#1
According to manuals there are a few slight differences. The 100w has a power amp mute mode, wich allows you to mute poweramp, and leave pre on. It also has power amp dual class mode. In class AB all 4 power tubes operate in AB. In dual class the 2 outside power tubes are Cathode Biased while the inside 2 remain in AB. It produces a fatter midrange and smoother top and bottom end response.


The 50w has Power amp mode class AB/class A- AB operates power tubes in fixed Bias for full power for crisp highs and deep low end. Class A operated power tubes in Cathode Bias mode for full slightly reduced output, softer highs and lows.


I dont know what most of this means, I also know about the headroom, 3db volume difference etc.


But still dont understand. Can anyone explain this in english?

I play metal, death metal to be exact. I want super brutal tone. I dont care much about clean channels.


Can I get some input/recommendations?
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#2
I never really considered the Pittbull to be brutal in the first place... It's high gain, but not like that. I'd consider it high gain in the way that the SLO is high gain. It can do metal, but there's better for that genre.

I though you wanted the most possible headroom for modern metal anyway? If that's the case then you'd probably want the 100w.
#3
Quote by Seref
I never really considered the Pittbull to be brutal in the first place... It's high gain, but not like that. I'd consider it high gain in the way that the SLO is high gain. It can do metal, but there's better for that genre.

I though you wanted the most possible headroom for modern metal anyway? If that's the case then you'd probably want the 100w.



Such as???

More gain doesnt equal better metal tone. I played through Pitbull 100 and it was pretty much rediculous.

And in the $1000 price range what else could compare.

I guess your not understanding the question. WHY do people want more headroom???

We dont play stadiums, and all these weak clubs say turn down, your too loud. I dont have attenuator, and cant get the sound I like on volume 1
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#4
I'm not a metalhead so I don't remember clearly, but I think it has something to do with not wanting power tube saturation or something like that. For that you need headroom.

And iunno. A Pittbull doesn't seem like a chuggachugga amp. Most of Fryettes designs are high gain but they're sort of british voiced like super hot rodded JCM800s. Don't most high gain metal people go for Mark IVs/Vs/Dual Recs/5150s/6505s/etc? I know they like American voiced amps for the low end.
#5
Quote by Seref
I'm not a metalhead so I don't remember clearly, but I think it has something to do with not wanting power tube saturation or something like that. For that you need headroom.

And iunno. A Pittbull doesn't seem like a chuggachugga amp. Most of Fryettes designs are high gain but they're sort of british voiced like super hot rodded JCM800s. Don't most high gain metal people go for Mark IVs/Vs/Dual Recs/5150s/6505s/etc? I know they like American voiced amps for the low end.


Not sure about the saturation or headroom. thats what im trying to figure out.

Your right about the other amps...But IMO those amps are trash lol..I have the 6505+ and the Pitbull Destroyed it by far!!! Not even in the same amp category.
And I dont like Mesa tone...Thinking VHT or Engl
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#6
yeeeah, idk, the pitbull can do metal just fine for what I've heard, besides, lots of those 'really cool' american voiced amps are just slightly different takes on the JCM800.

like the Diamond Nitrox, since you seemed to want a listed alternative (kinda' like a really great 6505 - which happens to have a lot in common with the JCM800 - with more gain on tap, better reliability and much better cleans, goes for around $1600US), same amp used by 5FDP.
#7
Quote by maddnotez
Such as???

More gain doesnt equal better metal tone. I played through Pitbull 100 and it was pretty much rediculous.

And in the $1000 price range what else could compare.

I guess your not understanding the question. WHY do people want more headroom???

We dont play stadiums, and all these weak clubs say turn down, your too loud. I dont have attenuator, and cant get the sound I like on volume 1

Lots of headroom lets you stay clean at high volumes. Some people like that.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#8
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
Lots of headroom lets you stay clean at high volumes. Some people like that.


It's more than that. I think it's that the lower the headroom, the more power tube saturation. Power tube saturation is a very loose vintage kind of distortion. Like AC/DC crunch. Not tight and compressed at all, and metal people prefer tight and compressed tone, so they try to stay away from power tube saturation. They'd rather get their high gain tone from preamp distortion alone.


Quote by maddnotez
I have the 6505+ and the Pitbull Destroyed it by far!!! Not even in the same amp category.


Well you can't compare a $1000 amp and a $4000 amp. Not usually anyway. Steven Fryette is known for his quality.

Don't get me wrong, the Pittbull screams (in fact it's part of my dream rig), but it was always a kind of hard rock/heavy metal kind of scream to me. Not so much a br00ts thing.

I know people trust Engl for metal. Invaders and such.

If you really liked the VHT, maybe a Splawn Nitro with KT77s? Might be easier to find.
Last edited by Seref at Sep 21, 2010,
#9
Metal guitarists use loud amps because it allows them to play intensely clean passages at intensely high volumes.

Also, generally speaking, the more valves an amp has, the louder it can be (it also depends on the transformer voltages and such). And when an amp has more valves - and the transformer is wired to interact with those valves - then you often hear a tone that is more deep, present and powerful.

