Page 2 of 3
#41
Redundancy, Redundancy, Redundancy

If you bring it, and it has ANY chance of breaking/dying/not working/getting lost, bring an extra. Even if it's not as good as your primary stuff, it beats running around like a maniac trying to find a replacement from one of the other bands.
...we came in?


Isn't this where...
#42
Awesome thread. I've nothing new to add other than to stress the advice already given on tone. Make sure your tone fits with your other band members. See the quote in my sig for my thoughts on mids.

The place I run sound at has a very nice digital sound board with a 4 band/4 parameter parametric eq for each channel. Even with that I can only do so much to fix a crap tone. If a bound sounds good on their own though I can make them sound great.
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#43
Quote by ibanezgod1973
don`t drink alcohol or consume mind altering drugs (if you are into that crap) before your set. you will fumble most of the gig and you`ll get a reputation of amateur alcoholics or druggies, you will gain a bad reputation and will never be taken seriously.



One of the local bands around my area called Ports of Aidia was finishing up their little tour and their lead singer quit.

So the bassist, who does sounds backup vocals, effect vocals and some fun noises and stuff to add to the spacious sound took on the roll of the keyboardist/lead singer as well.

He was pretty drunk when they started to play and he nailed EVERYTHING. It was fantastic. Craziest thing I have ever seen.


This is a rad thread. But it makes me scared about my pedalboard. haha.
#44
^I drink a bit just before a gig; helps calm my nerves resulting in me playing a bit better.
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Sums up whisky perfectly
#45
I'm too young to drink, I guess if I started gigging my alternative would be a can of NOS or something high in energy stuff, Monster or whatever those "hip" kids drink just doesn't cut it for me.

And no, I'm not one of those obnoxious kids that just drinks them and plays video games all day, I drink them when I need a boost
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#46
Yup, I think that's the biggest thing is just have spares. Spares for everything. Maybe 2 spares.

I played a show the other day where I set up, we start the soundcheck and no sound came out of my amp (oh crap), I isolated it down to the cable, and had to swap it for a spare I had in my bag.

It was working the night before when I packed all the stuff, so it was totally out of the blue. Stuff happens, and you're expected to be prepared for when it does
#47
This is the most important rule for any gigging guitarist, ever.

GET A PEDAL TUNER LIKE A TU-2, PITCHBLACK, OR POLYTUNE. RIGHT. FREAKING. NOW.

Nothing, and I repeat, NOTHING, looks or sounds less professional than a guitarist ear or harmonic tuning his instrument on stage. Buy a damn tuner. A good one. It'll tune better than you ever will be able too and will make you look FAR more professional.
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#48
Although it may seem obvious to many here, thought I would offer/remind others of a tip when gigging. Goes along with all the tuning related tips.

If you are playing indoors, bring your guitars (or any instrument that needs regular tuning) INSIDE at least 15 minutes early. 30 or more if preferred. Open the cases to allow them to acclimate quicker. This will give the wood time to shrink/expand properly BEFORE tuning.
This will save tuning hassles early on.

And to go along with others...If you buy only one pedal, make it a tuner.
a $400 overdrive will sound like shit without a $50 tuner.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Feb 1, 2011,
#49
Why is it that TU-2s seem to be more highly regarded than TU-3s? Was there a change for the worse?
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#50
Quote by Juared
Why is it that TU-2s seem to be more highly regarded than TU-3s? Was there a change for the worse?


People just get used to certain things. The TU2 is actually not great at +/- 3 cents accuracy.

The TU3 is pretty good, but Boss buffers

I would go for a GFS tuner if you want top notch specs at a killer price. If you want unmatched speed and accuracy, and are willing to shell out a little more, the Turbo Tuner is fantastic.
#51
Quote by denied
People just get used to certain things. The TU2 is actually not great at +/- 3 cents accuracy.

The TU3 is pretty good, but Boss buffers

I would go for a GFS tuner if you want top notch specs at a killer price. If you want unmatched speed and accuracy, and are willing to shell out a little more, the Turbo Tuner is fantastic.



I didn't read all this entire thread so I dont know if this has been said. No matter what tuner you use, make sure the rest of the your band has the same model of tuner. If you have a tuner thats accurate to +/- 3 cents and someone else in your band has one that is +/- 1 cent or closer and then you couple that with the average guitar players poor/lazy tuning habits you might be in trouble.

