#1
i need to help

i've been trying to understand how you build a 7th chord on the guitar.
i know all the positions on how to do the chords but i want to know how you make them without knowing them.

i've been searching the net and i found that i have to use the 1-3-5-7 note in the scale.
but i can't get it work on a guitar. on the piano it's easy but i just can't seem to figure it out on the guitar.

For example: i want to make a D7 chord. The D major scale is
D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D

The first, third, fifth and seventh notes would be D F# A and C#
but the the D7 chord is A C F#..
so i'm like wtf???

please someone tell me what i'm doing wrong
"Music is for people. The word 'pop' is simply short for popular. It means that people like it. I'm just a normal jerk who happens to make music. As long as my brain and fingers work, I'm cool."
Eddie Van Halen
#2
What is generally referred to as a "seventh chord" is actually 1,3,5, and b7. So in the case of a D7 chord, that would be D, F#, A, C. The chord D, F#, A, C# is referred to as D major 7.
So basically X7 = b7 (also called minor 7), Xmaj7 = Regular 7 (major 7).

I hope that made sense.
#3
A 7th chord contains the root, the the major 3rd, the perfect 5th, and the minor 7th which is C in this case, not the major 7th. So it would be 1-3-5-b7. The group of notes you're using leads to the D Major 7th chord,
#4
7 = dominant 7 = b7
maj7 = major 7 = 7

So a D7 = 1 3 5 b7
A Dmaj7 = 1 3 5 7

The other standard 7-chords:
m7 = 1 b3 5 b7
mmaj7 = 1 b3 5 7
dim7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7
half dim7 = 1 b3 b5 b7
#5
^^ no that is just a dominant 7th chord. (also called Major-minor 7th).

You are probably having trouble because the notes don't have to be in sequence when you play the chord on guitar, like it would on piano.
Quote by sadSTATUE
Uhmmm... Well, apparently I was mentioned in a thread called "Japan and Lesbians."

Quote by Unknown_Biskit
Try typing "potatoes" with your dick then submit it.



My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfvt54j4mkiiq99
#6
whats the minor 7 note? or b7? if it's C# what's the difference between b7 and 7?
"Music is for people. The word 'pop' is simply short for popular. It means that people like it. I'm just a normal jerk who happens to make music. As long as my brain and fingers work, I'm cool."
Eddie Van Halen
#7
It depends on what type of 7th chord your trying to create.

D major 7th will be the 1-3-5-7 right out of the D major scale.

D7 (dominant 7th) uses a minor 7th as apposed to a major 7th. it would be the 1-3-5-7b

You wouldn't normally use a D7 in the key of D. D7 would occur diatonically in the key of G, functioning as the V chord (dominant)
"Swords, nature's hell sticks."- Trip Fisk
#8
Best way to learn: break it up.

Maj7 = major triad + major 7th
min7 = minor triad + minor 7th
Maj-min7th (or dominant7, or 7) = major triad + minor 7th
Half diminished 7th = diminished triad + minor 7th
dim7 (diminished) = diminished triad + diminished 7th
Quote by sadSTATUE
Uhmmm... Well, apparently I was mentioned in a thread called "Japan and Lesbians."

Quote by Unknown_Biskit
Try typing "potatoes" with your dick then submit it.



My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfvt54j4mkiiq99
#9
but isn't the D7 chord built from the D scale? since that's what i was trying to do.
"Music is for people. The word 'pop' is simply short for popular. It means that people like it. I'm just a normal jerk who happens to make music. As long as my brain and fingers work, I'm cool."
Eddie Van Halen
#10
Quote by fuelsterister
whats the minor 7 note? or b7? if it's C# what's the difference between b7 and 7?


b7 ISNT C# in D major, merely 7 people already explained that.

Let's start from the beginning; the major scale is: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
The minor scale is: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

So if you play a X7 (or dominant 7) which uses the b7 you're actually playing a note out of the minor scale. In case of D that's C. If you play Dmaj7 you're just playing the normal 7 or C# in case of D.
#11
It's pretty simple. Dominant seventh refers to a specific chord. A seventh chord constructed with the dominant of the key as its root. Here:


[U]Diatonic major harmony[/U]
Degree    Quality    incl. 7th
I         maj        maj7
II        min        min7
III       min        min7
IV        maj        maj7
V         maj        7
VI        min        min7
VII       dim        min7b5


So you see, the dominant seventh chord can only be constructed from the dominant degree. But seventh chords can be constructed from any degree.
#12
Quote by fuelsterister
but isn't the D7 chord built from the D scale? since that's what i was trying to do.



