#1
Hi

If I get a really good quality cable, such as a Monster or Mogami cable, does cable length make much of a difference anymore? These cables are supposed to be the best of the bunch aren't they, so surely they'd be able to handle the long cable lengths?

If this isn't the case, then what would you say the longest length of cable should be? I would like to have some mobility on stage, obviously, so I was thinking 10 or 18 foot cables. Would these be too long?
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#2
I've got like a 50 foot cable that I just found in my school's music room (exaggeration on length, but it's huge) and I can't really tell any difference between it and my 5-6 foot Monster cable.
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#3
I use a 20' on stage. No problems at all.
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#4
I'm certainly no expert, but I believe signal degradation is more of a problem when you get into 50-100+ foot cables. You should have no problem with cables around or under 20 feet, even with cables that aren't of awesome quality
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#5
Monster isn't all that great, FYI.

George L has really low capacitance cable, Mogami makes some good stuff....I use Canare, myself.

Let's use a made up stat. So let's say a cable has 50 picofarads of capacitance per foot. That's actually pretty good. George L is a bit lower, like 25-40, I forget.
Let's say you have a 10 foot cable going from your amp to your pedlboard, 5 feet of patch cable on your pedalboard, and a 25 foot cable from your guitar to your pedlboard.
So thats 40 feet.

50pF x 40 feet...that's about 2000 picofarads, or 2 nanofarads, or .002 microfarads. That's quite a bit of capacitance.

Enough to notice the treble loss? I think so.
A big problem? I don't think so. Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of treble loss.

But cable capacitance coupled with bad tonesucking on pedals CAN be quite bad, IMO.

EDIT: Oops! Dropped a decimal point. Fixed, now.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Oct 1, 2010,
#6
Fancy packaging and a well-designed logo do not allow a cable to overcome the laws of physics any more than the cheap cables.
#7
Quote by forsaknazrael
Monster isn't all that great, FYI.

George L has really low capacitance cable, Mogami makes some good stuff....I use Canare, myself.

Let's use a made up stat. So let's say a cable has 50 picofarads of capacitance per foot. That's actually pretty good. George L is a bit lower, like 25-40, I forget.
Let's say you have a 10 foot cable going from your amp to your pedlboard, 5 feet of patch cable on your pedalboard, and a 25 foot cable from your guitar to your pedlboard.
So thats 40 feet.

50pF x 40 feet...that's about 2000 picofarads, or 20 nanofarads, or .02 microfarads. That's quite a bit of capacitance.

Enough to notice the treble loss? I think so.
A big problem? I don't think so. Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of treble loss.

But cable capacitance coupled with bad tonesucking on pedals CAN be quite bad, IMO.


Okay, well thank you very much for that but I cringed when I heard picofarads and whatnot. Seriously. You should tone down down your answers to us average Joes. I have no idea if 2000 picofarads is terrible or excellent... But thanks anyway, I'll do a bit of research

EDIT: Actually I've just done some research and that stuff on capacitance was pretty useful, thank you. The Mogami cable I looked at had a capacitance of 47 pF/foot :O That's quite a lot isn't it? I read that a good capacitance is like, 30pF/foot :/
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Last edited by adstr123 at Oct 1, 2010,
#8
I thought it might be a bit over the head.....I couldn't think of a better way of putting it, haha.

Hmm.....
How about this? Your guitar's tone control functions as a low pass filter, much like a cable's capacitance.
Guitars typically use values of .047microfarads(μF) or .022μF.
the example I gave us about .002μF of capacitance. It's comparable, then, to the 1/10 amount of high end your tone control cuts.