Also, if you have a keyboard/piano player in the band then make sure you get a tuner that can get you as close as possible and still make sure the rest of the band has the same tuner.
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#52
^Iunno man, I disagree with that. If you're both using TU-2's, besides your individual strings being up to 6 cents apart (ouch) you could be 6 cents apart from your other guitarist. That's horrid.

If one of you had a TU-2 and another a TU-3 at least you could only be a max 4 cents apart.

I still recommend getting either a GFS if on a budget, or a Turbo Tuner if you can stretch it. Nowadays there is no legitimate reason to own a tuner that's worse than +/- 1 cent. I have the ST-200 and it's absolutely worth the cash.
#53
I'd like to add a contribution to this thread specific towards the girlfriends at shows/tour thing. This advice might save you a lot of trouble and I've often found out the hard way. Disclaimer: It was never a girlfriend of mine that was brought on tour.

Top 5 reasons to never bring a girlfriend on tour whether she's yours or another bandmates'
-----------------------------

1. Drama. It will happen. Sometimes it's hard enough between all the guys in your band to remain cool with eachother after weeks of travelling. Touring together can really test your friendships. Add the triflin ho to the picture and it's even worse. Chances are the drama will occur between her and another member of your band. This will end your tour and likely your band.

2. Money. She's another mouth to feed and chances are the budget is tight enough between the 4-6 of you without your "baby" that has no contribution to the tour.

3. Comfort. If you're a real band that plans on making/saving money on the road then sleeping in your van is the best solution. Your van is cramped enough between equipment and the whole band. Add another person to the equation that really isn't necessary to the tour and it gets worse. Not to mention that girls generally like nice, comfortable beds and dont deal well with these conditions for long at all. She'll start complaining and people will get sick of hearing it (now review reason 1). If you're foolish enough you'll get a motel/hotel room because of this excessive whining (now review reason 2). Also, if you're lucky enough to get an offer from an audience member/promoter to stay at their place for the night there's a good chance if that person is a girl your insecure, jealous bitch girlfriend may not be cool with this and ruin the whole thing.

4. Hygiene. She needs way more of it than the guys do. She'll complain about this a lot as well. Meeting those needs will cost you time and probably more money. Guys should be able to go days or weeks without a shower on your. If you can't, you're probably not cut out for it, broham. I know it's gross even for us sometimes, but on the road certain inconveniences can occur. Not to mention...ROAD SNATCH. Ugh.

5. YOU ARE WORKING! If you're a serious, long term musician then realize the act of touring is what you should consider your WORK. It's not just an adventure. Your band is a business and you're always on the clock at this point. An important part of keeping your business running smoothly is developing/maintaining great relationships with your co-workers. The touring process is a great time for this happen and you'll make memories that will make you a stronger band and better song writers together. If you bring your "Boo", she will demand a lot of your time. Chances are she probably won't be willing or able to do the "guy things" your band wants to do during down time. You also need time to manage your business on the road and constantly assess your situation. Keep your personal life seperate from the business side of your band. Also, the "single and available, yet mysteriously unattainable" image is the most successful for guys in bands. Your clingy, jealous, insecure possibly future baby's mamma will do everything in her power to let her ownership of you be known where you go. Think about it.

I had originally typed a much longer version of this, but my computer froze up and I didn't have the patience to rewrite everything. This is fairly condensed. These are realistic things to think about and it can destroy your tour/band if handled incorrectly. It's much more responsible to leave the needy, nagging, expensive baggage at home. And even if you've known your lady for years, trust me, she won't be the same person after being on the road for weeks in conditions that are much more suited for men. Even most dudes that I know that have tried touring eventually broke because of their lack of comfort, food, entertainment, or GIRLFRIENDS on the road. Your "trick" will do even worse than you so just dont bring her.

Also, hidden reason #6 that I will simply name and not bother to detail. Just think about this one yourself.

6. Sexual tensions.
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#55
Quote by CodeMonk
^
Significant others should not be allowed at rehearsal as well.



Very true.


Iunno man, I disagree with that. If you're both using TU-2's, besides your individual strings being up to 6 cents apart (ouch) you could be 6 cents apart from your other guitarist. That's horrid.