D7 is NOT D major 7
D7 IS D dominant 7


major 7: 1 3 5 7
minor 7: 1 b3 5 b7
dominant 7: 1 3 5 b7
half diminished 7: 1 b3 b5 b7
diminished 7: 1 b3 b5 bb7
Quote by sadSTATUE
Uhmmm... Well, apparently I was mentioned in a thread called "Japan and Lesbians."

Quote by Unknown_Biskit
Try typing "potatoes" with your dick then submit it.



My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfvt54j4mkiiq99
Last edited by gatechballer at Sep 26, 2010,
#13
Quote by gatechballer

diminished: 1 b3 b5 b7
half diminished: 1 b3 b5 bb7


It's already confusing for TS, dont confuse him more with wrong facts.

diminished = 1 b3 b5
diminished 7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7
half diminished 7 = 1 b3 b5 b7
#14
Quote by deHufter
It's already confusing for TS, dont confuse him more with wrong facts.

diminished = 1 b3 b5
diminished 7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7
half diminished 7 = 1 b3 b5 b7



OHHHH oops I typed diminished and half diminished backwards.....my fault, I didn't notice.
Quote by sadSTATUE
Uhmmm... Well, apparently I was mentioned in a thread called "Japan and Lesbians."

Quote by Unknown_Biskit
Try typing "potatoes" with your dick then submit it.



My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfvt54j4mkiiq99
Last edited by gatechballer at Sep 26, 2010,
#15
Quote by fuelsterister
but isn't the D7 chord built from the D scale? since that's what i was trying to do.


No, D7 (dominant 7) can be built diatonically in the key of G major and would function as the V chord.

Dmaj7 however, can be built diatonically in the key of D major and would function as the I chord.

We often explain chords using the scale of the chords root, but that doesn't mean that it is built from that scale.
"Swords, nature's hell sticks."- Trip Fisk
#16
i'm so confused.. what is diminshed and half diminished? do i need to know that to make a 7th chord? BUT YEAH i atleast i made some progress i was able to make a Dmaj7 chord.
but now how do i know from what scale i need to make the 7th chord i am trying to make?

and can anyone tell me in a retard friendly way what the b does example b3, b7

*edit* sorry for being stupid and retarded not understanding what the people that are trying to help me meen
"Music is for people. The word 'pop' is simply short for popular. It means that people like it. I'm just a normal jerk who happens to make music. As long as my brain and fingers work, I'm cool."
Eddie Van Halen
Last edited by fuelsterister at Sep 26, 2010,
#17
Quote by fuelsterister
i'm so confused.. what is diminshed and half diminished? do i need to know that to make a 7th chord? BUT YEAH i atleast i made some progress i was able to make a Dmaj7 chord.
but now how do i know from what scale i need to make the 7th chord i am trying to make?

*edit* sorry for being stupid and retarded not understanding what the people that are trying to help me meen


I apologize for the confusion. What I think you need to do is start at the beginning. I'm not trying to be mean, but in order to understand what we are saying you need a firm foundation.

A good place to start is http://www.musictheory.net/lessons , go through all of their lessons, they should help you. They have a pretty good lesson on diatonic 7th chords, but you need to understand everything before that.

7th chords are a very simple concept, but without a firm foundation in diatonic theory your not going to understand that concept.
"Swords, nature's hell sticks."- Trip Fisk
#18
Quote by mtforever
I apologize for the confusion. What I think you need to do is start at the beginning. I'm not trying to be mean, but in order to understand what we are saying you need a firm foundation.

A good place to start is http://www.musictheory.net/lessons , go through all of their lessons, they should help you. They have a pretty good lesson on diatonic 7th chords, but you need to understand everything before that.

7th chords are a very simple concept, but without a firm foundation in diatonic theory your not going to understand that concept.


thank you, this is what i needed!
"Music is for people. The word 'pop' is simply short for popular. It means that people like it. I'm just a normal jerk who happens to make music. As long as my brain and fingers work, I'm cool."
Eddie Van Halen
#19
Quote by fuelsterister
but now how do i know from what scale i need to make the 7th chord i am trying to make?

and can anyone tell me in a retard friendly way what the b does example b3, b7
You can still use the D major scale to create a D7 chord, but you're going to have to alter a pitch, because the b7 doesn't occur naturally in the scale.

