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#1
I read this article in a dutch magazine:
http://www.kijk.nl/artikel/mormonen/

Here's a translation of the caption:

The mormon church spends million of dollars on a daily basis on the collection of genealogical data. By doing this, they baptized 100,000 non-mormons, including Anne Frank, Khomeini and Obama's Mother. Charity or soul-theft?


According to the official rules of Mormonism, one can only be baptized by undergoing th baptism yourself, or having a direct descendant take it for you. However, lately the mormons have been ignoring this rule, judging by the incredible amount of post-mortum baptisms.

In their defence, the Mormons claim to only "offer" baptism, and the spirits in the afterlife are free to refuse it. They to consider it their "task" to offer everybody this salvation.

GO!
Last edited by vagelier at Sep 21, 2010,
#4
Charity, actually. Mormons are really the only religion that doesn't have a punishment for non-believers. There are just higher levels of heaven for those who believe, and even higher if you "lead a righteous life." And post-mortem baptisms are another thing they believe in. It'll get you into a higher level of heaven according to their beliefs.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. If they're wrong, who cares? If they're right, hurray! More paradise!
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Last edited by Arrived+Dparted at Sep 21, 2010,
#5
To be honest, all Christians really should be doing this. I believe it's somewhere in 1 Corinthians (I think chapter 15?) where it asks something like 'why then are they baptized for the dead' indicating that in Christ's era, the Christians at the time did baptize for the dead.

And there really isn't anything wrong with it.
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#6
Where did they get this info? I can't really read dutch.
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#7
I think what they do is baptize you and you represent their soul or something.

I left that religion just before I was called to do that stuff.
#8
Quote by vagelier
In their defence, the Mormons claim to only "offer" baptism, and the spirits in the afterlife are free to refuse it.

Christ, Mormons can't even hijack souls properly.

I hope this happens to me. It's like a death-bed conversion without the embarassment of going against the stance you've held your entire life.
#9
Quote by Baby Joel
To be honest, all Christians really should be doing this. I believe it's somewhere in 1 Corinthians (I think chapter 15?) where it asks something like 'why then are they baptized for the dead' indicating that in Christ's era, the Christians at the time did baptize for the dead.

And there really isn't anything wrong with it.


Unless of course, you don't want to be.
#10
so dose this mean that Billy Mays's, and Jackson's soul is saved? i mean Jackson only molested kids cause he never had a childhood.
#11
Mormons? More like Morons...

Can I get an Amen Brother?!
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#12
who cares, it's a meaningless gesture, they can baptize me all they want after I die, I think I'd enjoy my last hurrah wasting a little church money.

but I can see how one might be annoyed at this, quite disrespectful to the peoples families
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#13
AMEN!

In all seriousness I don't have a huge issue with it unless it starts appearing outside of the Mormon databases, but from what I've heard they occasionally do this to people who are still alive, which I have a much bigger problem with.
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#14
Quote by Kensai
Where did they get this info? I can't really read dutch.

From a dutch magazine. That's why I translated it, I couldn't find any english article on it. Before calling BS, said magazine has proven to be pretty reliable.

I am fairly surprised that most of you don't actually care that after your death you are turned into a member of a religion you didn't choose for. It seems somewhat creepy to me that they are winning people like this...
#15
Quote by vagelier
It seems somewhat creepy to me that they are winning people like this...

What do you mean 'winning' people?
All this is, is Mormonism practising a doctrine that was originally in Christianity, but had subsequently disappeared.
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#16
Quote by Baby Joel
What do you mean 'winning' people?

Getting more members of their religion...
#17
Quote by vagelier
I am fairly surprised that most of you don't actually care that after your death you are turned into a member of a religion you didn't choose for.

It's hard to care about something you find very, very silly.
#18
Quote by vagelier
Getting more members of their religion...

And how is this bad? It's no different than Buddhists 'winning' people because Buddhism has a strong emphasis on karma.
Really, it's just a doctrine that Mormonism utilizes. There isn't anything wrong with it.
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#19
Quote by vagelier
I am fairly surprised that most of you don't actually care that after your death you are turned into a member of a religion you didn't choose for. It seems somewhat creepy to me that they are winning people like this...



After death, I am dead. I can't become a member of a religion when I'm dead because I don't exist anymore.

They're not winning over anyone. They're not gaining followers. They're not increasing their influence. No one takes polls on the religions of dead people.

I genuinely don't understand how you could be upset about something like this. It's not hurting anyone.
Last edited by archangels at Sep 21, 2010,
#20
Wait, are they doing this so they can say:
"Those fine people WERE ALL MORMONS!"

Really, really low. f*ckheads.
#21
Quote by Baby Joel
And how is this bad? It's no different than Buddhists 'winning' people because Buddhism has a strong emphasis on karma.
Really, it's just a doctrine that Mormonism utilizes. There isn't anything wrong with it.

I personally am not against it, although I can understand that people wouldn't like to be made a mormon withour consent.
As for winning people, there's a different between convincing people to join a religion or to baptize their corpses.
#22
Quote by vagelier
From a dutch magazine. That's why I translated it, I couldn't find any english article on it. Before calling BS, said magazine has proven to be pretty reliable.

I am fairly surprised that most of you don't actually care that after your death you are turned into a member of a religion you didn't choose for. It seems somewhat creepy to me that they are winning people like this...

Is it this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-brauchli/theological-nonsense_b_709505.html
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#23
Quote by The_Casinator
Wait, are they doing this so they can say:
"Those fine people WERE ALL MORMONS!"

Really, really low. f*ckheads.

That is not what they're doing.
In the Mormonism theology, you can only achieve the highest state of glory (Or heaven, whatever), by being a baptised member of the church. This is pretty much the same in all Christianity branches. Mormonism is just allowing a way for everyone to achieve this state of glory, even if they lived in pre-Christian China or whatever. It's really just charity to them, and it shouldn't be seen as anything else.