If one of you had a TU-2 and another a TU-3 at least you could only be a max 4 cents apart.


Maybe you just misunderstood what I said. Some professional studio experience will teach you more than I could explain in words on an internet forum.

Look at it this way:

Tuner A is calibrated to +/- 3 cents and tuner B is calibrated to +/- 1 cent.

2 guitar players, one using tuner A the other using tuner B begin tuning up.
This becomes a matter of VISUALS.
Both guitar players tune their guitars as close to the center of their tuner's display as possible.

Center position of tuner A =/= center position of tuner B on a true mathematical level, but as far as visuals are concerned, they're both in the center position and tuned perfectly RELATIVE TO THAT TUNER'S VISUAL DISPLAY.

Chances are the guitar player will NOT communicate to one another their tuning accuracy in terms of cents. Not on stage anyway. They see their strings are tuned perfectly relative to their tuner. Problem is, the tuner's themselves are not in equal temperament.

And you can throw all of this out of the window when you introduce a piano, woodwind, brass, slide intstrument, etc...

Thank goodness human ears are so forgiving/imperfect. Including mine.
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#56
Well I've done quite a bit of session work and been gigging and touring around for years lol but that doesn't really change anything.

My point is each tuner being set to A=440hz, the manufacturing specifications require that indicating "in tune" be +/- X cents. Being dead center doesn't actually mean you're perfectly in tune, it just means you're within the spec'ed range.

If what you're trying to say is that Model X and Model Y might be calibrated slightly off A=440hz, I'd argue that there's just as much drift between 2 pedals of Model X as there is across models, and even then it's negligible.
#57
Thank you^. Someone gets what I was trying to say. I wanted to edit this example into my last post, but for some reason whenever I tried to post the edit the page froze up on me so here it is. This was meant to be an additional example to support my point.

EDIT (forgot to adress this with a practical example):

That's why if your whole band uses the same model of tuner you'll all
at least be tuned relative to eachother. Thats the whole point
of this idea. If you're all out 6 cents in one direction (and you
WILL all be out in the same direction, if you're all out in the
opposite direction you're idiots), then at least you're all equal
to eachother. If one is out 1 cent and the rest are out 6 cents,
there's your problem. You have to throw out the concept of perfect pitch and realize that in live situations relative pitch is what matters on the quick. In the studio there's really no excuse or reason not to use the same tuner.

/EDIT
-----------------------------------------------------------

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#58
Wait what?

a) That was me. And I'm still disagreeing with your point.

b) Nobody is off 6 cents in ANY direction. There isn't a tuner I can think of that would show that as being in tune.

c) If in this hypothetical situation where one person is using a +/- 1 cent tuner and the rest are using +/- 6 cent tuners, being 5 cents apart would be fantastic. Imagine if the guy with the better tuner used a +/- 6 cent tuner as well. They could be off by 12 cents. That'd get you kicked off most stages I play lol

EDIT:

d) And in this imaginary setting where some guitarists are tuned relative to each other at 6 cents off A=440hz, and like you were talking about before, a piano was introduced, it wouldn't matter that you were matched to the other guitarist(s). You'd want to be as close to in tune as possible.
Last edited by josephde at Feb 2, 2011,
#59
Oh ffs. I use a full rack tuner that makes a TU-2 look like a toy and I still often have to tweak the tuning a little. The human ear is far more accurate than a tuner unless you are tone deaf and if you use harmonics and listen for the beat frequency it's even more accurate. Also, no guitar is perfect, even if you tune it perfectly with harmonics you often need to make small compromises. Doing a quick fine tuning doesn't make you look unprofessional unless you take forever to do it.
When I first started hardly anybody had tuners and we always tuned up on stage - now it's wrong to do it that way? What a load of bollocks. If doing a quick tuning is enough to drive away the audience you really must be playing in a crappy band is all I can say. Did people walk out on Hendrix?
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Last edited by Cathbard at Feb 2, 2011,
#60
Quote by ibanezgod1973
don`t drink alcohol or consume mind altering drugs (if you are into that crap) before your set. you will fumble most of the gig and you`ll get a reputation of amateur alcoholics or druggies, you will gain a bad reputation and will never be taken seriously.


Not everyone is affected by substances the same way. I've known several bass players who will toke up before a gig and play way better just because they're more into the groove. Of course this depends on the music being played, and so on. There's nothing wrong with a beer or two either, assuming you can hold your liquor.

