Page 4 of 15
#121
Originally posted by mbroadst
Hey a quick question here (best thread EVAR btw), but does anyone here have experience using Eminence speakers? I was considering building a 2x12 cabinet (using dimensions for a 3/4 back Mesa Boogie 2x12), and I wanted to put some Eminence speakers in (as I have heard they are great quality for half the price of Celestions). Are they good speakers to use? Are the Celestions (or Peavey's) really worth 2x the price of an Eminence? Also Eminence has another speaker called the Legend Modelling 12, which is supposed to be very good for metal/hard rock (the style I will be playing in), would putting one of these Modelling 12's with 1 FS12 produce an interesting/effective sound, or is it not advisable to mix and match speakers? Thanks a lot for all this info, great job!
I have used Eminence speakers for a number of years now and always found them to be generaly good, reliable speakers, representing remarkable value for money.
I'm not so sure it is a good idea to mix speakers in the same cab though, normaly in a multi unit cab the different units cover different frequencies via a crossover.
I would stick with the same model if I were you.

G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#122
Originally posted by mbroadst
Hey a quick question here (best thread EVAR btw), but does anyone here have experience using Eminence speakers? I was considering building a 2x12 cabinet (using dimensions for a 3/4 back Mesa Boogie 2x12), and I wanted to put some Eminence speakers in (as I have heard they are great quality for half the price of Celestions). Are they good speakers to use? Are the Celestions (or Peavey's) really worth 2x the price of an Eminence? Also Eminence has another speaker called the Legend Modelling 12, which is supposed to be very good for metal/hard rock (the style I will be playing in), would putting one of these Modelling 12's with 1 FS12 produce an interesting/effective sound, or is it not advisable to mix and match speakers? Thanks a lot for all this info, great job!

For a guitar cab yes?

I love eminence speakers, lots of their speakers are extremely good at what they do and are built like tanks. I would probably avoid for a Modelling speaker unless you are using a Line 6 or similar with cabinet simulation built in. Otherwise it will sound like like pre-amp direct into the mixing desk and won't have any meat to it. Unless you like that tone. Modelling speakers are basically hard wearing hi-fi speakers, they don't really colour tone much.

For metal try a Wizard. They are great for just about everything and have numerous fans.

About mixing speakers: again I would say avoid it. Some great tones can be had through combinations. However you won't know what will sound good until you spend the money. Then you may be stuck with two speakers that are fighting and will sound terrible. If you can afford to try numerous speakers then go for it! General rules are try to get speakers of similar wattage and sensitivity. Also the "woofer and tweeter" combos normallly work well. (IE getting 1 really bassy speaker and one thats really bright) but you can't really calculate what it will sound like until they are in the cabinet.

For sale: Early 1985 Ibanez AH10 (Allan Holdsworth signature model) PM for details
#123
Thanks a lot, but one more quick question here.. I have two amps at home that I use for practice, one is a Peavey Basic 60 with an 8ohm 75watt 12" speaker in it, and then a Peavey Classic 30 with a 12" 16ohm 75watt speaker in it. My question is, should I use either of these speakers in the new cab, or were they probably tweaked just for the amp they are in, and also what is the difference between the 16ohm and 8ohm speakers? I have read somewhere that the Blue Marvel used in the Classic 30 is tweaked especially for the classic 30, but I couldn't tell if that was a credible source. One last thing, do you agree with my decision to use the 3/4 back on it? MesaBoogie claims that it provides better tone as well as overall acoustic loudness, either way it looks cool I suppose Thanks a lot for your help.
#124
Just incase anyone happens to be reading this right now, I found a pair of Eminence 12" Alpha 12's (150W) for sale for $70, how much quality difference is there between these and a speaker from the Legend series, or the Wizard?
#125
I appologize for the flood of questions, but I've just found myself with a window of opportunity to build this thing, and I'm trying to take advantage of that. My friend has decided to lend me the Eminence Alpha 12's to build the cabinet. Have you ever heard of a 2x12 with 300watts? Is this going to be incredibly difficult to figure out dimensions for?
#126
Originally posted by mbroadst
I appologize for the flood of questions, but I've just found myself with a window of opportunity to build this thing, and I'm trying to take advantage of that. My friend has decided to lend me the Eminence Alpha 12's to build the cabinet. Have you ever heard of a 2x12 with 300watts? Is this going to be incredibly difficult to figure out dimensions for?

