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#1
Seriously. This makes me mad. This is disgusting. How the hell can he get only eight years for abusing that many kids? He would use Bebo, Facebook and MSN to get his victims then meet them in parks, lead them back to his home and abuse them. Sicko. Lucky, any child related crime means you're gunna have hell in prison. I hope he gets it. I really do. But eight years?! That's a bit short...

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#2
I kinda like how America gives you compound sentences. I mean, if you got a year for every child you groomed, you'd be away for 8,000 years.
The UG Awards exist only to instill me with existential doubt.


For me, the 60's ended that day in 1978...

Willies. Fuck the lick and fuck you too.
#3
I'd rather hell than 8 years with men who have nothing to do but get strong, and dislike child abusers. 8 years, after 8 years with those guys, knowing what he did, would more time really matter. You've got to consider he might not even live that 8 years. If he does, I don't see what more than almost a decade will do to teach him.
#4
the system should start giving realistic sentences:

grooming - 30 years - life
robbery - 10 years
assault - 20 years
sexual assault - life.

THAT is how criminals should be sentenced.

EDIT: also, why is it that when someone says life in prison, the sentences are usually 20 - 40 years, never LIFE.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Sep 24, 2010,
#5
I think he should be given a life sentence. He's always going to be a danger to children and in 8 years he'll be back on the streets, free to do it all again. Assuming he survives 8 years in prison that is
Appreciating Metal since 1998



R.I.P - Ronnie James Dio

1942-2010
#6
Well, hasn't he been a busy little bee...
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#8
Quote by Alive@myfuneral
He's always going to be a danger to children and in 8 years he'll be back on the streets, free to do it all again

You've no idea whether or not that is true, sex offenders can be reformed.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#9
Quote by TheBurningFish
I kinda like how America gives you compound sentences. I mean, if you got a year for every child you groomed, you'd be away for 8,000 years.

Maths fail! A year for every child he groomed (1000) would give him 1000 years. But yeah, I love the compound sentencing. I don't see why the UK doesn't have that
#10
Quote by Ur all $h1t
You've no idea whether or not that is true, sex offenders can be reformed.

i dont know about you, but id rather not risk it - john venables anyone?
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#11
Quote by Banjocal
the system should start giving realistic sentences:

grooming - 30 years - life
robbery - 10 years
assault - 20 years
sexual assault - life.

THAT is how criminals should be sentenced.

EDIT: also, why is it that when someone says life in prison, the sentences are usually 20 - 40 years, never LIFE.

Nope, criminals should be sentenced based on the rationale behind imprisonment (namely, retribution, incapacitation, deterrence, and reformation) not some arbitrary amount of time based on the perceived severity of the crime.
Punishment without a rationale is pointless.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#12
Quote by TheBurningFish
I kinda like how America gives you compound sentences. I mean, if you got a year for every child you groomed, you'd be away for 8,000 years.


Excellent math skills you've got there. Must have taken you years to get to that level. Haha...just kidding man. In my U.S. of A. I'd form a mob of burning torches and pitchforks that never stops chasing him. No death sentence, but always on the run from the mob. Well...off to watch pedo porn.
#13
Quote by Ur all $h1t
You've no idea whether or not that is true, sex offenders can be reformed.


Is it worth the risk? Sure, he might turn out to be a model citizen in the future but i for one would rather see him spend the rest of his days in a cell than let him go free and see him do this all over again
Appreciating Metal since 1998



R.I.P - Ronnie James Dio

1942-2010
#14
Quote by TheBurningFish
I kinda like how America gives you compound sentences. I mean, if you got a year for every child you groomed, you'd be away for 8,000 years.


he'll probably get paroled after only serving half of those 8, if he doesn't get into any trouble in prison.
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-Modest Mouse, "Novocaine Stain"
#15
lol.

Hes going to get raped and murdered in prison.

lol.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#16
Quote by Banjocal
i dont know about you, but id rather not risk it - john venables anyone?