That said, showing up trashed is never a good idea.
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#61
Quote by Raijouta
Not everyone is affected by substances the same way. I've known several bass players who will toke up before a gig and play way better just because they're more into the groove. Of course this depends on the music being played, and so on. There's nothing wrong with a beer or two either, assuming you can hold your liquor.

That said, showing up trashed is never a good idea.

There was study done on goldfish where they got them drunk and then taught them to go through a maze. (yes, the 45 sec memory is a myth) Then they changed the water with fresh water and sobered them up - they forgot how to get through the maze. Then they added alcohol to the water again and they remembered.
Moral of the story - if you rehearse drunk/stoned - play drunk/stoned. If you rehearse sober/straight, play sober/straight.

And so endeth the lesson.
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#62
Just want to post to enforce the pedal tuner point. (not the argument between using the same tuner though. I'm not knowledgable enough on the ins and outs of tuners for that! )

My band all have pedal tuners (well, the two people that need them, me and the bassist) so we have no horror stories about not having a tuner, we can just tune straight up and be cool.
But. While I've seen some bands look unprofessional by having to wait on one member to tune up, there was one time which was inexcusable and can easily force anyone to go out and buy a tuner!
Actually this story is good for many points about playing live. I'll sum up at the end!

Me and my bassist went down with a band we're friends with to see them gig at some pokey little venue (this was after I temped with said band cos they'd fired their guitarist. They patched up and had him back at this gig).
The guitarists and bassist had to borrow amps though, which I knew wouldn't go to plan. But after the soundcheck everything seemed pretty cool. No problems with anything really, they sounded good, were in tune, were with amps and everyone could be heard.

Gets to gig time, the band that played before them left with one of the amps so one of the guitarists had to go through this horrible little solid state amp which had a really sterile tone.
After this the band spends about 15 minutes all trying to tune to eachother (2 guitars, bass and saxophone).
Once this was over I thought "Ah, all is good now."
But no, in between every song at least 3 minutes was spent trying to remain in tune, or with someone complaining they can't hear something or someone.
Which looked pretty bad, considering they didn't sound too bad from the crowd, there were some obvious imperfections but it was easy to shove aside. Though the unprofessional behaviour and messing about ruined them.

Also, at the end of this gig, the frontman threw his guitar down and yelled "****ing guitar, never stays in tune" real loud. Which looked...well...not good.

This was ruined even more byt the fact two members were professional musicians.

So the moral of this story is:

Ensure you're in tune. A pedal tuner is the easiest way to do this.
Bring your own backline. Some would say "If you're sure you can borrow amps it's fine", but personally I'd never take the risk (when I temped for the previously mentioned band I was the only person at one of the gigs we played who had all my own gear).
Make sure that you don't half-ass the soundcheck. It can mess you up when actually playing the show.

I have a few more horror stories but I thought this was a nice all-in-one.
Last edited by Punk_Ninja at Feb 2, 2011,
#63
I'll just leave this here.

The soundman is your god. You want to make sure he likes you.
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one of the best, educated and logical posts I've ever seen on UG in the Pit. Well done good sir.
Last edited by FrustratedRocka at Feb 2, 2011,
#64
Quote by Bright Light
Thank you^. Someone gets what I was trying to say. I wanted to edit this example into my last post, but for some reason whenever I tried to post the edit the page froze up on me so here it is. This was meant to be an additional example to support my point.

EDIT (forgot to adress this with a practical example):

That's why if your whole band uses the same model of tuner you'll all
at least be tuned relative to eachother. Thats the whole point
of this idea. If you're all out 6 cents in one direction (and you
WILL all be out in the same direction, if you're all out in the
opposite direction you're idiots), then at least you're all equal
to eachother. If one is out 1 cent and the rest are out 6 cents,
there's your problem. You have to throw out the concept of perfect pitch and realize that in live situations relative pitch is what matters on the quick. In the studio there's really no excuse or reason not to use the same tuner.

/EDIT



I feel like you're not really grasping the way this works.

+/- 3 cents does not mean you will all be 3 cents sharp (therefor in tune relative to each other). It means the tuner can't get any more accurate than 3 cents in either direction.