So basically the symbols b (flat) and # (sharp) are accidentals. What accidentals do is they raise or lower the pitch by a half-step (which is one fret on the guitar). The flat symbol lowers the note one half-step and the sharp symbol raises the note one half-step.

So if you have a maj7 chord (1 3 5 7) and lower the 7th a half-step, you end up with 1 3 5 b7, which is the formula for a dominant seventh chord (e.g. D7).

So, let's look at the D chords you're talking about. Say you build a Dmaj7 chord from the D major scale. You have D E F# G A B C#. You take the first, third, fifth, and seventh, which gives you D F# A and C#. This is a Dmaj7 chord. But what if you want a D7 instead? Well, just take the C# (which is the 7th) and lower it a half-step. The pitch that is one half-step below C# is C. This is the b7 So now we have D F# A C (1 3 5 b7), which is a D7 chord.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#21
Quote by food1010
You can still use the D major scale to create a D7 chord, but you're going to have to alter a pitch, because the b7 doesn't occur naturally in the scale.

So basically the symbols b (flat) and # (sharp) are accidentals. What accidentals do is they raise or lower the pitch by a half-step (which is one fret on the guitar). The flat symbol lowers the note one half-step and the sharp symbol raises the note one half-step.

So if you have a maj7 chord (1 3 5 7) and lower the 7th a half-step, you end up with 1 3 5 b7, which is the formula for a dominant seventh chord (e.g. D7).

So, let's look at the D chords you're talking about. Say you build a Dmaj7 chord from the D major scale. You have D E F# G A B C#. You take the first, third, fifth, and seventh, which gives you D F# A and C#. This is a Dmaj7 chord. But what if you want a D7 instead? Well, just take the C# (which is the 7th) and lower it a half-step. The pitch that is one half-step below C# is C. This is the b7 So now we have D F# A C (1 3 5 b7), which is a D7 chord.



thank you this made me understand. my problem was that i realise the b was a flat. i tought it ment something else!
"Music is for people. The word 'pop' is simply short for popular. It means that people like it. I'm just a normal jerk who happens to make music. As long as my brain and fingers work, I'm cool."
Eddie Van Halen
#22
Quote by fuelsterister
my problem was that i realise the b was a flat.


With all due respect, but if you ask a question and somebody gives an answer you dont fully comprehend, then you should ask what it means. In the first post they'd mentioned the b7, that was the time to ask what it meant. Surely all the posts after the first were just a waste of time.

Im glad you figured it out though.
#23
let me save you some time remember one thing

all chord's are built from there major scale don't build chords strictly from a key = if you know what a key is = .

no matter if its minor major diminished whatever .
#24
Quote by fuelsterister
i need to help

i've been trying to understand how you build a 7th chord on the guitar.
i know all the positions on how to do the chords but i want to know how you make them without knowing them.

i've been searching the net and i found that i have to use the 1-3-5-7 note in the scale.
but i can't get it work on a guitar. on the piano it's easy but i just can't seem to figure it out on the guitar.

For example: i want to make a D7 chord. The D major scale is
D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D

The first, third, fifth and seventh notes would be D F# A and C#
but the the D7 chord is A C F#..
so i'm like wtf???

please someone tell me what i'm doing wrong


This is my simple to the point explanation

All 7ths in chords are b7's

With one exception... Major 7ths or Major anything. If it says Maj, 7, 9 etc. its using a Major 7th.

Major 7ths are one half step down from the root. In G, F# is Maj 7
Minor 7ths are one step down from the root. In G, F is b7

Everything uses b7s except major named chords.

For those who want to argue bb7s and pull stuff from your ass to argue chord exceptions save it. I'm staying simple and to the point.

You're welcome.

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Sep 27, 2010,
#25
Quote by Sean0913
Everything uses b7s except major named chords.

For those who want to argue bb7s and pull stuff from your ass to argue chord exceptions save it. I'm staying simple and to the point.

You're welcome.

Sean


You tell 'em.

(To those wondering about bb7's, you'll probably never use one so there.)
i don't know why i feel so dry
#26
The first time I said I didnt see the connection was toward Eastwinn and not toward the general sense of the essay.