Then what you are saying that no one deserves a second chance, you made a mistake= you are screwed for life.

It doesnt work like that.
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#17
Quote by Banjocal
i dont know about you, but id rather not risk it - john venables anyone?

John Venables didn't abuse anyone upon his release, and the British Prison system is not based on reformation.
Also, he's back in jail.

Heaps of people have been reformed, you can't base penal policy on "maybe they're not, lock them up forever and ever", that's bullshit, despicable, and useless.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#18
Quote by Ur all $h1t
You've no idea whether or not that is true, sex offenders can be reformed.

It's a waste of time and money trying to reform people who could well be unable to be reformed and don't deserve help anyway.

It's also not worth risking the public to see if the 'reform' has worked or not.
#19
Quote by Ur all $h1t
You've no idea whether or not that is true, sex offenders can be reformed.


Doesn't mean they will be. Chances are, paedo's are the way they are because of mental disorders. You can't reform them.
Seriously though, in a prison where a lot of the people in there are probably going to spend the rest of their lives in that cage...maybe in there for killing someone (maybe someone just like said sex offender)...aren't going to think twice before shutting his head in a cell block door and chucking him off the top floor balcony.
Not that I have anything against them doing that, but really he should be left to die of his own accord in an asylum, and then he be obligated to donate his brain to medical research of the kind. Should be done more often with people convicted of that sort of offence.
#20
Quote by Alive@myfuneral
Is it worth the risk? Sure, he might turn out to be a model citizen in the future but i for one would rather see him spend the rest of his days in a cell than let him go free and see him do this all over again

Yes, it's worth the risk. With proper reformative procedures and policy to ensure that there are follow up interventions outside prison (the circles programme for instance) the risk of re-offending is very low.
Countries with the lowest crime rates are not those with the worst prisons and the longest sentences, they are those with a heavy emphasis on rehabilitation, see: Norway.

Rehabilitation is what keeps kids safe, not "lock 'em up and throw away the key" policies which simply don't work, are unrealistic, and do far more harm than good leaving changed men to rot in cells.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#21
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Nope, criminals should be sentenced based on the rationale behind imprisonment (namely, retribution, incapacitation, deterrence, and reformation) not some arbitrary amount of time based on the perceived severity of the crime.
Punishment without a rationale is pointless.

if you saw what the birtish ustice system was like you would disagree.
i wasnt saying it is exactly how long i think they should be, but i think sentences need to be made much much harsher:
my uncle was hit by some gu hig on drugs driving, in a hit n run. 4 years. now, half that because the guy is high profile (pete doherty's manager). he shouldve got 10 years at least: grevious bodily harm/putting someone in a coma, fleeing the scene of a crime in a hit and run, and drugs, and driving under influence. 4 years? wtf?

i see what you mean, i was trying to say that sentences should be made harsher.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#22
Quote by Zoot Allures
It's a waste of time and money trying to reform people who could well be unable to be reformed and don't deserve help anyway.


You could apply that logic to anything that takes a risk. Think of how much more money it will cost to keep a criminal behind bars for the rest of their life.
#23
Quote by Banjocal
i dont know about you, but id rather not risk it - john venables anyone?

This is the confusion people have. Venables is VERY unlikely to do that again. That would have been a one off.

Murderers aren't likely to re-offend. They would of had as good a reason as you could've had to murder someone, i.e, self defence, revenge... They don't go round murdering random people, therefore, they're not as much of a threat as many people make out.

Thieves are very likely to re-offend. They nearly always do.

Paedo's are somewhere in the middle. There's a high chance they will though. It's like, most of us are into girls, fine that's normal. However, paedo's are into small children, which isn't normal. Their fetishes are not likely to change after 8 years in prison.
#24
Quote by GbAdimDb5m7
Then what you are saying that no one deserves a second chance, you made a mistake= you are screwed for life.

It doesnt work like that.