Quote by vagelier
I personally am not against it, although I can understand that people wouldn't like to be made a mormon withour consent.
As for winning people, there's a different between convincing people to join a religion or to baptize their corpses.

Ah, you're referring to winning the dead blokes.
Within this concept of baptism of the dead, the whole process is essentially 'optional' for the dead people. If this is all true and dead people can be conscious of what's happening to them in the real world or whatever, they can choose to accept the baptism and join the church, or just be like 'lolnah'. It's all a choice.
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Last edited by Baby Joel at Sep 21, 2010,
#24
Even if it wont make a difference, I don't want my name disgraced with religion, that's the problem with this.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#27
Quote by metallicafan616
Even if it wont make a difference, I don't want my name disgraced with religion, that's the problem with this.

Why?

If you don't believe in a religion, I can't think of a single reason to be enraged by this happening to you. Nobody will enquire about you and have the respone 'oh, ****? He was a Mormon'. You'll just be a name on a list on some database only viewed by Mormons.

They'll think they've done good, you'll be dead. Everyone wins. Except you. Who's dead.
#29
Religion is so silly.

I bet if I head to my local cemetery right now with a vacuum cleaner that has a a holy cross painted on it and claimed that I'm collecting people's souls for Christianity, people would believe me.
#30
But they didn't wear the special underwear?! How can they be Mormon without the special underwear?!
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#31
Quote by red157
Why?

If you don't believe in a religion, I can't think of a single reason to be enraged by this happening to you. Nobody will enquire about you and have the respone 'oh, ****? He was a Mormon'. You'll just be a name on a list on some database only viewed by Mormons.

They'll think they've done good, you'll be dead. Everyone wins. Except you. Who's dead.



Lets say I made a huge leap in String Theory before I died, but unfortunately couldn't publish how I figured out you could test for the other 7 dimensions - would you take me as seriously if I was religious? no, because I clearly don't take evidence too seriously anyway as I'm irrational enough to be religious. Unless they specify that I didn't choose to be mormon and it was a postmortem baptism, it's effectively libel.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#32
Quote by metaldud536
Religion is so silly.

I bet if I head to my local cemetery right now with a vacuum cleaner that has a a holy cross painted on it and claimed that I'm collecting people's souls for Christianity, people would believe me.




I would like to try this.
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#33
Quote by metallicafan616
Lets say I made a huge leap in String Theory before I died, but unfortunately couldn't publish how I figured out you could test for the other 7 dimensions - would you take me as seriously if I was religious? no, because I clearly don't take evidence too seriously anyway as I'm irrational enough to be religious. Unless they specify that I didn't choose to be mormon and it was a postmortem baptism, it's effectively libel.

Nobody would consider you religious, though.

And the amount of scientists who do think of themselves as religious renders your point irrelevant anyway.
#34
Hrmm....

As before mentioned The Apostle Paul spoke of Baptisms for The Dead is one of his letters to Corinthians. Mormons have revived this practice.

Also... You are not counted a member of the religion if you are baptized after you are dead, as before stated... Mormons believe in a spiritual afterlife where you wait and learn things. If you are baptized here then you can still choose to accept it in the afterlife.

In the end I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this... It's not like they are digging up your body to do this. It's not like they publish a list of people baptized... And if you are upset about this then you are over thinking it and slightly close minded...

They are simply trying to help people... If what they believe is true, then they are doing a great service, if what they believe is false... Then someone here on earth went into a pool and came up out of it for you... No big deal...

They aren't trying to "win people over" with this. They aren't trying to "convert" people to their religion. They are practicing something they found in the scriptures that was not being practiced by other Christian denominations... Period...

Also... if you care to argue with or ask any questions about anything I have said... I am a strong practitioner of this religion, I believe it...
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#35
Haha, I've actually gotten baptized for the dead before. It was awkward. "Felipe Alejandro Gomez, having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen." I've never been called Felipe before, I guess it's kind of funny.

Getting baptized when I'm dead doesn't matter to me in that I don't believe LDS teachings anyway. It bothers me because it's insulting. I hate how Mormons think they have a right to everything because they're "the one true church". I believe there was an issue with them baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims and they had to stop(it's possible they're still doing it, who knows). It's easy to see why one wouldn't want to be baptized, even when dead, into the Mormon church.

Also, are the dead people listed as members? I mean, when Mormons say there are so many millions of people joining the church, how many of them are just dead guys who were vicariously baptized? I just want my name left alone after I die.
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#36
Quote by fail

Getting baptized when I'm dead doesn't matter to me in that I don't believe LDS teachings anyway. It bothers me because it's insulting. I hate how Mormons think they have a right to everything because they're "the one true church". I believe there was an issue with them baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims and they had to stop(it's possible they're still doing it, who knows). It's easy to see why one wouldn't want to be baptized, even when dead, into the Mormon church.

Also, are the dead people listed as members? I mean, when Mormons say there are so many millions of people joining the church, how many of them are just dead guys who were vicariously baptized? I just want my name left alone after I die.


They aren't listed as members. Nor are they baptized into the Mormon Church.
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#37
Quote by SymereusISBack
They aren't listed as members. Nor are they baptized into the Mormon Church.

Exactly.

If you're an atheist - and one who thinks Mormonism is batshit ridiculous () - it'd be silly to add this to the list of things we're probably already pissed off about.
#39
If I'm not a member of your religion in this life, its because I made that choice. Please don't try to convert me to your flavor of religion when I'm dead. I think on my tombstone I'm gonna have written "no solicitors."

Imagine if Satanists or Scientology did something similar to this. I would think that a lot of people might be a little upset about it.
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