Again, noticeable? I think so. But all the guitarists of yesteryear did fine with cable capacitance. It's only recently we became such worrywarts. Look how much cable must have been in Jimi Hendrix's coily cable. Yet, he sounds pretty amazing, if you ask me.
#9
There is some loss in the higher treble frequencies with a long cable (50-100ft), but even that can be fixed with a buffer. Either a stand alone one or a pedal with a good buffer. The loss is noticeable, but some people swear by it. Albert King is one of them I believe.
And Monster aren't the best cables out of the bunch.
#10
Quote by adstr123
Okay, well thank you very much for that but I cringed when I heard picofarads and whatnot. Seriously. You should tone down down your answers to us average Joes. I have no idea if 2000 picofarads is terrible or excellent... But thanks anyway, I'll do a bit of research

EDIT: Actually I've just done some research and that stuff on capacitance was pretty useful, thank you. The Mogami cable I looked at had a capacitance of 47 pF/foot :O That's quite a lot isn't it? I read that a good capacitance is like, 30pF/foot :/


The Mogami I use is 37 pF/ft. I can't remember the part number but it's the standard thickness guitar cable. Most good cables are in the 30-40 range however some like George L's, Evidence, Lava, etc. go as low as 15-20 Pf/ft.

You can basically negate the effect by putting a buffer in your guitar or after your first cable. The lower impedance of good buffers will raise the -3dB cut off point to where you can't hear it.
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#11
it'll make less of a difference, but it'll still make a difference. I basically generally try to use the shortest cables I can, for what I need them for. Obviously if you're on stage you can't use a 3 foot guitar cable, lol. But you might not need a 50ft one, you might be able to get away with 20ft (or 2x10ft if you use pedals too) or 30 ft. Etc.
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#12
Quote by jpnyc
Fancy packaging and a well-designed logo do not allow a cable to overcome the laws of physics any more than the cheap cables.



yes but cables with considerably better materials and weave structure will.\

forsaknazrael hit it quare on the nogin
#13
yeah i don't think lower capacitance cables are overcoming the laws of physics. They're working with them, if anything.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#14
****ing capacitance, how does it work?
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#15


I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#16
loosely, it's the ability of a component to store a charge (volts) exceeding that which is flowing through it. That's why you shouldn't work on your amp if you don;t know how to discharge a capacitor (cap) safely before you start mucking around.

I'm just guessing here, but with a lower farrad rated wire, the less charge it stores, meaning the more of the signal gets transmiited to the next piece of equipment (pedal, eq, amp, etc.)
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#17
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****ing capacitance, how does it work?

yea i know!

also, those ****ing magnets, how do they work?
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#18
Quote by forsaknazrael
Monster isn't all that great, FYI.

George L has really low capacitance cable, Mogami makes some good stuff....I use Canare, myself.

Let's use a made up stat. So let's say a cable has 50 picofarads of capacitance per foot. That's actually pretty good. George L is a bit lower, like 25-40, I forget.
Let's say you have a 10 foot cable going from your amp to your pedlboard, 5 feet of patch cable on your pedalboard, and a 25 foot cable from your guitar to your pedlboard.
So thats 40 feet.

50pF x 40 feet...that's about 2000 picofarads, or 2 nanofarads, or .002 microfarads. That's quite a bit of capacitance.

Enough to notice the treble loss? I think so.
A big problem? I don't think so. Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of treble loss.

But cable capacitance coupled with bad tonesucking on pedals CAN be quite bad, IMO.

EDIT: Oops! Dropped a decimal point. Fixed, now.



really good post. thanks, i learned quite a bit from this one.
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#19
Quote by Adub
loosely, it's the ability of a component to store a charge (volts) exceeding that which is flowing through it. That's why you shouldn't work on your amp if you don;t know how to discharge a capacitor (cap) safely before you start mucking around.

I'm just guessing here, but with a lower farrad rated wire, the less charge it stores, meaning the more of the signal gets transmiited to the next piece of equipment (pedal, eq, amp, etc.)
Okay, if you wanna go all serious guy on me:

That's not how it works, that's what the effect is.

It's the difference between explaining what a magician's trick does (fool you) and explaining how he does it (sleight of hand).
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