His molestation and abuse of children while containing child pornography was a mistake of his own doing? The man is 29 years old, he knew what he was doing, and he had a deviant plan to manipulate and do his thing with those kids.

Sure, he can be rehabilitated, but until there is a psychological/sociological way to go about that, those who have their sexual way with children are stuck in the system as being sexual deviants and offenders.

And even now, sex offenders of a similar degree can be released, but this man went too far, and can naturally be considered a major threat.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#26
Quote by NoLaurelTree000
he'll probably get paroled after only serving half of those 8, if he doesn't get into any trouble in prison.

4,000 years is still a long time.
The UG Awards exist only to instill me with existential doubt.


For me, the 60's ended that day in 1978...

Willies. Fuck the lick and fuck you too.
#27
hmm, lookign back on my posts, basically, what i was saying was not that one action should define a person for life, but i really wouldnt want to risk a childs innocence on "people can potentially be reformed". i didnt realise this would cause a shit storm
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#29
Quote by SkepsisMetal
Doesn't mean they will be. Chances are, paedo's are the way they are because of mental disorders. You can't reform them.



Ah right, I forgot that mental disorders are incurable. Guess I should stop studying this psychology stuff then ay?

Seriously though, in a prison where a lot of the people in there are probably going to spend the rest of their lives in that cage...maybe in there for killing someone (maybe someone just like said sex offender)...aren't going to think twice before shutting his head in a cell block door and chucking him off the top floor balcony.
Not that I have anything against them doing that, but really he should be left to die of his own accord in an asylum, and then he be obligated to donate his brain to medical research of the kind. Should be done more often with people convicted of that sort of offence.
Wow, how unbelievably ****ing useless is that. Not only do we already have better ways of doing stuff, you're just boring and unimaginative, donate his brain to science?


Quote by Zoot Allures
It's a waste of time and money trying to reform people who could well be unable to be reformed and don't deserve help anyway.

It's also not worth risking the public to see if the 'reform' has worked or not.


Except that we know that people can be reformed and countries which place an emphasis on reform have lower crime rates than those that don't.
It's an even greater waste of time and money to keep people who don't deserve to be behind bars for the rest of their life (see, I can make meaningless value judgements about who deserves what too) who may be reformed, and it's not worth risking their future because you're scared of the PR consequences.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#30
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Yes, it's worth the risk. With proper reformative procedures and policy to ensure that there are follow up interventions outside prison (the circles programme for instance) the risk of re-offending is very low.
Countries with the lowest crime rates are not those with the worst prisons and the longest sentences, they are those with a heavy emphasis on rehabilitation, see: Norway.

Rehabilitation is what keeps kids safe, not "lock 'em up and throw away the key" policies which simply don't work, are unrealistic, and do far more harm than good leaving changed men to rot in cells.



Explain to me how that doesn't work? If they spend the rest of their life in prison then they can't re-offend and so therefore, no one gets hurt. Its all very well releasing reformed robbers, fraudsters and other lower risk criminals but we're talking about someone who could potentially harm children again

Its all very well saying that he might be reformed but why should we bother? His crime has ruined lives and there is no justification for why he did this. People like him are the worst kind of criminal and taking a chance on them being well behaved in the future is stupid
Appreciating Metal since 1998



R.I.P - Ronnie James Dio

1942-2010
#31
Quote by Banjocal
if you saw what the birtish ustice system was like you would disagree.
i wasnt saying it is exactly how long i think they should be, but i think sentences need to be made much much harsher:
my uncle was hit by some gu hig on drugs driving, in a hit n run. 4 years. now, half that because the guy is high profile (pete doherty's manager). he shouldve got 10 years at least: grevious bodily harm/putting someone in a coma, fleeing the scene of a crime in a hit and run, and drugs, and driving under influence. 4 years? wtf?

i see what you mean, i was trying to say that sentences should be made harsher.

