Judaism on the grounds that it was a repetitive religion which relied too heavily on the Old Testament, yet approved of other religions?


No, but I would be a bit surprised if that same Jewish person told me to die because I wasn't Jewish, which is akin to what you're doing.
#180
Quote by WizMystery

No, but I would be a bit surprised if that same Jewish person told me to die because I wasn't Jewish, which is akin to what you're doing.


All I offered was a contrasting opinion. If you're hurt this easily by ideas, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet, hmm?
I've found Jesus
#181
Quote by Contraband
All I offered was a contrasting opinion. If you're hurt this easily by ideas, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet, hmm?


I'm not getting hurt, you are. All I'm doing is defending my point of view because I don't see it to be anything out of the ordinary.
#183
Metal was somewhat influenced by punk so I don't know why they'd hate it.
#186
Quote by ColinMacIsaac0
Kid argues for 10 pages and then posts Green Day as his example of punk. Please be trolling.


ITT: People who don't read and assume things.

I figure at this point it's not worth going through the cycle again because enough evidence of my opinion being completely rational is there to see. I'm standing my ground, end of story.

Hopefully this thread will get back on topic. Discussion over.

Quote by Steve08
I'm liking all these non-metal forum regs popping into dis topik and completely missing the point


Yup...
#188
Quote by WizMystery
ITT: People who don't read and assume things.

I figure at this point it's not worth going through the cycle again because enough evidence of my opinion being completely rational is there to see. I'm standing my ground, end of story.

Hopefully this thread will get back on topic. Discussion over.


Yup...


I read the thread. I'm just saying, you can't dismiss a whole genre of music without properly listening to bands who are actually in the genre. Green Day not being included in this genre.
#189
Quote by ColinMacIsaac0
I read the thread. I'm just saying, you can't dismiss a whole genre of music without properly listening to bands who are actually in the genre. Green Day not being included in this genre.


Quote by WizMystery
I also already stated that I would not dismiss something just because it is overly simplistic. I would however dismiss it if I didn't like it, and the simplistic generic use of powerchords might happen to be the reason for me disliking it.


Quote by WizMystery
I have a feeling you just read the last few posts and then got all mad because you're assuming I'm categorizing punk in the "all powerchords" category when I'm not.


Quote by WizMystery
I'll listen to punk, just not the constant eigth note power chord/annoying angsty voice kind. You know the one I'm talking about.


Quoting... never said once that Greenday was a part of this genre.
#191
From a musical standpoint punk rock is more simple than metal but I find it equally moving.
I don't always post in the threads but when I do its random and pointless because I'm ignorant enough to think you care.
#192
Meshuggah's music is meant to throw you into a hostile time loop where up is vertigo and down is derp. Only the shitty DT bands need to throw in chord variations every second to give off an atmosphere.

Punk is mostly shit, just like metal, but of course there are those select few that are too true in what they do to pass off.
Quote by risingforce1
If you want to be good you gotta git gud
#194
ITT:

An individual was asked to enumerate the metal bands which give the Perfect Fifth a bad name.

Said individual used Green Day and Dream Theater to prove his groundbreaking point.


If you don't see anything wrong with this argument, you're a moron. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that I have misunderstood everything he has been saying up till this point, only to be then regurgitated the same drivel that has been spewed for the last four pages.

Give it a rest, will you? Maybe listen to the genre properly, get yourself acquainted with the classics and then perhaps we will be on the same page. Until then, you operate under your own assumptions about what constitutes punk and (in specific) good metal, in turn making this supposed "debate" more about semantics, since most people here (even with their infantile sense of aesthetics) would agree that Dream Theater and Green Day suck at creating viable metal.
I've found Jesus
Last edited by Contraband at Sep 21, 2010,
#195
OMGz I LUV GREENDAY!!!!
Quote by PwarDuex
your name is about as funny as a burning orphanage

#196
Quote by WizMystery
ITT: People who don't read and assume things.

I figure at this point it's not worth going through the cycle again because enough evidence of my opinion being completely rational is there to see. I'm standing my ground, end of story.

Hopefully this thread will get back on topic. Discussion over.


No, discussion not over. **** your superiority complex and **** your shit reasoning man. No one likes a stuck up asshole who thinks they know everything. You may know theory but you've made yourself seem like an autistic shit who can't appreciate the emotive aspect of punk. It's brilliance comes in it's simplicity. It's a rejection of the overwrought and ornately constructed facades put on by society. As you made you made so obvious you're some 16 year old who thinks they are perfect because they know some theory and have been bombarded with the shit wrong idea their opinion is infallible.

Well, newsflash: you're a shithead. You are a thick headed asshole who has done nothing but come across as a pretentious and self righteous prick for the whole thread. You really suck, and people like you do too. You're the people who start flame wars for being too stupid to look beyond what you find to be interesting. You;ve been contradictory the whole thread and quite honestly you seem completely unlikable. I really hope you realized that the reasons you've chosen to dislike an entire genre of music, one that holds more artistic merit than you seem capable of recognizing, are juvenile and pretentious. You are a musical pedophile. You insist on discussing music, but the way you go about it is concerning and downright inexcusable, and everyone would like nothing more than for you to stop doing it. May god, should he exist have mercy on your soul. Now please, look under sink for some Drano and eat as much as you can.
i am the moonstar
#199
yeah pretty much,
if you can't play your instrument you could always start a punk band lolol
Quote by razorback91
Im sorry, I just don't see how you could argue that hardcore isn't metal. That just seems arrogant to me.

Yes, its its own kind of metal, but its still metal.
#200
Meh, I know **** all about music theory...

...all I know is that these songs are absolute classics, they use powerchords, many show punk influences and they make me want to --> like all good metal should.

Celtic Frost - Into the Crypt of Rays
Darkthrone _ Into The Shadow of The Horns
Possessed -Burning in Hell
Pentagram - The Diest
Anthrax - Deathrider
Cryptic Slaughter - Lowlife
Venom -Acid Queen
Diamond Head - Helpless
Autopsy -Dark Crusade

(heheh yep I have nothing better to do today )
Last edited by radio_schizo at Sep 21, 2010,