So if we are both using a TU2, you might be 3 cents sharp and I could be 3 cents flat. So we are out of tune with each other by 6 cents.
#65
Forget the tuner thing. I'm obviously not making sense to anyone. Stick to what works for you, maybe someday someone here will sit down and what I'm saying will finally click.

As far as the piano example, if you re-read what I said you'll realize you regurgiated what I said. There was nothing there to disagree with me on about that. We both said the same thing about when introducing any equal temperament instrument that everyone must now be as close as possible to perfect pitch.

I'm not gonna de-rail this thread over this.

And remember, dont bring your bitches on tour.
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#66
Bright Light, sorry, but that really doesn't make any sense to me. I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make any sense. If someone had a tuner that was off +/- 2 cents and the other had a tuner that was off +/- 3 cents, they'd still be at most, 5 cents apart. If they both had the same tuner that was +/- 2 cents, they'd be at most 4 cents apart. Unless there's some dark forces at work, I honestly can't say your idea makes any sense.
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#67
^well thats exactly why im promoting the use of the same tuner for every band member.
Based on what you said, we're saying the same thing.

Maybe I should re-check my own syntax?

My entire point is that 2 guitars + bass in a band is better off all using the same model of tuner. Whether thats a TU-2 or whatever else.

This will result in much more consisten tuning within the whole band than to have one guy using a TU-2 another a Kord DT-10 another some Fender tuner and yet another a Polytune(nice tuners btw).

I'm sorry I didn't mean to have any attitude about this at all or even make the tuner thing as wordy as I did, I just thought I was clear enough in my first post and was mostly surprised because it seemed like people were misreading my post.
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#68
Just to add a spanner in the works (don't take this to fuel this little debate as I think it's slowly coming off topic now. Maybe make a new thread to discuss the use of multiple tuners in a band in the bandleading section if you wish to continue I think. ), in my band I use a polytune and my bassist uses a TU-2.

And we sound perfectly in tune with eachother.
Like, that is to everyone, crowds, people hearing us and ourselves (my bassist hasn't got trained ears or anything but me and my drummer regularly transcribe music and stuff, so our ears are a bit more tuned than the average person).

I think the whole "use the same tuner" thing only really matters if you're using low quality tuners.

This is without knowing any of the stuff about tuners. But I'd just say, get two accurate tuners, they'll be accurate enough with no heartbreak!
#69
Quote by ibanezgod1973
don`t drink alcohol or consume mind altering drugs (if you are into that crap) before your set. you will fumble most of the gig and you`ll get a reputation of amateur alcoholics or druggies, you will gain a bad reputation and will never be taken seriously.


I have to disagree with that. I can be completely trashed and can still play instruments accurately.

Most bands that you see live are either drunk/high/stoned/what have you.
#70
Quote by i_am_metalhead
I have to disagree with that. I can be completely trashed and can still play instruments accurately.

Most bands that you see live are either drunk/high/stoned/what have you.


I think that point really depends on the individual!

I myself couldn't perform at a good manner if I was drunk.
But some people just don't have their playing affected by booze.
#71
Quote by Punk_Ninja
I think that point really depends on the individual!

I myself couldn't perform at a good manner if I was drunk.
But some people just don't have their playing affected by booze.


That was my point. Ibanezwhatever was trying to say that no one should do anything before playing. Some people can handle it, some people can't.
#72
Quote by i_am_metalhead
I have to disagree with that. I can be completely trashed and can still play instruments accurately.

Most bands that you see live are either drunk/high/stoned/what have you.

Indeed. I used to play with a singer that refused to go on stage if the drummer and I weren't at least a little stoned - especially me. I couldn't blame him either, even I could tell that I played better stoned. My theory was that it was the whole goldfish in the maze thing in operation, we were always stoned when we rehearsed.
Different strokes for different folks. I can't play when I'm drunk to save my life, give me a few cones and my fingers come alive.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Feb 3, 2011,
#73
Quote by ibanezgod1973
don`t drink alcohol or consume mind altering drugs (if you are into that crap) before your set. you will fumble most of the gig and you`ll get a reputation of amateur alcoholics or druggies, you will gain a bad reputation and will never be taken seriously.


Meh, if I wasn't a few beers in my playing's very stiff and I focus pretty much on just getting the job done. Throw alcohol in the mix and you have fun, then everyone else has fun. You gotta remember, as a tiny band playing in the no-name slots on the bill, it's goddamned hard to make an impression without something to lubricate that.