For guitar there is little to worry about regarding acoustics, as unlike bass guitar cabs resonant tuning is not really a problem, many guitarists prefer an open back cab though. Regarding dimensions just build a cab on the lines of a 2 x 12 combo.
The Eminence Alpha series are just normal ferrite magnet speakers if you look up the Eminence web site you will find the info on them. Don't go for higher wattage speakers as they also have larger voice coils that require more energy (Watts) to drive them.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#127
I have zero experience with Eminence. Celestion is just the industry standard (it's like the Chevy of speakers.)

A 16 ohm speaker is going to carry twice the imedence, meaning it will be half as loud per wattage on your amp as a similarly-sized 8 ohm speaker. If you mix them, the one with lower impedence (the 8 ohm) will carry the brunt of the power and thus will break down sooner.

edit: think about electricity as water. If you pop two holes in a can full of water, one big and one small, the big hole is going to carry twice the load of the small hole. A low impedence = a big hole. At least if you go with the ever-popular electricity-as-water analogy.



I suspect you'll get a whole lot of sound out of one speaker and you'll have another that isn't even moving enough to produce a good tone for you. conclusion? Don't bother with the 16-ohm speaker unless you have two of them. (Two wired in parallel would form an 8-ohm pair.)
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#128
But two 12" speakers at 150watts a piece won't need more energy to drive it than a 4x12 cab with 4 speakers rating out at ~350-400watts total will it? So putting a head that can handle two 1500watt 8ohm speakers in parallel (this should be 16ohms impedence correct?) will be just fine for this setup? Cheers
#129
Originally posted by mbroadst
But two 12" speakers at 150watts a piece won't need more energy to drive it than a 4x12 cab with 4 speakers rating out at ~350-400watts total will it? So putting a head that can handle two 1500watt 8ohm speakers in parallel (this should be 16ohms impedence correct?) will be just fine for this setup? Cheers
A 2 x 12 will require less energy to drive it than a 4 x 12 using the same speakers, but remember a 4 x 12 with 25/50 watt speakers will have smaller voice coils than those in 150 watt speakers
Two 8 ohm speakers in parallel will give you 4 ohms, in series they will give 16 ohms.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#130
Right but does that mean I am going to have to find a 300watt amplifier just to drive the full power of this box? I replied asking about the comparison to the 4x12 cabinet in terms of the voice coil... you said that the 150watt speakers will require more power because of the voice coils, but I was saying that although that may be the case should this 2x12 with 2 150watt speakers in it need more power than say a 4x12 cabinet with 4 75watt speakers? I'm basically trying to figure out if this setup is feasible, and whether it's going to end up being some sort of money pit because it will be incredibly difficult to drive the speakers inside of it. Thanks
#131
You want to overshoot on amp power, not speaker power. If you drive 300 W of speakers with a 50 W amp you're likely to blow something.

If you do it the other way around, the 50 W speakers will probably surprise you and handle 75 or even 100 W. Further, they will start to distort before they fail, whereas an underpowered amp will just die. Suddenly.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#132
Ah so then yes I am screwed? That means in my case even a 100w amp is going to blow almost immediately? Should that be the case it looks like I could buy a whole new stack for the price of a single 300watt head
#133
Originally posted by mbroadst
Ah so then yes I am screwed? That means in my case even a 100w amp is going to blow almost immediately? Should that be the case it looks like I could buy a whole new stack for the price of a single 300watt head
Depends on how hard you drive it. These are general guidelines, but basically a speaker is less likely to experience permanent damage or failure than an amp in an overdriven situation.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#134
Continuing the research here! So I understand my predicament to be that my dual 150 watt speakers will try to draw too much power from a (let's say) 100 watt amplifier. But looking to other examples of a 2x12 speakers I found the specs for a Fender Twin to include 2 x 12" Jensen C-12K speakers, which rate at 100watts rms, however, the amp on the fender twin is only 85watts into 4ohms, which would seem to imply that maybe my idea isn't so crazy at all? It would seem that the output of the amplifier does not directly translate to the wattage of the speakers? or is this just a case of what you (bubonic) were previously referring to as overdriving the amplifier?
#135
dude that was awesome i just recently bought a spider II 212 and after i bought it i realized for 200 bucks more i coulda got the spider II half stack but now im just goin to build my own, great thread though man
My Rig:
LTD Truckster
Washburn Dime 333
Peavey 6505+ Head
THD Hot PLate (Coming Soon)
Avatar 4x12 Cab
Line 6 Spider II 212
Peavey Studio Pro 110
Dunlop Cry Baby From Hell
Tech-21 XXL Overdrive Pedal
Boss HM-2 Distortion Pedal
#136
Originally posted by mbroadst
Continuing the research here! So I understand my predicament to be that my dual 150 watt speakers will try to draw too much power from a (let's say) 100 watt amplifier.