But most of the distortion and tone, if not all, comes from the preamp section of the amp, while the power amp valves, interacting with everything else, then simply amplifies the signal and stiffens the tone so that the distortion is not so fizzy and mushy.

Think of the classes as more of a feel thing, rather than a technical thing. Class A generally feels more spoogy and loose, while Class A/B (and the uncommon Class B) feels tighter and maybe more aggressive. It is also louder to the ears.

I'm not quite sure on the Bias thing, but I imagine that it is exactly as you said it is, after reading the manual - that it affects the feel and the interaction between the valves and everything else.


Anyway, for a death metal player the Pitbull would not be the first choice, but it certainly is capable of it. Have you tried anything by Fryette/VHT yet?
#10
[quote="
Anyway, for a death metal player the Pitbull would not be the first choice, but it certainly is capable of it. Have you tried anything by Fryette/VHT yet?[/QUOTE"]


Yes I tried the Pitbull 100 without the eq, and it pwns major butthole.

Only problem is now i cant find one in my price range. But I have a handfull of 50w to choose from.

I was thoroughly impressed with the 100w, but idk what the 50 is gonna be like.


Also I dont care about cleans so why would saturation affect me?

I get alot of venues telling me to turn my Peavey down. too loud blah blah. Only i cant get the sound i wont without having it around 3.

So I figure maybe 50w would suit me better?


Ideally I would like an Engl Savage, however I am on a $1000.00 budget.
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#11
If you don't need a clean channel, I'd go for a Deliverance over a Pittbull.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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#12
Quote by MatrixClaw
If you don't need a clean channel, I'd go for a Deliverance over a Pittbull.



Hey Matrix, was hoping you would chime in..Why do you suggest that?????

Also, im going to throw in an Engl Blackmore into the mix lol..
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#13
Quote by maddnotez
Yes I tried the Pitbull 100 without the eq, and it pwns major butthole.

Only problem is now i cant find one in my price range. But I have a handfull of 50w to choose from.

I was thoroughly impressed with the 100w, but idk what the 50 is gonna be like.


Also I dont care about cleans so why would saturation affect me?

I get alot of venues telling me to turn my Peavey down. too loud blah blah. Only i cant get the sound i wont without having it around 3.

So I figure maybe 50w would suit me better?


Ideally I would like an Engl Savage, however I am on a $1000.00 budget.
Well, I don't want to say you'll be fine with the 50 because I have never played it. But in all likelyhood, you will.

If you don't play clean passages then you should look into the Deliverance. All the Fryette amps are quite unique to each other, so you should probably try the Deliverance before you think about buying one, but it's definitely within your price range, particularly used.

It is an incredible amp, just quite a bit different than the Pitbull - definitely more brutal and organic, and with less features.

Do you seriously get asked to turn down on number 3? That is ridiculous. I sometimes practise at home on that volume. I was jamming with a drummer the other day and I had my Soldano on 4 (10:30), and it was bitchin'.

Anyway, the Fryette amps sound fantastic at low volumes; they are one of the best in the business at that in my opinion. If you can't find the tone you want at gigging volumes, you should look elsewhere, because you shouldn't really use a power attenuator with a Fryette, and the Memphis doesn't seem to have the same voicing as the other Fryette amps (bar the old Pitbull 45).
Last edited by AngryGoldfish at Sep 21, 2010,
#14
Quote by AngryGoldfish
Well, I don't want to say you'll be fine with the 50 because I have never played it. But in all likelyhood, you will.

If you don't play clean passages then you should look into the Deliverance. All the Fryette amps are quite unique to each other, so you should probably try the Deliverance before you think about buying one, but it's definitely within your price range, particularly used.

It is an incredible amp, just quite a bit different than the Pitbull - definitely more brutal and organic, and with less features.

Do you seriously get asked to turn down on number 3? That is ridiculous. I sometimes practise at home on that volume. I was jamming with a drummer the other day and I had my Soldano on 4 (10:30), and it was bitchin'.

Anyway, the Fryette amps sound fantastic at low volumes; they are one of the best in the business at that in my opinion. If you can't find the tone you want at gigging volumes, you should look elsewhere, because you shouldn't really use a power attenuator with a Fryette, and the Memphis doesn't seem to have the same voicing as the other Fryette amps (bar the old Pitbull 45).



The only problem is I only have netmusician and youtube sound clips. The deliverence on those sounded too "metallic" (not metallica, just metallic) for my tase.

This is what tone Im after. http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fef29bdc2d199cf410b1206680d2b569&topic=13664.0


This guys using a vox????wtf????
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#15
Quote by maddnotez
The only problem is I only have netmusician and youtube sound clips. The deliverence on those sounded too "metallic" (not metallica, just metallic) for my tase.

This is what tone Im after. http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fef29bdc2d199cf410b1206680d2b569&topic=13664.0


This guys using a vox????wtf????


Vox TL LE = Vox Tonelab LE. $400 Multi-fx floor unit.
#16
Quote by Seref
Vox TL LE = Vox Tonelab LE. $400 Multi-fx floor unit.



So he just runs that direct to record???