The issue arrises when you're the only one in your band drinking/not drinking. If your the only sober one, you're gunna notice the little imperfections that are gunna throw the gig for you, if your the only one drunk the rest of the band will notice that. My old singer used to drive everywhere so me & the drummer would have a couple of pints and get a bit loosey-goosey before we went on, and then he'd moan that "we were wasted and didn't know what we were doing." Not saying it's all or nothing just make sure the record is set if you want a drink/something special before you play.
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#74
I only read the first couple of pages, so maybe this has been mentioned, but what I find useful is the 5-10 minutes before you go on ALWAYS keep tuning up. I remember in my old school band a like our second or third show I tuned up about ten minutes before we gone on and just left. Oh boy did our first song sound turd. My G string was way too flat and made chords and lead's sound awful. And then tuning it after the song was pretty embarrassing when there is a crowd waiting for the next song.

After that moment I pretty much kept tuning my guitar every minute five minutes before we gone on, so that it remained perfectly in tune. You might think that your guitar will be fine, but considering that the temperature in a live venue tends to be different than in your bedroom at home, you'll be surprised at how quickly your guitar will go out of tune if you don't keep tuning it before the show.
#75
I don't have a pedal board at the moment (I'm only using two pedals though), so I was planning on just taping my cables down to keep everything in place pretty well. My only question was that the cable I'm running to my guitar is one of the white telephone cord-style cables, and i wasn't sure if taping that down would work. Is it recommended?
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#76
Never piss off the soundman.

Here's an example.

A shitty band were playing at a local venue who were playing alongside my friends band. During their set they yelled - "Soundguy is shit, turn up the ****ing vocals!"

As you may have guessed this didn't go down well with the soundguy.

They were in the middle of playing killing in the name of.

Every 2 seconds you could here very quietly "**** you I won't" *MASSIVE feedback* " do what ya tell me"

This proceeded for the rest of the set. Needless to say, it was hilarious
Gear
Bugera 6262 Head
Harley Benton G212 Vintage
Ibanez RGA 121 Prestige
ESP LTD DJ600
Fender USA Stratecaster
Maxon O808
TC Electronic Flashback Delay
ISP Decimator
MXR 10 Band EQ
Boss T-U3 Tuner Pedal
#78
Go to hell if you do any of the following
A. show up late to a gig
B. show up without a tuner
C. not showing up at all.

bassists -_-

For any gigging musician: Keep it as simple as possible! Honestly, don't go for the amazing tones, go for simplicity that works. Nothing is worse than having no sound when you're supposed to go up, and you have to troubleshoot 20 things.

Guitars (+ backups), Amp, Cabinet, multi-effects, ground switcher. That's it for me. I don't want to waste time setting up, breaking down, or have things break on me without spare.
WTLTL 2011
Last edited by Mark G at Oct 3, 2011,
#79
Quote by Mark G
For any gigging musician: Keep it as simple as possible!

this.

saw a guy setting up for a show in a small club this weekend with 4 marshall 4x12 cabs, one head (right, i thought the same thing ), 6 guitars not counting his acoustic, a theramin, almost countless pedals with no board etc. even my gal suspected he was overstocked. i did my best to keep silent about it.

at the very most i bring a guitar, head, cab, tuner pedal and OD to small gigs. sometimes 2 guitars but have yet to use the second one.

i do have a repair kit tool box stocked with extra cables, tubes, strings, screwdrivers, gaffers tape and pliers in case of emergency though. because i bring the kit, i've never had to open it. i believe the first time i leave it at home, i'll regret it. i only play in a small club or parties etc though, for fun.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#80
Agreed with the simple thing.
I think the only place you should be allowed to go complex is your pedalboard (by which I mean an actual pedalboard, which is ready to go from the off, not 100 pedals which all need crazy methods of connection). Providing nothing's a failure risk then it should be all good.
Or maybe a 2 amp A/B setup, cos the only complications that brings is with the transport (of course if you're putting two band members gear in a small ford fiesta this is a no-no!).

Not that this applies to me right now, a small amp head and a 1x12 cab with 3-4 simple pedals.
Though I wouldn't mind an A/B amp setup one day, just need a job first...