The speakers don't draw the power, it is like a lhigher wattage light bulb, it's the power required to drive them.

.But looking to other examples of a 2x12 speakers I found the specs for a Fender Twin to include 2 x 12" Jensen C-12K speakers, which rate at 100watts rms, however, the amp on the fender twin is only 85watts into 4ohms, which would seem to imply that maybe my idea isn't so crazy at all?.

Is this a new Fender twin that you are refering too are an old model?

. It would seem that the output of the amplifier does not directly translate to the wattage of the speakers? or is this just a case of what you (bubonic) were previously referring to as overdriving the amplifier?

The wattage rating of speakers is given by the manufacturer, anyone can give a speaker a wattage rating, what really counts is the performance ie :- sound pressure levels SPL and the size of the voice coil!
A speaker with a low senstivity and high wattage rating will take more watts to drive it than a more efficient speaker of a lower wattage.
If you go back to the original Blue Celestions in the Vox amps they were only 15 watts with 1" voice coils, in the early 60s Marshall 4 x 12s the Celestions were only 25 watts with 1" voice coils.
The only logical solution for you is to go on the speaker manufacturers site and check out the speakers, their advised applications and performance, most manufacturers do this today.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#137
A few examples:
Fender Twin:
85watts into 2 x 12" Jensen C12K 100watt speakers
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--FEN0217300000

Laney Tony Iommi half stack:
Head: GH100TI @ 100watt valve amp
Cab: GS412LA - 4 x 12" 80 watt custom speakers = 320watts

Peavey Triple XXX:
Head: Triple XXX Head @ 120watts
Cab: Triple XXX Cab (slant/straight) - this is a little weird but they claim 400 watts continuous, although the speakers themselves claim 200watt peak, 100watt program, 50watt continuous

Anyway, it seems like all three of these setups have ~100watt amplifiers hooked up to more than 100watts of speakers.
#138
Originally posted by mbroadst
A few examples:
Fender Twin:
85watts into 2 x 12" Jensen C12K 100watt speakers
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--FEN0217300000

Laney Tony Iommi half stack:
Head: GH100TI @ 100watt valve amp
Cab: GS412LA - 4 x 12" 80 watt custom speakers = 320watts

Peavey Triple XXX:
Head: Triple XXX Head @ 120watts
Cab: Triple XXX Cab (slant/straight) - this is a little weird but they claim 400 watts continuous, although the speakers themselves claim 200watt peak, 100watt program, 50watt continuous

Anyway, it seems like all three of these setups have ~100watt amplifiers hooked up to more than 100watts of speakers.
All of theses amps are tube powered which is an all new ball game regarding power compared to solid state amps. Bubonic will no doubt explain the ins and outs of tube versus solid state.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#139
Originally posted by mbroadst
Anyway, it seems like all three of these setups have ~100watt amplifiers hooked up to more than 100watts of speakers.
These amps are probably multi-channel. If your cabinet is 2X12" and 150 Watts total on a 100 Watt amp, that amp may be (probably is) two channels, each driving a 75 Watt speaker or speaker system.

My home stereo is a 100 Watt amplifier hooked up to four 100 Watt speakers. How? It's a 4-channel amp. It is not, however, a 400 watt amp. It's basically 4 100 Watt amps, and each is going to have discreet wiring on the circuit board, independent transistors or tubes, independent caps and resistors, everything.

Most guitar amps are two channel.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#140
I want to build a 10x12....
I had my hands in the river,
My feet back up on the bank,
Looked up to the Lord above and said,
"Hey man, Thanks"


Dr. Spinnerbait of the UG Fishermans Club. PM Joe-Fish to join.
#141
Fine.

Build an 80X12.

As long as you arrange the circuitry right.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#142
Originally posted by Sqeeezie
I want to build a 10x12....

You'll get a lot of help on this site if you are sensible, if not you'll attract deserved abuse!
For so many reasons a 10 x 12" makes no sense at all and I'm sure that you know that yourself.