Why should they be made harsher? Harsher sentences don't reduce crime rates, reformative and sensible policies do. Harsher sentences don't work, they just appeal to the public lust for vengeance.
You can satisfy vengeful thoughts or you can have safer streets, pick one.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#32
1,000 children? I didn't read the article, but he abused A THOUSAND KIDS?

Put that ****er away for life.
#33
Quote by Alive@myfuneral
Explain to me how that doesn't work? If they spend the rest of their life in prison then they can't re-offend and so therefore, no one gets hurt. Its all very well releasing reformed robbers, fraudsters and other lower risk criminals but we're talking about someone who could potentially harm children again

Its all very well saying that he might be reformed but why should we bother? His crime has ruined lives and there is no justification for why he did this. People like him are the worst kind of criminal and taking a chance on them being well behaved in the future is stupid

Robbers will probably re-offend. Robbery is theft with the use of force. That's not low risk.

Read my previous post. Chances are, he won't be reformed. That's what he enjoys. I like sex with girls my age, he likes sex with girls that haven't left school. It's his way. Yeah, he may think twice about re-offending, but it won't completely reform him. I'll bet my bottom dollar on that.
#34
The first step he takes in that facility I assure you he'll be dead in the same day. From what I know the convicts who live in the big house don't take kindly to those who hurt children...especially molestors. Vigilante justice is going to overrule.
#35
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Why should they be made harsher? Harsher sentences don't reduce crime rates, reformative and sensible policies do. Harsher sentences don't work, they just appeal to the public lust for vengeance.
You can satisfy vengeful thoughts or you can have safer streets, pick one.

meh, i dont want vengance, i didnt know my uncle, but the priciple is still there: the guy did a hit n run on drugs. thats at least 3 serious illegal acts. for 4 years.

the pedo guy gets 8 years - am i the only one who reckons that sentence should be at least tripled?

i understand where youre coming from, please dont get me wrong, but i always see things on the news: a rape for example happend in my county recently. the girl was 14. the guy got 10 years. ten? only ten? i am talking mostly about severe crimes.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#36
Quote by Alive@myfuneral
Explain to me how that doesn't work? If they spend the rest of their life in prison then they can't re-offend and so therefore, no one gets hurt. Its all very well releasing reformed robbers, fraudsters and other lower risk criminals but we're talking about someone who could potentially harm children again

No-one gets hurt, except the person in jail, their families and friends, the taxpayer paying to keep them there...
The risk of re-offending in proper programmes in negligible.

Its all very well saying that he might be reformed but why should we bother? His crime has ruined lives and there is no justification for why he did this. People like him are the worst kind of criminal and taking a chance on them being well behaved in the future is stupid

People are better than the worst thing they've ever done. Nelson Mandela took actions that killed people, should he have been locked up forever, preventing all the good he did later?
That's beside the fact that many paedophiles suffer from a mental disorder that they hate and will do anything to get rid of, and a large proportion of them were themselves victims of child abuse which led directly to their later actions.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#37


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#38
Quote by Banjocal
meh, i dont want vengance, i didnt know my uncle, but the priciple is still there: the guy did a hit n run on drugs. thats at least 3 serious illegal acts. for 4 years.

the pedo guy gets 8 years - am i the only one who reckons that sentence should be at least tripled?

i understand where youre coming from, please dont get me wrong, but i always see things on the news: a rape for example happend in my county recently. the girl was 14. the guy got 10 years. ten? only ten? i am talking mostly about severe crimes.

I don't think that determinate sentences are appropriate at all really. They rather miss the point.
I don't think it should be tripled because no one has said why that would be useful, other than "He'll re-offend"; if that's the case then he shouldn't be let out at all.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#39
All it takes is one prison guard to tell one shortened part of his story to an inmate, and this guy's ass will torn to SHIT.
#40
This guy was probably completely retarded anyways so a longer prison sentence is a little harsh to be fair, he just needs therapy and re-education - he was a postman which gives you a fair insight into his mental capabilities
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