Shit maybe I should just buy one of those and keep my Peavey. Sounds killer
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#18
Quote by maddnotez
The only problem is I only have netmusician and youtube sound clips. The deliverence on those sounded too "metallic" (not metallica, just metallic) for my tase.

This is what tone Im after. http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fef29bdc2d199cf410b1206680d2b569&topic=13664.0


This guys using a vox????wtf????


I can't listen to that clip at the moment, but I just wanted to chime in and say that the VHT sounds aren't for everyone. That being said, what others have stated about all the VHTs sounding somewhat different (UL, CL, CLX, Deliverance, Sig:X) is true. In your price range you'd probably be looking at the 50/CL, Deliverance 60, and Sig:X. Make sure you give all three of those a listen and see what you think.
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#19
So technically. With all the sims and impulses. it doesnt really matter what amp you have, but how you record it?

Ive never had more of a headache trying to figure out what amp to get
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#20
Quote by maddnotez
The only problem is I only have netmusician and youtube sound clips. The deliverence on those sounded too "metallic" (not metallica, just metallic) for my tase.

This is what tone Im after. http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fef29bdc2d199cf410b1206680d2b569&topic=13664.0


This guys using a vox????wtf????
Fryette amps are generally quite metallic, i.e. stiff. That's their flavour. The beauty of the Sig:X, however, is that it can sound like pretty much anything. It is versatile beyond reason.

I wouldn't go by the netmusicians clips, anyway. YouTube is sometimes good for clips because, even though it compresses the signal, you often hear more of the natural room dynamics.

Quote by DrNick
I can't listen to that clip at the moment, but I just wanted to chime in and say that the VHT sounds aren't for everyone. That being said, what others have stated about all the VHTs sounding somewhat different (UL, CL, CLX, Deliverance, Sig:X) is true. In your price range you'd probably be looking at the 50/CL, Deliverance 60, and Sig:X. Make sure you give all three of those a listen and see what you think.
I think you're right.

Quote by maddnotez
So technically. With all the sims and impulses. it doesnt really matter what amp you have, but how you record it?

Ive never had more of a headache trying to figure out what amp to get
I thought this was for live purposes - you know, in a band?

It took me three years to finally settle on a Soldano, and I'm still not settled.
#21
I own a VHT Pittbull Ultra Lead with the EQ and KT88s. Sounds like nothing else. It paints EVERYTHING you play flat black, haha. Not exactly the amp for a cover band.
#22
Quote by BobDetroit
I own a VHT Pittbull Ultra Lead with the EQ and KT88s. Sounds like nothing else. It paints EVERYTHING you play flat black, haha. Not exactly the amp for a cover band.


cant afford that lol.....We actually just got an interface running last night. Recorded some scratch with my Peavey, didnt sound half bad...BUT now I wanna hear it with a pitbull..

Back to the o.p.

Has anyone had both the 50w and 100w Cl?
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#23
Quote by maddnotez
cant afford that lol.....We actually just got an interface running last night. Recorded some scratch with my Peavey, didnt sound half bad...BUT now I wanna hear it with a pitbull..

Back to the o.p.

Has anyone had both the 50w and 100w Cl?


Well, I mean, I've used them both, but I didn't play br00ts metal. I stayed around Iron Maiden territory, for that I liked the 50w. It was a little more aggressive, had more balls imo. The 100w has balls too, just needs to be turned up to hearing damage levels before it's made apparent.

Also I'm a mids *****. Love my mids so it was likely EQ'd in an entirely different way.
#24
Hey maddnotez, glad to see that you're interested in a nice boutique amp! First off, from my experience doing live sound reenforcement I would highly reccomend the 50 watt version. When you have the 100 watt its takes more volume to push your poweramp section and the main thing with VHT's and especially the pitbull is pushing the poweramp to get that grit and a slight poweramp distortion. So by getting the 50 watt it allows you to reach that power amp distortion! Another little note is that its cheaper to replace the tubes

I also see that you are open to Engl and I would highly highly suggest the Engl fireball with the mirror face plate. I believe its 60 or 50 watts and it's my favorite amp of all time, OF ALL TIME!

Just remember that its about what you like and what you want to hear so if you can, try to A/B switch both the amps and see which tone you like better.
#25
the deliverance sim of my axe-fx ultra has saturation, but not enough punch. an overdrive in front might just work. still, i don't think the fryettes are good with really heavy stuff except for CLX and UL.
if you favor lots of punch without the oversaturation like i do, you'd definitely go with UL. they run with kt-88's (very expensive tubes indeed). the nice thing is, it doesn't oversaturate so your ears don't fatigue as easily imo.
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#26
Saying that VHT and brutal metal don't go together is like saying Marshall and Classic rock don't.

VHT, besides a select few, are made for metal - it's what they do best.


The 100/CL and 50/CL are nice sounding amps, they can do metal no problem, but they don't have quite as much saturation and balls as the Deliverance. For what it's worth, I had a UL a few months ago... I'd always thought that would be one of my favorite amps ever after listening to countless clips of it - I didn't like it at all. It just sounded sterile and lifeless, brutal - yes, but it was just stiff and boring IMO. The Deliverance and Sig:X are where it's at with VHT.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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