G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#143
i think the time has come for this thread to be closed and archived

"Anytime but now
Anywhere but here
Anyone but me
I've got to think about my own life
The world is not our facility
We have a responsibility
To use our abilities to keep this place alive," said ian mackaye
#144
I have outlined a couple of porting options, but figured it's time to talk about the others (in layman's terms) and what the advantages/differences are...

No port: The advantage here is there is no math required, and as long as you have solid construction and a sufficiently large cabinet (resonance below 40 Hz), you should be okay. It's the easiest, but least efficient method. If you've got plenty of power, who cares?

Circular port: Makes for a more efficient speaker cab, but unfortunately features both a resonance peak and an impedance peak. Thus it has to be "tuned" to operate at optimal levels. Doing this requires maths. *pulls out hair*

Passive radiator: basically a dummy speaker. Like the circular port it has a resonance peak. It's an older method that few people use anymore. One problem I discovered when using it was noise from the passive cone moving too violently. Adding resistance around the inside of it helps. I folded household insulation into dense little squares and placed them between the cone and the metal chassy. This of course reduced the effectiveness of the port.

Adding insulation to the inside of your cab helps improve the performance overall. If you can do it, then by all means do. It won't hurt. This is called "batting," and works pretty much like cieling or wall insulation. Just cover every square inch, as much as you can. Resonance is reduced, vibrations are controlled, you are adding mass, etc. Have some fuzzy shit you can staple to the inside of the bastard? Good. Do it.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#145
ok youve talked me into building my own cab, and while im building that im building a guitar to, ill probably be back here with questions when school starts as thats probably when im gonna start on both
#146
Building a cab is doable. Thing is, if you screw it up (except for the wiring) you can just tear it up and start over.

"Oh well, shitty design..."

But building a guitar is a real challenge. To learn how to build a proper axe takes experience, meaning you have to build at least two or three crap ones before you can even begin to understand what goes into making a good one. Good luck anyway, but I've seen a friend go through luthiery school. He's good at it now, but did indeed build a sucky guitar his first time out. Everyone does.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#148
Originally posted by Bubonic Chronic
Building a cab is doable. Thing is, if you screw it up (except for the wiring) you can just tear it up and start over.

"Oh well, shitty design..."

But building a guitar is a real challenge. To learn how to build a proper axe takes experience, meaning you have to build at least two or three crap ones before you can even begin to understand what goes into making a good one. Good luck anyway, but I've seen a friend go through luthiery school. He's good at it now, but did indeed build a sucky guitar his first time out. Everyone does.


Yeah, very true. I just finished my amp. It is beautiful. Sounds awesome. Thanks, man, I would have never done it if you had not of told me a lot of stuff.
#149
you built an amp and didn't make a thread? git. i would have liked to see that as we lost powerfreak's!
#150
Originally posted by sillybuuger12
you built an amp and didn't make a thread? git. i would have liked to see that as we lost powerfreak's!


Haha, it's just a 1X12 amp. I'll post some pics and give some do and don'ts. I didn't make everything either. I bought a poweramp, speaker, and preamp, but I(I meaning me and my brother who is very handy with wood. He taught me everything I know about woodworking) made the box. It is pretty hot and LOUD.
#151
Ok for making just an amp cab i could buy a speaker make the housing and then wire the speaker to an input jack then buy a head and use that for adjusting how it sounds right?
#153
Originally posted by metallicaman80
Haha, it's just a 1X12 amp. I'll post some pics and give some do and don'ts. I didn't make everything either. I bought a poweramp, speaker, and preamp, but I(I meaning me and my brother who is very handy with wood. He taught me everything I know about woodworking) made the box. It is pretty hot and LOUD.
That's the way I do it with my Bass rigs, I can tailor them to suit my requirements, and save a lot of money as well.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#154
whats a good speaker that will compliment the sound of eminence's private jack it needs to be 5' because its going to go in a small practice amp im going to use as a head also for anyone that wants to know about the cab im building its going to use 3 private jacks (all i can afford i wish i could get 4) and a modified ibz 10g which is what im going to put the speaker into also will putting a new speaker into this amp make it sound better and if not what will it do
#155
Uhh, sorry to be dumb, but I am assuming youre driving the cab with a head right? And not plugging it inot the back of a combo.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#157
Originally posted by godofshred
hm..i may be getting a cab with celestin rocket 50's in it..are they decent celestions?
Never heard of them.

Are you sure you can't find reviews somewhere? Usually cats will rate materials like that for you. Try Musicians Friend.

Far as I know, the standard Celestions they put in the Marshalls are about $90 a cone.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."